What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Since the off season can get very boring at times, I thought about this a bit today and thought this would be a good topic to discuss during the off season.

Just a thought I had while watching a few NFL games this afternoon.


What would it take for USAC to be as big as the World Of Outlaws currently are now or is USAC already on the same level?


What would have to happen to make this a possibility and make non-wing racing more of a national thing like winged racing?


Boost in race payouts for each show.?
Big name guys that run wing taking the wing off and seeing how they stack up?
A Bigger Schedule with more race dates and visiting new tracks?
More big sponsors to help with the payouts?
Getting more people interested in non-wing racing fans and drivers included?


Problem that likely keeps this from happening is there are more 410 wing races in the U.S. than there are 410 non-wing race cars and there are more tracks for the winged racers to race at.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Me to win the 1 billion dollar lottery. The big names will never take the wings off. It's what they know and there are to many good paying races. Keep it in the Midwest where the cars are. Big purses to get more teams to run full time. And I hate to say it because I live in Wisconsin only half the shows on PPV. Make them want to go to track to see all the races. And with they money left over 3 silver crown races on the miles and Terra Haute.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

It won't, It can't and it shouldn't.

Most drivers and owners have full time jobs and the availability and funds to race 30-40 times a year. We've had big sponsors come and go. Red Bull, Chevy, Dodge then Chevy Performance and Mopar Perforance

USAC hasn't gone bankrupt like Both the All Stars and WoO have althrough they tried like hell with the Speedway Champ Pavement car and a giant book that wouldn't sell for close to cost.

That being said, USAC and Speedshift brought in sprint car racing to Flo and should stop being treated like the red headed stepchild. It'd be great if they chipped in and made something like all the Master of Going faster races 15k to win 1k to start or something.

As far as talent? Look, You got about five in WoO that are going to win 90% of the races. Think it's about the same in USAC and honestly THE overal show product is much better. As someone else said, Show up for the feature at a winged race because the rest of the show is hot laps.

It would take USAC to find a fountain of youth for their fan base.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
As someone else said, Show up for the feature at a winged race because the rest of the show is hot laps.

I whole heartedly agree. Ive been to many sprint races where after the heats Ive thought I got my moneys worth I can leave right now and would have been satisfied. Thats probably happened at a few feature rainouts :32:

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by nathans1012:
What would it take for USAC to be as big as the World Of Outlaws currently are now or is USAC already on the same level?

It would be neat to ask this question to Kyle Larson and Brad Sweet. Maybe next time at the track and we see these guys, someone do it.

A change in the tastes of most dirt racing fans. Sadly no matter how much exposure Usac gets or how good the racing usually is, casual fans like winged racing more.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

$$$$$$

Sadly USAC lost this battle a long time ago-the WoO brand and name still draws fans (and drivers). People are willing to pay $50 for a WoO race. Very few would pay $50 for a USAC race.

Winged cars are also perceived, rightly or wrongly, to be safer than traditional sprints. And winged races pay a lot more.

I remember Larson mentioning in the dirt series that non wing is like killing yourself slowly or something to that effect.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by nathans1012:
Since the off season can get very boring at times, I thought about this a bit today and thought this would be a good topic to discuss during the off season.

Just a thought I had while watching a few NFL games this afternoon.


What would it take for USAC to be as big as the World Of Outlaws currently are now or is USAC already on the same level?


What would have to happen to make this a possibility and make non-wing racing more of a national thing like winged racing?


Boost in race payouts for each show.?
Big name guys that run wing taking the wing off and seeing how they stack up?
A Bigger Schedule with more race dates and visiting new tracks?
More big sponsors to help with the payouts?
Getting more people interested in non-wing racing fans and drivers included?


Problem that likely keeps this from happening is there are more 410 wing races in the U.S. than there are 410 non-wing race cars and there are more tracks for the winged racers to race at.

My opinion - What it would take is a "dictator" with the strong promotional characteristic to draw the dollars necessary to make the entertainment as, or even more, attractive to all of the "shareholders", those being the racers/owners, track operators/owners, sponsors and , more importantly, the fans, be they hard core, casual, or new. Where I'm going with this is I don't believe there would ever be a WOO without Ted Johnson, and there probably wouldn't be an ASCS without Emmet Hahn, and there probably wouldn't be an Allstars without the Emicks. In my mind these folks had a vision and stayed on task, succeeding and thriving against many obstacles and potential rival organizations. These folks stayed the course to make the show better for all concerned.

