Asteroids and Half Miles
 

If you search what made the dinosaur extinct, you’ll find a theory about an asteroid hitting the earth as a possible cause to their elimination. Thankfully, I haven’t heard anything about an asteroid heading our way anytime soon, but it’s starting to look like half mile tracks could be going the way of the Triceratops. I saw it mentioned before last night, but if you watched the High Limit show from I-70 you heard about the plan’s to shorten yet another big track. A couple other recent occurrence’s of this nature that come to mind is Hartford Michigan, and Joliet Illinois, two big tracks that were cut down to smaller ovals. I’m old enough to remember when the United States Auto Club only ran half miles or bigger. I don’t remember exactly when they started running smaller tracks, but I thought it was a cool change of pace on the bullrings, a different style of racing. But now I find myself longing for the big tracks again after watching mostly something smaller than a half for a long time now. I’m not saying I have anything against the smaller tracks, I love ‘em, just miss that speed sometimes. I know everyone has excuses why we can’t run a big track, but in actuality, motor’s blow and people crash on all size race tracks. And racing ain’t cheap, regardless. I don’t know about you, but unlike T-Rex, I’m going to miss the big tracks if they leave

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Don't know where I read it or seen it. Someone said USAC used to not run under half miles and the 305 limit was more than adequate because you didn't need a giant gear to get off the corner and didn't turn 9000 save maybe at the end of the straights. Used to hear former car owners that said regular trips to the junkyard kept them in motors. they'd just swap the cam intake and headers.

Me, I like speed. Nothing like a sprint car breathing fire. That short track slick stuff gets old real quick. I don't mind it if theres more than one groove. But too often it's all catfish.

I went back in history and picked a year where USAC only raced on 1/2 mile or longer tracks. I randomly picked 1979 because that was what came up when I opened the page. In that year USAC Sprint cars ran 39 points races, 20 of which were on dirt. Those 20 races were contested on 7 tracks: THAT, Eldora, Sharon (OH) Speedway, US 131 Speedway in Martin MI, Indiana State Fairgrounds, Reading PA, and New Bremen OH. Of those 7 tracks, only 3 remain in operation, THAT, Eldora And Sharon, OH., and USAC races on two of those.

Fast forward to today…A quick internet search listed no 1/2 mile dirt tracks CURRENTLY operating in IL, 1 in KY (Florence) none in MI and 3 in OH, Millstream, Eldora and Sharon, and honestly, I’m not sure Sharon is still a 1/2 mile. There just aren’t that many 1/2 mile dirt tracks operating in the Midwest anymore.

Kyle Larson is afraid of half miles so if you follow his low limit series he’ll try to indoctrinate you into wings and small tracks. I for one have a brain and can obviously see non-wing at Terre Haute and the other dinosaur tracks completely blow away his stupid series that the sheep follow. Please don’t make me take the L out of your name and join the enlightened lol.

Illinois does have one Knoxville but the only race scheduled this year rained out and the future is shakey. Iowa has 4 half miles and Kansas has 2 great ones that are currently on the Silver Crown schedule.

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Portsmouth is Eldora Sized. Waynesfield is 3/8. Atomic 3/8th. Not sure what wayne county is. But Ohio's got a few bigger tracks.

Slight correction, when Sheldon Kinser won the USAC Sprint car race at Sharon in 1979 the track was still paved.

From what I can find the first USAC Sprint Car race on less than a 1/2 mile was July 22 1981 at Kokomo with Tom Bigelow the winner. I recall the number of USAC sprint car races had been on a slow but steady decline for several years so racing on the smaller tracks became a necessity. Below is the number of USAC races around that timeframe. Despite the inclusion of the smaller tracks, the number of races didn't really improve mainly due to the decline of pavement races. The ESPN Thunder races brought the paved tracks back for a while but even then the number of races barely improved.

1977 - 51
1978 - 40
1979 - 39
1980 - 24
1981 - 21
1982 - 26
1983 - 17
1984 - 20
1985 - 27
1986 - 11
1987 - 14
1988 - 20
1989 - 20
1990 - 29
1991 - 24
1992 - 18
1993 - 19
1994 - 27

This year USAC put together a great schedule and I believe were on track to have 50+ races but unfortunately there have been 12 rainouts or cancellations. So far 40 points races have been run with 4 more to go.

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Bill Lipkey of Kokomo Speedway had pushed for the move to 1/4 miles for the sprint car for several years

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

This made me laugh! "low limit series"!

& here, I've been wondering if USAC was gona need to go back to wings...

Btw, this whole thread is COOL! Lots of talk, with facts and figures, just from regular posters, who have good information and research. Very informative.

