Burg Crowd
 

I do not remember in my lifetime a smaller crowd than at Lawrenceburg tonight! I do not know the promotor but I feel for him!

Re: Burg Crowd
 

To everyone who complained about a decision made yesterday - tonight is why people who have their money on the line make the choices they do.

Yup, sure promoter took a bath on this one, even though the Midget purse is not that great.

Good race though.

Wednesday night race, looked like rain all day. Track had a lot going against them today but on a positive note, very efficient program and all races were great.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Yep, both Features were fun!:22:

Tonight was exactly why Circle City cancelled last night. People complain when they cancel, but look at all the people that didn’t go tonight.
On a side note…the racing tonight was great. Not good…GREAT. The High Limit race was GREAT as well. The Burg has been really good as of late. 🤘 to the promoter. They’re doing a good job there.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Ain't no wonder about half the CRA tracks threw FLO out including one of the highest Non Wing paying races.

I could say something but I won't.

What I will say is DON'T BLAME ME WHEN YOUR FAVORITE TRACK CLOSES.
Also, Thanks to Shane and crew, all the racers for coming and putting on a show for us. I did my part.

That was great racing and fun and if you told me Id of been able to get a back straight parking spot even after the races started. I wouldn't have believed you. As it was I sat with my 80yr old father and our race club president and had a great time and didn't smoke for 2.5 hrs. Did grab me one of those great Cheesyburgers before going into the stands though.

Five minutes after Leary was pushed out of victory lane steady rain came. Half my trip home was in monsoon 40mph tops driving, I thought my transmission was slipping but it was wheel spin hydroplane.

I’m sure streaming is a small factor Charles, but to me it’s more the weather app. The app I use is pretty accurate, but it had it wrong today. Yesterday my forecast for Lawrenceburg had 💯 chance of rain. Today it changed to 90. I’m not taking that chance if I’m more than an hour away, whether or not I can watch at home

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Actually the very first midget week race was at the OLD burg on a monday night and it was attended by less than tonight.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

I agree to a point, but I've been down there dozens of times with lightning on the hill tops around the track and seen a complete show. That bend in the river at Aurora tends to split a lot of storms . Still we just got it in. I was like, What, no four wide parade lap, We're going racing? they knew an even had the sprint feature pushed onto the track while midget interviews were underway.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

I was there and wondered where the crowd was

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Hopefully the track got more than $500 from FLO...

Re: Burg Crowd
 

I had several things to consider on top of the weather. It all stacked up as the gamble was not worth the trip.

It was great racing, GREAT.

CJ and Ricky really went at it

Still surprised that as a big metropolitan area that it is that’s all of the Midget people that cared enough to even show up?


Assuming a Late Model show would have filled the stands regardless of weather forecast .

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Central and Southern Ohio is Late Model country as well as KY, had been long before I got to OH in the early nineties from central PA. My first 10 years here I was working a job I never got off for weekends or holidays so I never saw much racing but once I changed careers I started going and Late Models is what it was. Considering how much I hated Late Models as a kid growing up in PA during the eighties I quickly grew to love them all though there is a soft part in my heart for Winged Sprints which outside of KC/Atomic was mostly northern OH.

I really have grown to like wingless racing better (both midgets and sprints) thanks to some influences that beat into my head back in my heavy racing days that wingless was the answer to the ballooning costs of winged sprint racing where a smaller budget team can be competitive. That influence has since those days has been made to look mostly correct on that, they also used to go on and on about funfest at Lawrenceburg which I never had the chance to go to. I would of loved to go last night but mid week shows can be hard for me, I try to save those for the sprint speedweek (had a blast last year) all though midgets are a lot of fun and that was a great race last night.

I feel really bad for the promoter and I hope they got some money from FLO but this also showed me that is the weather is iffy for a weekend show everywhere and I wanted to gamble on one track to travel too (about 2 hours for me) this would be one of them.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Streaming is not the issue...not even a little bit. Was at the HL show, packed, and it was on Flo. There is a larger issue at play here and nobody wants to admit it, and it has nothing to do with rain, Flo, fans, promotor, drivers, teams....