What I've found in my time is that any racing organization that is run by committee, be they racers, owners, etc. has a very difficult time succeeding because some priorities for each is most-likely in conflict with others, minimizing the organization's success, eventually ending in some sort of split. The "dictator', on the other hand is more able to keep the main objective in focus and, therefore, march in one direction rather than be pulled in several directions. They also have the promotional characteristic to draw the sponsorship necessary to succeed.

Again, just my observation and opinion.

Tim Simmons

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

This idea lost any chance of succeeding on April 23rd 1978. It gave Ted Johnson the opening he needed and he took great advantage of it.

Tony Stewart and Kasey Kahne tried to make non-wing racing more popular by bringing in big money and large corporate sponsors but it didn't work and both the teams and sponsors are now gone.

Each of us should be very grateful for Lauren Albano with NOS Energy Drink for everything she does for the sport. Also the new NOS Zero is really good and sugar free.

In today’s world, you don’t necessarily have to have the best product to have the biggest following, Nascar for example. Unfortunately it would take a boatload of money, and saturation promotion to get USAC to the level of the Outlaws. I have to reiterate a few points that I bring out from time to time, so forgive my redundancy, but a big name star would be essential to attach their brand to the series. Apparently that’s a tough sell in that it hasn’t happened in earnest yet. I mean Kyle basically says he’s afraid of wingless Sprint Cars. I believe in 1981, when the Outlaws decided they no longer needed true Sprint Cars, and mandated wings, that was a huge setback to wingless and everyone on that side of the sport. I’m optimistic though that our preferred style is gathering momentum across the country, but I don’t see anyway it gets close to the popularity of the Outlaws. They’re the brand of the genre, the same way Q-Tip is to cotton swab’s. I do put out this warning as we continue to try to grow the sport. Be careful what you wish for. I’m old enough to remember Nascar pricing out their fan base as their popularity grew.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by motorhead748:
It would take USAC to find a fountain of youth for their fan base.

Old Fans watch mostly non wing
Old Racers race mostly wing.

In both cases it's called getting wiser.


Strange how that OLD FAN BASE never seems to run out. In fact it's been getting larger.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

What holds USAC back is they try to cater their drivers to run all 3 series. You never see the sprint series running the same night as midgets. Look at all the open weekends the sprint cars have which has led to local tracks getting the USAC stars at a local price if that driver doesn't have a midget or silver crown ride. The Woo and HL focus on 1 series and build a schedule for it and have large series sponsors that only support 1 series.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

How about getting on a real TV channel (not streaming) like 16 times a year? Every Thursday or Saturday or Sunday...ESPN again, or MaV, or WB...anything...

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by staggerman:
What holds USAC back is they try to cater their drivers to run all 3 series. You never see the sprint series running the same night as midgets. Look at all the open weekends the sprint cars have which has led to local tracks getting the USAC stars at a local price if that driver doesn't have a midget or silver crown ride. The Woo and HL focus on 1 series and build a schedule for it and have large series sponsors that only support 1 series.

You didn't just suggest that they go back to scheduling against themselves did you lol...remember how stupid they were told they were...

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by JakeCroxton:
You didn't just suggest that they go back to scheduling against themselves did you lol...remember how stupid they were told they were...

When was the last time they did? Of the 3 national tours. I know Tony had to miss a race or two from the sprints and/or midgets in 95 (& still won all 3 tho). Did Yeley?

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Rap music is extremely popular, but it really sucks.
I never trust the taste of the buying public. :27:

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Lots of interesting comments here, wish I knew the answer..... don't think its gonna happen
But I think it has to start with $$$. Some of the best nonwing guys have left for more $$$, takes away from the appeal for fans
That would just be to keep from shrinking, not "getting as big as WoO"... kinda like a really good punt in football :(

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

The majority of Nascrap fans, Late Model Fans, Modified fans, and winged car fans have one thing in common. Not all but most of them come for the party more than the race. They will sit through a dusty race with not a single pass on a track that takes rubber in hot laps and yell about how awesome it was. Start talking technical to most and you get a deer in the headlights look. Most sprint car fans come for the race.
Notice there is one traditional race that emulates the atmosphere of the others, and it is sold out every year. The Chili Bowl.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

the king of the keyboards can make it happen. right nate!:D

Staggerman, you’re point definitely gets the wheels turning. Many of us are USAC fans, we love all 3 versions of their product. But you’re correct in that many Sprint drivers who do not have rides in Crown or midgets, they go race somewhere when USAC’s Sprint’s are off. It’s probably not unreasonable to think that USAC would have a few more full time Sprint team’s if they had more races. I could stand to do away with the pavement Crown race’s and replace them with Sprint dates

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by Vookie:
Rap music is extremely popular, but it really sucks.
I never trust the taste of the buying public. :27:

Or voting, but I digress. . . .

