Knoxville Sold Out
 

I often times compare Knoxville to the Smackdown. Simply because it’s a big wingless race that is multi day at a fabulous race track in the state that’s the undisputed non wing king. I’m not sure what Knoxville holds but I’m guessing around 25,000. I’m not sure what Indiana’s Baddest Bullring capacity is but I’ll guess between 5 and 7,000. Will we be able to boast a sell out Saturday night in Indiana?

WTH are you smoking,no comparison at all between the two,nothing at all compares to the "Sprintcar Capital of The World".

I’m pretty sure that you miss my point. It’s not a comparison of numbers or popularity. Let me ask it this way. What non wing event would you consider our Knoxville? Like people have called Knoxville the Super Bowl of sprint cars, so to break it down to a sub category of only wingless, what is our super bowl? And I will be smoking a Mark Twain #1 cigar in a little bit

I always thought I’d attended the non wing Kville Nationals really. It had a Knoxville purse structure and a field of cars similar to the Nationals. That was the Mopar Million at Eldora.
Sadly there wasn’t a Nationals crowd, and it wasn’t an annual race.
I guess because of multiple consecutive days Smackdown is similar to the Nationals that way.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Hard to believe this was 10 years ago now.....

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/pic...pictureid=3225

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

The same people who complain about non wing not paying enough, will be the ones not there.

You are absolutely correct, there is no comparison, nothing compares to Kokomo for great racing. Just kidding, sort of.

The big 3 in sprint car racing are Knoxville, Eldora and Williams Grove. All half miles, which Kokomo is not. It is the closest thing in the non-wing world, hopefully it sells out as it should.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

The USAC race with the most attendance all season is by far Let's Race Two at Eldora followed by 4-Crown weekend.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Sad, but true. SprintWeek had very good crowds this year.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

That's easy, it's The Four Crown. It features everything that is good about USAC, and everybody wants a win at The Big E.

That's also why it makes me just a bit sad that the All-Stars apparently have to be attached to it in order for it to be a successful event. Or The Outlaws, even, to be honest. I miss the old 2-day format: qualifying and heats on Friday, hotlaps and a bunch of mains on Saturday. I know it's never coming back, though. :13:

I guess USAC itself left this open to happen when they axed the stock car division. :3:
I never did mind the modifieds there, though. Hewitt, Hines, Darland, and others made that interesting enough.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Says something to me about the All Stars that they can only run Eldora when USAC is there. . Earl had em about eight to ten times a year

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

I think that Tony Stewart's overhead, even adjusted for inflation, is at least twice what Earl's was. Take that however you may like it, but I enjoyed the quaintness much more, myself.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Last year, we attended the Knoxville Nationals (10 yr in a row) and two weeks later attended the Smackdown (1st time) at Kokomo. Both were good events, but there is no comparison in the events.


I understand that Knoxville is only about 8,000 population, with 25,000 people attending the Nationals, and Kokomo is about 60,000 with maybe 6,000 (or so, my guess) attending the Smackdown, but the town of Knoxville is INVESTED in the Nationals. There are events going on all week through the town, and the people there seem to genuinely appreciate the fans in attendance. Nearby towns (Pella and Newton that I know of) also promote and get involved in the festivities. The excitement and anticipation builds throughout the week, and by Saturday night the tension is so high you could almost cut it with a knife. By contrast, the motel we stayed at in Kokomo didn’t even know there was a race going on, let alone it was a 3 day event! There was little to no acknowledgement anywhere in Kokomo that we saw of an event being held. No “Welcome Race Fans”, promotions, or the like. While Kokomo Speedway did a decent job of trying to build excitement for Saturday night, it just isn’t the same.

Don’t get me wrong…we enjoyed both, but trying to compare the two is comparing apples and oranges.