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Do tell ole wise one!

The promotor did what “ real” promotors do. He ran the show ( quickly I might add) knowing in advance rain was in the forecast. He did not cancel the day before or days before as has become the norm for race promotors. Knowing the promotor will do all he can to run the event should have lasting effects for fans, car owners, drivers, etc.

Remember rain was in the forecast all day, and it was a Tuesday night, and it was on FLO.

Sorry, “Wednesday night”

The ‘burg has almost always been a Saturday night track. Tried some Wednesday night late model races back in the day. Did not work. Ran a Friday night WoO race in ‘78 or ‘79 and broke even. The fact that they ran the show against all odds shows their determination to get the show in if possible.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

My first real thought was. "THEY CALL THEMSELVES RACE FANS"? All Midget week is a excuse to party and I bet there was four times the people already setup camped at LPS watching it on FLO than at the Burg for the race.

BUT, It was a doomsday forecast. Too many it would have cost a couple hundred in fuel etc to travel for what probably wouldn't get completed or even maybe started. The race wasn't on the original schedule. Wouldn't even surprised me if a few didn't show up at Gas City. It was a Weds. Work night.

Me, Im a hour away, if it doesn't get in, I got that arm band to use for one of three more USAC races. Im only out a quarter tank on a night I'd of been watching TV or Youtube or something and not have to worry about work the next day if they were to get done late, or not at all.

That being said, I can't be upset with whatever choice people made. Can only thank those who came. I Know the Cordings made it from England and someone stopped by as I was talking to the flagman afterward and said they came from three hours away.

Id be pushing to say there were 500 people there (Which may include the pits). Normal shows are probably 800 or better. Shane not only ran the show, he had the concessions fully staffed, gates fully staffed The track was IMPECCABLY PREPPED and has been, the only blip I've seen in the track was that first USAC show where it got a couple holes in the bottom of 3-4 The racing was awesome. From guys comin off low to drivers like Seavey pullin his best Rico Impression of running it straight into the fluff and keeping the pedal down.

No amount of atta boys can make up for the hole in the Promoters bank account.

But I sure hope you'll show some love by attending Sprint week, The Staab Memorial and Fall Nationals. Your out there. The Spring Usac show showed that. For startup, probably the best run, prepped and speedy show I've ever seen.

Chuck. Who ranks that up with the first Midget Week show (Old burg with the new main grandstand), The first Blue Collar bash at Eldora With Sprints and LM's. The cancelled but still run and fully paid LIberty Indiana show as the biggest baths promoters have taken.

I remember that liberty show fiasco, what a night. I was surprised at the low car counts and fan attendance last night, but the weather looked terrible. I went since it’s the closest on the schedule and was texting with a friend who was watching on flo. They didn’t take their sprint down due to weather forecast. He was watching the radar while the midget feature was running and couldn’t believe it wasn’t raining there as the radar showed the track solidly in the green. It was a pretty racey night though esp for the lead in both classes.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

First I could not go due to daughter having basketball games. Who knew high school basketball actually starts in June? Thats another story.

I did watch the race when I got home. Darn good job by the track to get that event in. I just hope the hit was not to bad, but I'm afraid it was a 5 figure hit. Racing was GREAT, wish I could have been there.

So lets look at a few downers:
Usac Midget Week- 26 cars???? this was night 1, where are all the cars? I was not expecting over 40, but sure thought we would see mid 30's. I'd hate to be the tracks on the end of this thing. It would be sad to see less than 20 cars on this "Special Week".
Scheduling: is this the smartest week to be running? Like it or not, Eldora is pulling alot of fans out of the region. Yes you can say that's a late model race, but I have several friends camping there right now that watch as many open wheel shows as they do LM shows. If I am an average fan going to Eldora Saturday, I'm probably not going to one of these races beforehand. Its not a cheep night. The traveling circus that should be following this thing must not be that big. The few crowd shots were ugly last night.
Sprint cars: What more does this track have to due to pull in cars? Even car count for the HiLimit race was not good. I watched the complete replay late last night, did anyone do the double? That used to be something kinda special about midget week, guys running both.