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Money is the key, both at the top of the purse structure but also through the field. Traditional sprint cars thrive on numbers, just look at the crowds that fill tracks for IWS. Fans like heats that have compelling and competitive races to advance. They like and C and B mains with good drivers and cars fighting to make the A main. Pay through the field in the A and better funded teams and drivers will stay with the series making the entire night more exciting. Pay through the field and make the payout reflect a profit on the night for anyone who makes the A (notwithstanding damaged cars) and the entire program becomes more exciting. It keeps the crowd entertained and it draws cars.
And 1 more thing, keep the program moving. The sprint main should flag green no longer than 2.5 hours from the beginning of the program. Any track contracted will only be allowed 1 support series. The support series runs a heat or B after sprint qualifying, sprint heats, the sprint C main, the sprint B main, and the sprint feature. The support group fills down time only and has a time limit each race.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by Vookie:
Rap music is extremely popular, but it really sucks.
I never trust the taste of the buying public. :27:

"Nobody's ever gone broke underestimating the taste of the American public": H.L. Mencken

Originally Posted by flagboy55:
Staggerman, you’re point definitely gets the wheels turning. Many of us are USAC fans, we love all 3 versions of their product. But you’re correct in that many Sprint drivers who do not have rides in Crown or midgets, they go race somewhere when USAC’s Sprint’s are off. It’s probably not unreasonable to think that USAC would have a few more full time Sprint team’s if they had more races. I could stand to do away with the pavement Crown race’s and replace them with Sprint dates

Maybe USAC should stop the drivers from running non USAC sanctioned races like they used to do years ago. That’s kind of why the World Of Outlaws got started.

I remember those days. Driver’s used to ask permission to run non sanctioned race’s. Not sure how many did, but it was a thing.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Well, they could start by making sure they have two ambulances!

what a bunch of Clem's.

No wonder the fan base is 60+, You have to be retired to be a USAC fan.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by SoIllSprinter:
Money is the key, both at the top of the purse structure but also through the field. Traditional sprint cars thrive on numbers, just look at the crowds that fill tracks for IWS. Fans like heats that have compelling and competitive races to advance. They like and C and B mains with good drivers and cars fighting to make the A main. Pay through the field in the A and better funded teams and drivers will stay with the series making the entire night more exciting. Pay through the field and make the payout reflect a profit on the night for anyone who makes the A (notwithstanding damaged cars) and the entire program becomes more exciting. It keeps the crowd entertained and it draws cars.
And 1 more thing, keep the program moving. The sprint main should flag green no longer than 2.5 hours from the beginning of the program. Any track contracted will only be allowed 1 support series. The support series runs a heat or B after sprint qualifying, sprint heats, the sprint C main, the sprint B main, and the sprint feature. The support group fills down time only and has a time limit each race.

At Eldora, when the USAC sprint cars, is the support class, should this same formula be used?

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by Kinser11:
At Eldora, when the USAC sprint cars, is the support class, should this same formula be used?

Interesting point.

Should the World of Outlaw sprint cars been the support class at Charlotte a couple weeks back?

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by Vookie:
Interesting point.

Should the World of Outlaw sprint cars been the support class at Charlotte a couple weeks back?

What one paid more?

The sprints and the LMs paid the same purse at Charlotte. The sprints run before the late models because of how abrasive the track is on tires from what I recall.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by Kinser11:
At Eldora, when the USAC sprint cars, is the support class, should this same formula be used?

I always felt they were 2 headlining divisions.

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
I always felt they were 2 headlining divisions.

Agree, I don’t think the Usac sprints are in anyway a filler for the program. It’s billed “Let’s Race Two” for a reason.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Originally Posted by dsc1600:
Agree, I don’t think the Usac sprints are in anyway a filler for the program. It’s billed “Let’s Race Two” for a reason.

That cannot be or USAC would be AS BIG as the WoO as the thread states.

Is the purse the same? If not, they're the undercard.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

Both nights of #LetsRaceTwo at Eldora have paid $10,000-to-win for both USAC & WoO in 2021, 2022 & 2023.

Originally Posted by richie:
Both nights of #LetsRaceTwo at Eldora have paid $10,000-to-win for both USAC & WoO in 2021, 2022 & 2023.

Thanks for that information.

And remainder of purse was equal throughout the rest of the field for both series?

Asking for a friend.

Re: What would it take for USAC to be as big as the WOO?
 

And tow money equal?

His friend asked my friend to ask for him

My friend was wondering the same thing!

You would have to get rid of heat race inverts. Pay tow money of at least $500 a night. $1400 for 10th. Never happen.