Certainly, a low number of races in 86/87! Wow. Where there a few rainouts???

WoO ran some non-wing races I think when it 1st started, but were there some other legitimate series around that ran some non-wing events too? As far as pavement, there has always been the Little500, but was there a series like the current pavement non-wing series in the mid-west around this time? (I gather there were a number of pavement non-wing races in FL for some time).

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

cost aside, half mile races are normally just not as good. Most of those races are very predictable. They become very "one lane". No matter what the series, most 1/2 are won by the big drivers. You do not see as many upsets. Just my opinion. I was raised on bull rings.

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

I-96 Speedway was actually on the path of a great idea, IMO. Back before the turn of the century they had a 1/4 mile flat track completely within the 1/2 mile track, with the exception of using a little bit of the front straight. There was an All Stars race there in the mid-90s where the big track could not be prepped in time due to early rain so they used the 1/4 mile track and it was actually a great show. IRA Sprints were there, too, and they had like 56-60 cars running. So the 1/4 mile track was suited for sprints. Joey Saldana won it.

Ownership then changed, if I recall, and the 1/4 track was abandoned and essentially 'plowed under'. Then in the early 00s they decided to make a 3/8 mile banked track within the 1/2 mile while using the front stretch, Turns 1 and 2, and the back stretch. but they kept the 1/2 mile track intact and used it for big WoO shows for a few years. The problem they saw, though, was that the exit of Turn 4 on the 3/8 mile track was compromising the exit of Turn 4 on the big track. The banking on the inner track was the issue. It essentially made Turn 4 on the big track very narrow and the cars had to go to the wall to avoid the 'hump', so to speak. After a few years, new ownership again I think, the big track was abandoned and went to the current status that it is now. But this initial thinking was actually good, it was just the implementation that did not work.

Hartford on the other hand just threw in the towel and cut a flat wide swath across the infield for a new Turn 3 and 4 as they shortened the 1/2 mile to a 3/8 mile. Never even pursued keeping both.

However my point is it would have been very nice for the fans for both tracks to keep both the big track and the small track. But it is not my money nor is it my decision. Now that it is all said and done I am just glad they didn't just flat out pull the plug on either or both tracks and close down.

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

As a person that has attended most of the races at I-70, this was an absolute requirement. The track at I-70 was too fast. The racing there was absolutely a bore. Most nights the person that led the first lap would lead all of the laps. There was never a time that I remember a position being traded back and forth. Usually, once a pass was made the person would check out from the passed car.

The newness of I-70 has worn off and it was needing to produce great racing to keep people to keep coming out. With the current configuration, it was not conducive to great racing. I applaud the track for recognizing an issue and moving to fix it. I look forward to attending races there again in 2025.

Have you seen the Crown cars on half miles this year?

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Same deal down here in Texas. Not many half miles to begin with. Lonestar, up in Kilgore was a high banked half. Never got to a race there in that configuration. I have shot a couple of races up there at the shortened (3/8 mile) track. Pretty racy, but the old turns 1 and 2 are (or were) still there beyond the shortened track, teasing with what might have been. I think that, like so many Texas tracks, it has shut down now.

Throwback, there’s no risk of that happening and watching HL, or any other wing series is not going to convert me to winging it. I do watch all I can of all of it. I agree and that’s the point of the thread. Nothing better than wingless at Terre Haute

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

I really don't notice it as much on the quarter miles but at THAT And Burg I do. Watch Bacon and some of the others cars just launch down the back straight while others are fishtailing or drifting towards the wall. Standing in the infield at THAT gave me a whole new view of it several years back. Brady's car and formerly BC's cars seemed to just jump.

I did notice it at Tri State with Casey Riggs driving for Dutcher Car just launched down the straight.

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Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Thats pretty insulting.... he isn't scared of those giant NASCAR tracks at 200 mph, is he? I know he doesn't do wingless sprint cars any more (wish he would!), but I saw him win twice in a wingless sprint car on a 1/2 mile, at Oskaloosa.
I personally wouldn't dare race any kind of sprint car on any kind of track, & I don't see where you get off questioning the courage of a GREAT driver :7:

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Thats perfectly cool, to each his own. I prefer wingless too, but living on the East Coast, I have no choice but to enjoy wingers as well. Pretty sure you live in Indiana, right? You can get all the wingless action you could ask for... count your blessings! :23:

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

I've been to Terre Haute twice, rained out both times (same for Gas City)
One of these days...
This summer I finally got to see "Lets Race 2" at Eldora, big 1/2 mile, wingers & traditional both. I prefer small tracks, but enjoyed the hell out of ALL the races! :22:

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

After further thought, I'll answer some of my own question...I remember reading that ISW was not part of the USAC schedule; maybe til later in those years posted? (or right after?). &, could it be said the CRA sprint car series was actually more popular in those years than it is now? Also, were there more weekly tracks running traditional sprints back then?