I think streaming hurts crowds for events with bad forecasts. For example, last Friday at Knoxville they were calling for rain all week. Every day I checked on it and it was consistent so Thursday we decided we’d stay home and watch on Flo if they happened to get it in. Knowing you can still basically see it (even though they zoom in WAY too much) definitely makes it easier to stay home. However, on Friday morning the forecast changed and they took the rain mostly out of it so we went to the race and got it in but the crowd was terrible. Worst crowd I’ve ever seen at Knoxville. And now the worst crowd at Lawrenceburg? Not a good look for USAC.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

767 hit on something. Really bad to schedule against Dream and upcoming Ohio sprint speedweek.

That being said, I came home and watched what they got done at Eldora. Despite pictures of the campgrounds being near full capacity around the track, the stands were more than half empty with 75 cars hot lappng and attempting to qualify.
-33
Midget week was for awhile 40 plus at a few tracks and Burgs mostly been 25-35.

The sprints were a non point show and people like JJ Hughes (Work Night and two hours travel each way. Abrams operates franchises. Kendall? IDK but there were about five regulars not there. It was still a good show.

I was in the car at 840 after the sprint winner was pushed off the track. Home at 950. Watched all that occured at Eldora. Then rewatched what I seen live at the Burg skipping the few down time moments and it was still before midnight

Kendall said they were afraid of rain and that Tyler would’ve had a hard time getting there on time from his job. Said he wishes they’d went.

I have no idea what FLO pays the promotor, but I understand it is not a significant number. In my opinion FLO has grown over the years with more significant advertising on their platform. Maybe it’s time that FLO and track owners, promotors and sanctioning bodies have a meeting of the minds.

As a former promotor I understand the impact of FLO on the local tracks, especially on major events at the local track level and especially when inclement weather is in the forecast.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

My beef with Flo is that it seems Certain series and races get all the $$$$ while the Track (Which you have to have to have a race is sometimes losing a few hundred fans) *Mostly iffy weather ones* but still.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Get your point, but I think it goes deeper than this. Someone is going to have to show me empirical evidence of the benefit Flo provides, such as increased revenue for tracks/teams and a growth of the sport in terms of participants and fans. Frankly I'm not seeing it.
Flo comes in and essentially takes over a track, especially if it is a travel series they broadcast. It is likely that the track's support series never get on camera, or if they do it is heat races only and Flo is gone by feature time.
The track's regular announcers are booted in favor of who ever the series and/or Flo hires. They take over the PA and the track's sponsors are never heard all night long, a problem if the promoter has secured a title sponsor for the event and has sponsor people in attendance, or as part of the program (waving green, victory lane, etc). The stream guys never mention them.
If there is a decrease in fans, then there is also a decrease in concessions, which many promoters need to show a decent profit. And there is the potential of the community losing a few hotel reservations, restaurants losing business, gas stations, etc. I really can't say that streaming causes a huge loss of fans, maybe with bad weather or bad roads, I imagine the loss of fans is small. But I think we can say that the streaming isn't adding much in the way of fans. And a Flo broadcast isn't making the promoter's bottom line for the year.

I myself was unable to attend the race. I also was unable to watch on Flo. With this week being my kid's graduation and open house, on top of her 10th and final year of 4H, and her being gone this week to her final 4H camp as a kid and 4Her, I didn't get done with work and our livestock until 9pm. Furthermore Lawrenceburg is very difficult on a normal day for me to make a show. However, I have been a few times and loved it, unfortunately haven't been since the new people took it over.

From what I seen from the replay, the track looked phenomenal, darn good racing, I've seen and heard lots of drivers commenting on how great the track has been this year. Kudos and great job to the new promoters!! Thank you for running the track and doing the best you can!!