Chris, 4 Crown is my favorite event in the world, but not exactly the apples to apples I was looking for. I’m talking sprint cars only, like Knoxville. Hey

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

But USAC is more than just sprints, so it's The Four Crown. But, if we're talking just sprints, then it's Indiana Sprint Week. Everybody and their brother has copied that, and rightfully so. The Knoxville Nationals is danged near a week and probably more if you wanna be serious about it (Capitani, Front Row Challenge, Nationals itself). So Indiana Sprint Week it is!

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

We took the Hall of Fame tour at Knoxville on Saturday. they said with infield, suites and sold out grandstands, attendance would top off at just a little over 30,000 people

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

The city of Kokomo is more aware of the track than it used to be. For years there was no involvement. When the Smackdown first started, I went out to local businesses, and let them know about what was going on. We sat up driver appearances in several restaurants. Although the population isn't 60,000, there is more for people do in Kokomo than a place like Knoxville. Our local daily paper downsized in 2020 to 5 days a week. With it we lost a weekly racing column, that didn't help. Josh Spencer has been active trying to boost community involvement, and does a good job. Let me know if you are coming, and I would be more than happy to try to steer you in the right direction.

Openwheelfan1 You’re in some way taking me where I’m hoping to go. I understand completely that there is no comparison in the size and commitment to the event. But I’m trying to keep it “in class”. We’ve gotten a little off track, no pun intended. ISW is different in that it travels to different tracks 4 crown is different with 3 classes. The purpose of the comparison is twofold. First, the size and popularity I think is a great gauge on the overall comparison of W vs NW. We talk about guys leaving wingless for wings. It’s very clear there’s a much bigger demand for wings except here in Indiana. Secondly, 30,000 filled up the Marion County Fairgrounds Saturday night, and I’m wondering if we can fill Kokomo Speedway in a week and a half from now in the state that’s the undisputed bastion of non wing racing. All of it seems to me to be a very accurate study on the supply/demand of sprint car racing.
I’m very proud to be a diehard Hoosier state sprint car fan. I want Indiana to continue to be the paragon of wingless, and continuing to make Smackdown a premier event will help keep up our reputation

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

If I won Powerball or Mega I would figure out a way to make Terre Haute the [nonwing] Sprint Car Capital of the World.

God Bless You Dale!
I couldn’t agree more

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

This is one of the better debates I have seen on here in a long time. There is reality and discernment, which means people are seeing a macro picture of sprint car racing vs. the micro of what I like to watch.

There are couple things at play here:

-Promotion. This is a big problem and many of you on the board know it. Knoxville promotes the Nationals 365 days a year. We are two weeks out from Smackdown and there is barely any mention of it except in the racing circles here in Indiana. How do you draw in new people? Where does it come from? KNIA the radio station in IA does the races weekly and reaches alot of listeners who may or may not attend. They're reaching more demographics too. I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of diversity I saw this week. This leads into my next point

-Maketing $'s. How many people can I reach and what is my cost to obtain a new customer. If NOS spent $250K to be the title sponsor last week they spent probably $2.50 per head over the 4 nights of racing. I figured total attendance for the week was roughly 100K. The preliminary nights had better attendance than I had seen in years. Does that fit their model on what it cost to obtain a new customer plus they provided free product all week long. What did Casey's spend to be an associate sponsor? I stop at one when I get a chance and support them so its working. People want to sign up and spend their Marketing $'s there because its clearly getting them a return on their money. The place was wrapped with banners and signage top to bottom around the facility. That's a lot of eyes on your brand. Someone will be a customer because of it. Both sponsors already have cars.

These are the things that is really missing with the stuff in Indiana. Not saying its going to change things overnight, but if you want to grow the sport/event you need to promote and market it as a destination event. Time will tell if it truly becomes a destination event and if the things needed to make it occur take shape.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Too be honest, If not for IOW I wouldn't of known these three MSCS races existed. Nothing on FB. Haven't been on Twitter since Musk pulled out.

Yeah, Im out here Cincy way but go if and when I can and if I know about it.

Burg advertises sprint week, usac, woo.
But I don't hear or see anything on Florence or Moler Raceway either and they are roughly same distance for me.