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Furthermore, I'm sure you know Larson swept all the classes at big fast 1/2 mile Eldora when he was a young'un.... & he had a pretty serious accident in a wingless car a few years later.
He's not scared of 1/2 miles, I'm pretty sure his NASCAR team made him stop racing wingless 410s. They've been pretty cool about letting him race any other kind of dirt track events. But they have to protect their investment....
Hell, I think anybody even racing a 305 Race Saver has plenty of balls :8:

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

No balls??? https://www.google.com/search?client...LUixFNSNg,st:0

Exactly! You were way easier on him than I would’ve been but I just chalked it up to him being drunk

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Yes you get a few good races, but you get far more snoozers. I will agree with you, I think the crown cars do very good on 1/2's. At the same time, you cannot race these cars every single weekend. I have watched most of the Lucas Oil Late Model, HiLimit, and USAc sprint races this year. Most of the snoozers are the big tracks. You get passing on the initial start and on restarts. Most of the time when they get to traffic they are so strung out the traffic does not matter. On the tracks where it does matter, majority of the time the caution comes out just as the leader is getting slowed up by the traffic.

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Yet he is a three time Knoxville Nationals champion. He loves Port Royal and has multiple victories there. Kings Royal winner at Eldora. Ran and liked the Bristol dirt races. We could go on but no reason too.

If Larson is so afraid of half miles, how is it he’s raced at and won at Knoxville Iowa, one of the fastest half miles in the country, two of the last 3 years?

If Larson is so afraid of half miles, how is it he’s raced at and won at Knoxville Iowa, one of the fastest half miles in the country, two of the last 3 years?

I would say he is referencing Larson in a non wing car. He hasn't gone topless on a half mile since getting his bell wrung at Eldora years ago!

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

I’m guessing neither of you watched the documentary about dirt racing where he said racing without a wing isn’t worth it??? Then Sweet comes on and says the same thing. Please don’t turn this thread into another how great Larson is thread. Please.

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Back when Smoke still had a non wing team, USAC raced Terre Haute and had a low car count. Smoke said get the backup out. I'll race it.
Afterwards he said it's the stupidest thing he's ever done.

I took it as he meant it. That to do it. You gotta be committed to it and now that he was beyond that (Nascar, Winged racing at that time) It was just not worth the risk.

Nevermind that Larson, Smoke, Sweet, Newman, Briscoe, Gordon etc honed their skill non winged for several years before getting the backing to move on. Not just on half miles. But Miles.

Nascar's been full of USAC Champions for decades now. Shame Indycar can't figure it out.

There were a LOT of factors in play in the middle 80’s. The WoO was growing at an extremely rapid rate…big fields, big money and big crowds. Many local tracks were switching from non-winged to winged sprint cars. USAC was struggling to attract new owners and drivers and they polled their owners, drivers and promoters to see what they wanted. It was ultimately decided that the track promoter could decide whether their race (dirt only) would be winged or non-winged.

ISW was INITIALLY (IF I remember correctly) 3 races, Bloomington, LPS and Kokomo. It was unsanctioned. Paragon was added shortly after, but it would be about 8 years or so before USAC would begin sanctioning ISW.

CRA was arguably NEARLY USAC’s equal, and in the middle 80’s maybe even more prominent than USAC. HOWEVER, they too began to struggle and the loss of Ascot in 1990 was a blow that they couldn’t recover from. The formation of the SCRA in 1993 extended their run, until they were merged with USAC. The races in the Midwest by the CRA/SCRA were some of the best races in history IMO. Some were co-sanctioned by USAC, some weren’t, but they almost all pulled huge fields.

During the 80’s, to the best of my recollection, the tracks running sprint cars weekly in IN were Bloomington, Warsaw (Friday’s) Paragon, LPS, Lawrenceburg(Saturday’s) Tri-State and Kokomo(Sundays). At various times through the 80’s they ran winged shows weekly and non winged.

Not sure if this answers you question jdull99, but hopefully it gives you some background

Re: Asteroids and Half Miles
 

Great answer! Good info. Thanks. I shoulda added SCRA too...I forgot about the CRA/SCRA "changeover". Interesting era with all that...thankfully, USAC Sprint car racing has been very strong in recent years. I kinda hated to see the pavement fall off for both the sprints and midgets, but it had to (with the differences in the cars). I am glad I got to grow up following it the way it was though (mid-90s...another of the golden ages, for many types of racing; in my mind).