With that said, maybe the weather did play a big role in car counts and attendance. But for those who don't think Flo has any negative impact on a track and/or race, you may want to see about taking a basic online math course. Each person that stays home and watches Flo instead of going to the track and/or race is what, $30 from the gate price? Then add in most will at least get a drink or two wether it's water, soda, or beer...some will get food as well. So roughly $10 a person in concessions. $40 per person. Times that by 10, $400. Times that by 100, $4,000.........Flo doesn't negatively impact a track and/or race???

Our racing group consist of 20 people AT SMACKDOWN...the rest of the season it's 3-5 people and has been that way the past 2 years. 10-15 people in our racing group stays home outside of Smackdown. That means in our group alone, a track is losing $400-$600. I can assure that our group isn't the only group who has decided to be that way. Flo doesn't have a negative impact on a track and/or race?

And yes, I watch Flo quite often when I cannot make it to a track and/or race on time due to work and other priorities that come first in my life such as my kid. Midget Week this year I will get to see 1/2 of the Kokomo show and that's it. Thank you for Flo, but reality is, it does negatively impact a track and/or race, especially with bad weather conditions approaching and/or major construction projects in and around a race track area. Also I agree with B99 100% that can also negatively impact area hotels, restaurants, gas stations, and other businesses. It's just reality is all.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

My concern is not to demonize Flo but how to make it better for all involved.

I mean if true what Perris said that they loose 400 fans a night and some phone streamed video since they quit shows he stands a lot fuller Given Perris charges parking and a little more for everything that's easily 25-30k a night. He also said Flo was paying him 1K a race. Do the math, I don't know what USAC gets and how much of it they use toward purses.

Tracks are closing by the dozen. A track like Burg, Haubstadt and a few others can hold bigger events. But not if there not here anymore. And if something like weds happens. There's only one real loser now isn't there? Yet everyone gets paid and everyone gets to see it anyway.

I prefer to hope that Flo saved the night for the promoter. All the people who weren't going to risk travel that watched from home.

I know what the Perris guy says. Anyone else notice he seems to be the only one? Whether he has a unique demographic or made a bad deal with Flo I don't know. I do know that neither myself or anyone on this board has access to the actual numbers.

What I do know is that some tracks local to me stream every night they race and have for four-five years. If it was a loser for them they would have stopped a long time ago.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Several of the USAC/CRA tracks quit having Flo Stream Not just Perris.
They'll still stream em though at full gate price. per Loud pedal or another.

Come to think of it. Ive not seen many USAC East Coast on Flo either. The one that was at Port Royal was part of another series headlining. and one hell of a race.

I''ll also go one further. That the midget fan base in indiana is probably one tenth what it was forty years ago. Not much exposure without other orgs runing them like Cora and Namars. to give each track more than one race a year..

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Also I believe the Usac fan base is an older crowd.And we are losing these fans every year.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Yeah, but it's kinda always been that way.

I will say that at the HL Race there was a bunch of kids. Rico and Larson have a huge following. Rico especially. Something I normally wouldn't pay attention too. But over there in turn two, It was noticeable the number of kids there. A LOT!

Also a ton more of those 15 dollar six pack beers buyers in attendance.

Re: Burg Crowd
 

:44:

Re: Burg Crowd
 

Just wanna say Shane Mchenry deserves a huge thanks from all the fans, for, what had to be a lot of hard work to get the show in, and losing money in the process. As far as Flo, yes its way more convenient to sit home in your jammies and watch, but theres nothing like being at the track with the sound, smells, excitement!

Re: Burg Crowd
 

It isn't about one particular streaming service, whether it be Dirt Vision, Flo or something else.

Some tracks individually stream, I doubt it's making them a fortune. It probably isn't costing them much to do it either, one camera and 50 buck to the camera guy, use the track PA as your voice feed and you're ready to go. It probably isn't costing them a great deal of fans, and the promoter can use the stream to leverage sponsors. But the local stream is generally under the promoter's control.

No so for the larger streaming services, whose agreements are with the sanctioning bodies, not the individual track promoter.