Advertising alone doesn't do it. People have been going to the nationals for decades, It's a established event they go home and tell friends about. Return as often as they can. Sprint week's reached that status. But still probably best crowd is less than half Knox.

Midget week, Well, Quite frankly it's not supported. Id don't know if it's the rev limiter rule or what. But powri and a lot of independents . Where are they?

What does Grandview hold? I've seen that place packed for Eastern Storm.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Chuck,

Not sure which FB you are looking at , but yes these events have and were always promoted on FB and on MSCS schedule for a long time. Facts please.

Except for the first year or two, it doesn’t seem Smackdown is near a sell out. The first two nights always have a lot of open seats. Saturday is typically fairly full but usually quite a few empty seats around me. I was shocked at the poor attendance for Kokomo sprint week. Yes, I realize it was a weeknight but still surprising. It is frustrating that folks always clamor for big paying shows but don’t fill the stands for one of the best events in sprint car racing.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Facebook and other social media outlets are only a part of the equation, solely relying on them to get your message out is a huge miss.

Sadly real race promotion is no longer the norm. You have to have a hook to get people in the front gate, the party at Knoxville is as much a draw as anything else. Much like the Indianapolis 500, where attendance at the 500 doesn't necessarily translate into attendance at other events.

Also, at Knoxville you get their regulars vs the WoO travelers. Local fans want to see their regulars do well against the travelers, and they want to see the WoO regulars they don't get to see on a regular basis. If I am an Indiana sprint car fan I can see most everyone at Smackdown at any of the other Indiana tracks, just about any time.

I love Kokomo and think the world of the O'Connor family, but I don't see Smackdown taking on a life similar to Knoxville.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

A reporter for the Kokomo paper stopped me and interviewed me at the first Smackdown. He was surprised I came that far to a dirt track race. Brent or Asha (Brent's wife) sent me my picture from the paper and the article. I told him these three girls drove further and pointed to Brooke who is now Mrs. Casey Shuman and her two friends Julie Wright and always forget the others name.

That was also the first time we had a stripper pole at The Frolic. LOL Aussie Wayne was the best on it I have pictures and a video to prove it.

So I wasnt going to comment on this since I have never been to Knoxville, but this has been a positive debate for the most part and fun to read. I will add a few things. If you dont like it, fine, your choice, but dont come at me with name calling, being immature, all that negative b.s. If you dont like it, then just ignore it and scroll on and act your age. Some is facts, some is opinions.

So Smackdown does get promoted in some ways, highly unlikely like Knoxville does. We have a radio station in Kokomo that has been promoting it for a few weeks or so. WWKI 100.5FM. Country radio station. Not everyone around here listens to country music, especially the newer country music. Also being a small business owner myself, it is not cheap to advertise and promote via radio. No social media is not a good way to solely depend on either. However as Funk said, there are other businesses that get behind it and support it and promote it and individuals like him, myself, one he mentioned, others in this town that do all they can, talk all they can, but yet again, probably not like Knoxville.

It's not a week long party. Only about half a week. No the town doesnt stop or shut down or have parades or festivals. Some people in this town hates the track and racing and noise and etc. Its how they are, their not race fans, their loss/choice. That also does not help. As another said, no most the hotels doesnt even know what Smackdown is. No welcome race fans or deals/discounts, anything like that.

One factor that I personally see and think is an issue, is age. Please noone on here take it the wrong way bc that's not what it's intended for. Around here, the younger crowd is very very light and small at the race tracks. Most businesses cant even get the younger crowd to work, as I'm sure alot of you in your respective towns and areas have the same problem. I know people in their 20s and even early 30s that wont leave their house unless they have to and it has nothing to do with Covid or the economy. It's sad. Most of what I see at the tracks are dye hards, race travelers, or families. Example was Saturday night at US24 Speedway. 60-75% of the people around us didnt even know who Daison Pursley was, much less his injury situation and comeback story. Had no idea why some were in happy tears, screaming in joy, clapping, etc. It was families or people looking for affordable entertainment. Not your typical race fan. The fan base is growing older, some even passing on, not too much of a younger crowd. The 2 primary groups I spend time with, I'm the youngest in both groups at 40. The one group even picks on me and laughs at me calling me the baby at 40.

