Who thinks it’s better?
 

Just refurbished my old soapbox after this weekend’s Million, and I’m going to climb up on it. There’s room for more, and I hope you will join me, but I have absolutely no problem standing alone, with a beer in one hand and a cigar in the other proclaiming my stance. Who, on God’s green earth thinks it’s better to have a break in a Sprint Car Race? I truly hate the idea, I mean with a passion. It’s uselessness was on full display Thursday night at Eldora as coming out of the break as a crash that took out some good cars and basically caused the rest of the race to be, in my opinion, kind of a snooze fest. We had 7 race fans in the garage watching the event. Now these are veterans, who have been watching for a long time. We took a poll, and the result was unanimous. The question was 40 laps straight or 50 with a break? I’m pretty sure you guys know how that went, 40 was an emphatic winner. I hate it at Knoxville, I hate it at the Tusky, and anywhere else it’s implemented. Kinda goes against the definition of Sprint Race. Anyhow, the beer is cold up here on my soapbox, come on up and join me

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I'll be Number 8: Either put larger Silver Crown-type tanks on them or cut the distance.

I have disliked at Knoxville since day 1

Make me #9 or 10 whatever the count is.
When I saw that they were having a break I didn’t even care about going & I didn’t

Yep, the break disrupted that race. Guys we’re starting to move at lap 20. Broke momentum and heat cycle in tires and fuel load burn off.

Give me 40 straight. The last 10 laps of a 40 lap per at Eldora changes things drastically. Historically, the leader at 30 doesn’t lead at 40.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Breaks in short track racing, SUCK!
Sucks in Nascar too. Don't mind stage racing, It has guys racing for top spots early. But mandatory cautions with em. SUCK and remove strategy.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

55 your garage sounds like a fun place to be. Agreed that mandatory fuel stops are not a sprint race. Go 40 or as Stevensville Mike said, make them run a larger tank.
I don’t agree the stop/break is the reason some contenders were eliminated in that crash. It easily could have happened after any normal red/yellow.
Your soapbox sounds like it has produced many a fine story in it’s time. Someday I’d like to have a seat in the back of your garage and listen to the seven of you tell those stories. Next Friday starts ISW 23. It’s time to saddle up and be ready for the best week of the year. Probably something will happen that your soapbox will need to be used. ��

I’ll bet they can’t go 40 laps on a tank of fuel. We’ll see tonight if it goes non-stop but I’d bet you’ll have to have a fuel stop anyway if there is more than 1 caution. And 30 laps is way too short for a big race.

Who wants to see someone run out of fuel at the end of a big race anyway?

So not trying to be stupid here, I dont know specs on the cars but are Late Models or Mods tanks that much bigger then a 410 Sprint?

Slightly larger tanks.

Late Models are on gas so you're looking at 50-100% better fuel mileage.

Modifieds typically don't make the power of either a Sprint Car or Late Model. Even if they do, especially if they do, they're not on the throttle all the way around like the two other classes.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

We ran alcohol at bigger shows but changed carbs for High octane gas for regular shows.

We are well past the point of these cars using more fuel than tradition racing and small tanks call for.

What was a sprint tank in gallons in say 1975? I know they were bigger

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Green flag fuel flow for winged 410s will be about 2 gallons per minute, hence about 25-26 gallons for 12.5 minutes (50 laps) under green. Yellow flag fuel flow will be about .6 gal/minute. How many minutes of yellow were there at the Million?

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Way too many in the first heat, Frank.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

So far no one posting here likes it, me included. Go figure. I'd like to take this thread in a different angle. I am sure my bud flagboy55 won't mind.

If they are doing it at the Eldora Million, and they have been doing it at the Knoxville Nationals, two of the most prestigious races in our country, WHY are they doing it? What is GOOD about it? There are always two sides to every story. Sometimes more.

So what is good about it?

1 - We get more laps. It turns into a bit of an enduro with a 50 lap run. 25, 30..... the usual run for an A Main. So the fans get more and the A Main lasts longer.

2 - Every team knows there is going to be a caution flag at Lap X. One can tweak their strategy to adjust to that break. Kind of gets the crews a little more involved than just the driver finding the right line, adjusting the bars, moving the wing back and forth, etc.

What I would like to see if we are going to continue to go down this road, is to only allow refueling during the caution/stage break. Don't even let them TOUCH anything else on the car. No tires, no air pressure adjustments, no spacer changes. You have what you have at the break. You will have only that plus fule after the break.

Charles said earlier in the thread with respect to NASCAR: Giving points is fine at certain stages, but don't stop the race. For the sprinters, if you stop it, you just let them refuel.

What else might be good about a mid-way break like this, gents? Play the debate team game. You may not agree with the side you are on, or WANT to be on that side, but try and sell everyone listening your side.