Something I havent seen anyone really discuss or talk about either is property size, rules/laws, city/county ordinances. Kokomo does not have the property Knoxville or Eldora has. Also neither does Terre Haute. Has Mr. Ronk and the others done a great job with TH, IN MY OPINION yes!!!! However, it's on the Fairgrounds and that becomes a factor. Kokomo is "landlocked" in a round about way. KG is on one side and is never going anywhere, it's one of the biggest grain operations in the state and midwest, its a farming community whether anyone likes farmers or not, outside of the big 3 factories in Kokomo. Then you got Davis Road and the RR tracks. Neither are going anywhere. So that leaves the farm ground west and north, along with the trash company and building. Those are the only directions the track could go for more parking, more camping, bigger pits, etc. It is possible as the farm ground belongs to extended family of mine who I help with harvest, but it would take ALOT of money to buy the farm ground as is the same for the trash company/building. Even then would it be Knoxville, probably not. Would it be Eldora, probably not. Lots and lots of history with those 2 tracks, as I would call the tracks, owners, promoters, past and present, Legends!!

I am very biased on this subject, Kokomo is the best track in the state hands down, top 5 in the nation, IF you ask me and IN MY OPINION. I love the O'connor Family, always hugs and handshakes at every race, I respect the hell out of them and how hard they work to make Kokomo what it is. Also another good friend of mine with them in combination, they all got me back into racing after my accident at 13 yrs old. However, will it ever be Knoxville or Eldora, highly unlikely. Those of us that wish it was or wish Smackdown was, we can always dream, hope, and wish. As one said, IF I hit the lottery real big, I'd do everything I could to turn Kokomo into a Knoxville track or Eldora track!! In the mean time, great positive debate that I have enjoyed reading, good day to all, and enjoy what we/you have, while we/you still have it.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Good points at Knoxville it is right in town. (Though it wasn't in the beginning) Residents use their yards for parking and camping. Almost impossible at Knoxville to camp at the fairgrounds. They built a campground north of the track about a 1/4 of a mile. Having residents profiting from their yards and renting rooms at houses gets the community involved. When I have been to the Nationals, which has been when it was much smaller, we would have to drive 45 minutes to get a motel room. That definitely hurts as far as convenience, so renting a room is nice and people make lifelong friends. Some people are catching on in Kokomo. I know a friend who is renting a house for Smackdown for his family. Knoxville Nationals have been around for 61 years, that helps when building an event. The longer an event goes on, the bigger it will get. All it needs is the support of people who like non wing racing.

16j. That’s part of the reason I started this thread is that the OConnor’s deserve a full house. As has been noted on many a post, their work ethic is among the best.
It’s also well documented the work the Spencer family has done for years to always help promote the track and events. What can we do to help fill it up?

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Intelligent post but my question is if they cant sellout smackdown how are more seats going to attract more fans? Getting young people interested in non-wing sprints is the most important thing that needs to occur to keep the sport alive. Also losing drivers to winged racing has hurt too. If you want to see 30 somethings at the races go to a dirt Late Model race thats where they are.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

John, you make a good point about age. Younger fans seem to flock to dirt late models. I think they can identify with many of the younger drivers. This past Saturday I went to Florence Speedway for the North / South 100. There were so many fans at the track they had to put them in the infield of the track. Thats a good problem to have for the track at $45 a ticket. I also noticed that when attending the Kings Royal, there are more younger fans there. Younger fans seem attracted to the WoO and winged racing. Non wing racing seems to attract an older veteran crowd. Hope that can change in the future. Tracks need younger fans for sure.

Tons of young drivers in open wheel. If people don’t know it, no one is promoting it

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

I don't go to late model races, so I am sure you guys are right. I went to Joker's Wild night at Eldora. I thought the age demographic was pretty close to what I normally see. Saw the Outlaws a few years ago at Plymouth, and were saying we felt young in that crowd.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

The Smackdown is the Big sprint car race in the midwest. If Knoxville were within a 6 hr drive I may consider it. I drove out to the 1st cornhusker deal but will not drive that far for wings. I know the wings put on a good show there. Better than most tracks they run on. Fortunate to have been in a suite the first night for usac. After the wings most people left before the usac show. Wing sprints are a big draw. Fans are rabid like late model fans. I guess I have seen too much great racing over the years with usac. Again, I have been to 200plus wing shows and most disappoint me compared to usac racing. I'm half happy we don't have huge crowds most of the time. When they lost the 7 officials in that plane crash it was like the same time cart and woo were formed. Think about it. USAC is still here.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Knoxville hasn't been the same for me since Karl Kinser doesn't show up anymore late at night to drive the bus. Best bus driver ever. Not sure if any here will know what I'm talking about but it was hilarious.

Kokomo is by far the best kept secret in dirt tracks. The O'Connor's are great people and work super hard and it shows. Every time I make the drive over I try to bring a new race fan with me. Haubstadt is closer for me to show a new fan non-wing USAC sprint cars but I don't want to bore and turn them off on the first night so I use Kokomo for the first timers.

Is it possible The Smackdown doesn't sell out anymore because way too may people in a small area for a few days and that turns people off? The landlocked response was spot on.

People in the middle of the country don't consider eastern time zone places like Kokomo the mid-west.

Re: Knoxville Sold Out
 

Without a doubt. No bus ride was quite right unless Karl was the driver. Always loved those stops along the way in those small towns that prompted action by the bus riders....Those were some fun times for sure.

Well sir, I do not have the answer to your question, last sentence. I wish I did. Yes there are several families including the one you mentioned that do alot for the track and racing. Some others I know as well. Racefan20, your also correct, if we cant sellout current Kokomo, how would we sellout 30,000. I definitely dont have all the answers, just some facts and opinions to add to alot of other facts and good positive opinions on this topic. Definitely been a good fun discussion. Thank you for the topic and start of this discussion Flagboy55. Just like the bus thing, hell I just got educated and got a laugh out of the deal haha. I can only imagine what it was like.

All I can say right now is the lights was on last night, work is being done for SMACKDOWN!!!! I'm pretty sure the new scoreboard will be ready and working. I will 100% be there and so will my line of push trucks haha!! Pretty kool when all 3 are lined up back to back to back!! I'm doing my best to get new people to give it a try!! Hoping for a sellout and packed house for everyone involved!! I actually came up with one hell of a kool idea at Sprint Week that would look awesome, be seen for miles away, seen from the air, and that would yet again make Kokomo Speedway standout over most tracks, but I gotta go through the right people to even have a chance of getting it approved. IF it happens, it will look amazing next year!! In the meantime, GYATK haha!!

Rather than comparing Knoxville to Kokomo, I think the non-winged world should work on elevating the 4 Crown.

The best thing to do in my opinion is moving the weekend to the weekend before the Kings Royal and create a 10 days of Eldora like the 10 days of Knoxville.

I’m sure this will go over like a fart in church on here, but this would create a natural audience as there would be people who would want to camp there for the whole time and would allow USAC to have its own weekend to showcase the product.

Myself i would like to see the 4👑 and Smackdown highlighted and promoted as much as possible. With that being said I believe the state of Indiana should be showcased as a whole by heavily promoting IMW, ISW, BC39, and the Smackdown. If we as a state are going to proclaim ourselves as “The Racing Capital of the World” then it should be represented as such. Now how we get there I can’t answer that. FlagBoy i try to promote it as much as i can and my group will be doing our part. My group of 5 will be in section B as usual. Can’t wait~9 days.