Saw a sprint car race that paid 7 figures.
Good enough for me. No complaints.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I can get quick pee break in. :32:

Mike, you kinda came around to some of where I wanted to go after we got some data. Very unscientific and small sample size, but out of all participants we got maybe 1 that’s ok with it. Like you said and where I wanted to go eventually was who decides it has to be this way? I’ll bet you a beer and a hotdog that the majority of FANS think like we do. Now as I’ve said all along, thank you Smoke, Flo and Eldora for putting on the event. But judging from this research, it’s not what the people want. Almost sounds like the government is involved 😉

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

:5: :8:

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Aaaaaahh

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

It's called a sprint race with sprint cars for a reason.
To me the days when the crew chief and the driver walked the track and then went back and set the car up the way they thought would be the best over the whole of the race.
With no wing sliders, shock adjusters, or pit stops the setup was not the best for the whole race and the adjustments were the driver's talent.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Bingo! 49 your post nailed it. With all of things you mentioned about the cars. In my opinion, which is not usually shared by many, the technology has surpassed the potential of the cars. Less downforce, harder tires, and less horsepower would bring the element of driver talent more to the forefront.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I haven't watched F1 in years, but when I did, I liked when it rained. It was driving talent that won, not the cubic dollars of the super teams.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I do not like fuel stops at all. It appeared to me that the majority of the paying customers didn't seem to mind. It was said to be the largest crowd in track history, so a lot of people voted in favor of it, with their $$. I choose to watch the broadcast at home. Yeleyfan you are right. In my opinion, technology is the enemy of all racing.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

My two cents, a simple solution.... For as long as i can remember, the standard fuel cell for sprint cars was 33 gallons. I seen many 40-50 lap features. They started running 28-29 gal fuel cells to save some weight, and that became the trend. Some low budget teams would still run the 33 gal tank and just not fill them up to full. I think if a promoter would run a 40-50 lap show with NO FUEL STOP, then i would simply slap on my 33 gal tank and not take a chance of running out of fuel. Who wouldnt do that for a Million bucks or 175K ?????

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

So there was a fuel stop in the KR last night too? WTH?

I mean I seen many with many reds and they let em open red it with no tire change. But a actual stoppage for break. That sucks.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

"Green flag fuel flow for winged 410s will be about 2 gallons per minute, hence about 25-26 gallons for 12.5 minutes (50 laps) under green. Yellow flag fuel flow will be about .6 gal/minute. How many minutes of yellow were there at the Million?"

If the green flag burn (see above) is 25-26 gallons, then the remaining 7-8 gallons (in a 33 gal. tank) is good for only 12-13 minutes total yellow flag time over the whole of a 50 lap race. Gonna make it? Nope.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Under caution laps they would '' lean it down" to conserve fuel. Been there, done that.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I agree Nungester, that was my whole point.

As far as last night goes, they said they would have to have a stop because the sticky track, humidity and other excuses they come up with. Ok, I’ll bite, but they had several cautions and Gio had an incident on lap 12. Now I’m no mathematical genius but using my fingers toes and an abacus I deducted that that would have left 28 laps. Why they didn’t make the call to fuel then is beyond me. If they can’t make 28 the problem is bigger than just we think it is. Brent however is correct again in that our opinion doesn’t mean much because they filled the place. I’m just trying to find logic in why anyone thinks a Sprint Car Race is better with a pit stop. So I’m not going to the National’s until they go back to a race with no stops (veiled excuse for not doing something I probably won’t do anyway)

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I'll let you members of the braintrust figure it out. As for me, I think the four or five day party has more to do with attendance than anything. Not going to get into it again but it's the reason I quit going, The few who couldn't handle brewed or distilled spirits.

Earl would have USAC Weds.
All Stars Thurs
Night Before Fri
And KR on Sat.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

The distance of the race is posted. If your car can't go 40 or 50 laps plus cautions without adding fuel, then you might want to put a bigger tail tank on it. Sprint cars should NEVER need a pit stop to run a full race (other than the Little 500), and definitely not a scheduled one.

They were burning nearly a gallon per lap, that would necessitate a 40 gallon tank, which doesn’t seem terribly safe and is an added cost.

You do realize the Kings Royal was scheduled to go 40 green laps? I don’t really want to hear about extra expense in the world of big time Sprint Car racing. With the luxuries of the million dollar haulers and that. And talk about added expense, the race’s had open red’s where you could change anything including tires at about $400 a pop. Carrying a larger cell to run once in a while doesn’t seem to be a terrible expense considering

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

Mandate a larger fuel cell for this race and you will kill the car count.

The big teams may be able to afford it, the little guy will stay at home.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

I've only been to Eldora once (4 Crown several years ago), & it seemed like there was a lot of drinking, more than I've seen anywhere else.
No big deal tho, I didn't see anyone get out of control

Tell me exactly who the “small teams”were. They can run a 33 gal tank the entire year and not be giving up very little weight difference !! You are either new to the sport or very misinformed.

Re: Who thinks it’s better?
 

In that case an immediate end must be put to Silver Crown racing; they carry 75 gallon tanks!!

100% correct. This race has become an event or happening for many. I’d wager there were some that were there that never saw the first race car

This!
This is why I hate work areas. I kind of understood why they came to be the norm for various reasons, but now it’s “the norm” to just purposely stop on track so you can go get a snack/cig/adjustment???

On the original subject:
These tiny fuel tanks for weight saving is sanctioning bodies caving to the racers, for in the end, a silly weight savings…. With no thought put towards what the fan wants. Cause those 8lbs are the difference between winning, and finishing 14th 🙄…. Maybe make the driver out of titanium to make up the difference 😁
The larger tank is a simple solution, but will most likely never happen.

But they’re also going about 75 mph so it works out :)