Lawrenceburg thought
 

Please don’t chastise me here but, what if Lawrenceburg started running winged 410 sprints weekly instead of non wing?
With so many guys wanting to move up and run winged cars anyway, and the burg being right next to Ohio (winged country)I think they could stand out amongst all the other tracks in Indiana and provide a place for guys to try winged stuff before going to the All Stars or another traveling series.
I know we all love non wing, and I do over winged cars as well. But I think the burg doing something different could actually work out.
Being respectful, what’s everyone’s thoughts?

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

I look at what Circle city tried to do last year and don't think that's a option. Staab told me back in 86-87 that that winged fad would last five years tops, he was 100% right. LBurg, Bloomington went from 35-40 counts down to 8-9 cars The closest hot bed is maybe Freemont area and their car counts aren't stellar, Solid, but not stellar.

What might work is a ASCS 360 Non Wing with a spec RR.
Non ACSS heads bolt on weight. Also the D2 midgets have been great the last two times I seen them. Lucas LM indiana Speed week. Hell Tour LM's A FAST/All Star weekend.

Who knows, I don't think going from 25-30 races on a motor to ten. Going from 25 gallons of racing fuel to 40 in a night solves any problems.

I don’t think weekly would work but maybe once a month bringing the FAST series or trying to get some Atomic cars might be a good change of pace.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

The truth is that most people who watch the sprint cars like the non-wing sprints the best. Back in the day when WoO started watching winged sprint cars race was something new and good for that time in sprint car racing. But I think watching winged sprint cars race is not as popular as it once was. I don't hear much about the WoO like I used to hear, I also think their car count is less. For the people who watch sprint car racing, watching maybe one or two shows of winged sprint cars is enough as it is mostly the same winners with not many new winged sprint car racers. For non-winged sprint cars racing there is always new racers which is what people want to see.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Just out of curiosity, where are you from? What you’ve described in this post is the opposite of reality for everywhere except Indiana. No offense, but it almost sounds like someone that has never left the city of Indianapolis thinking that IndyCar is the most popular form of auto racing in the world.

On the subject of winged sprints at Lawrenceburg, I’d like to see them bring back the Hoosier Fall Classic first. See how it goes bringing back that race in addition to keeping the World of Outlaws show on Memorial Day, and possibly add a FAST series race sometime between those two shows. I know this is fantasy booking and it will never happen.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

In a reply to hoosier race fan, Indiana has maybe more racetracks than any other state. So, if you want to see sprints with wings or without wings one of these tracks will be running what you would want to see. I think any track that would be running sprint cars with wings every week would get to be boring. The most successful tracks in Indiana do not run the same class of racecars every week. There are exceptions like Lincoln Park which runs non-winged sprints every week, but they also run the 305-winged sprints some as an extra class. I started racing in the sixties with cars that I could afford like street stocks and a six-cylinder class till the IMCA mods came along. IMCA mod rules kept the engines affordable till UMP started racing mods.

Speaking from experience out west, the last thing you want to do is add non wing 360s.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Let's use Huset's for example:
World of Outlaws there three weeks ago. Attendance sold out.
USAC at Huset's this past weekend. Attendance embarrassing.

2022 winners:
WoO 15
USAC 9

2022 average car count:
WoO 36
USAC 29

2022 total purse payout so far:
WoO 2,225,075
USAC 514,910

Eldora this week for Historical Big One, Night Before King's Royal, and King's Royal will be near full capacity.
USAC there in September for the 4 Crown Nationals attendance will be at best 1/4 capacity.

Dirt ovals per state:
Kalifornia 35
Pennsylvania 33
Iowa 30
New York 27
Ohio 24
Minnesota 24
Wisconsin 23
Missouri 20
Tennesse 20
Texas 18
Nebraska 18
Indiana 17

Hate it when facts get in the way of an agenda.

It’s about money. As much I hate to agree with Chuck nug he’s exactly right. Now if they wanted to pay $2500 for a weekly show and had the bankroll to give it time to catch on, it would work. I’d buy wings for my cars and race there. But the motor maintenance and fuel consumption and tire wear are too costly to race for $1400

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Well despite half of this being apples and oranges Menusha.
What's it got to do in a Lawrenceburg thread?

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Scott, May I ask why? I mean I[m a full proponent of getting rid of the overlapping classes. But I see 410 racing on it's death bed.

We are at a point we're going to have to have motors that last two or three years. The idea model is like USAC is doing and have a D2 and 360 class and then They plug in a Toyota or 410.

But the facts are while those classes grow, Less are moving up than leaving. and you actually have a few moving to the less expensive class, then you get the track or two willing to put on the 5-10k 360 race, further removing incentive to move up

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

You forgot the blue font.

I was going to include that in my initial post. The burg would have to pay $2,500 to win and probably 300 to start. But I think winged cars are super fast at lawrenceburg and provide something different in indiana. I went to that WoO show at Kokomo a few years back and it was elbow to elbow packed house. And they put on a great show.
Charles mentioned Circle City, as I knew someone would, but they tried races on Thursday nights, and that track is just not very good for winged 410s. I think circle city is the perfect midget track. And I think they’re missing out on working with Montpelier to run D2 midgets every other week. But that’s just my opinion as well. Trust me, I wish I had boat loads of money, I’d buy every track and run it how I want…obviously I don’t though. So I just ask my friends on a racing forum if they agree or not. That’s what makes this place fun.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

On what earth are you seeing that people like non wing sprint cars more than winged cars? Did you see the attendance at Husets this past weekend? Im not trying to be an ass but i think its time us non winged guys come to reality and face the fact that non winged sprint cars are just not as popular as they used to be.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Have you see what wing 410 racing did to CA ?

Don't do it stay true to traditional 410 sprint car form.

I need somewhere to travel and see great racing haha.

Also the CA guys that don't want to run wing's need somewhere to move :34:

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Sad but true...
Although in Pa. there's a slight upsurge of interest in wingless. People get bored with wings too, & USAC East is doing OK...not nearly as well as wings, tho...

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

If you're gonna pay $2500 to win and $300 to start, then there's no need to move from sprints to winged sprints.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Well despite half of this being apples and oranges Menusha.
What's it got to do in a Lawrenceburg thread?

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Because I mentioned 360 as a option and he responded that you don't want to do that.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Thats probably the option we're looking for. Make the gate 25 adults, free for kids and pay well in top ten.
I say that for kids as they'll eat the concession stand dry but it's better than not having them there at all. Future fans of the sport and racers.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

I couldn't agree more. Sprints are divided up enough

I was saying this would have to be the minimum payout for a winged show. We’ve already seen it over and over again that big paying shows in Indiana never seem to have more cars.
And before anyone tries to correct me about Putnamville having 50+ cars, that was a two day show and the ONLY show in the state on Friday. Plus it was two sanctioning bodies.
Meanwhile, at Rockcrest earlier in the year, BOSS had 14 cars for $3,000 to win and $300 to start.
Terre Haute had 17 for $3,000 to win.

Last weekend:
Paragon had 16 for $2,000 to win Putnamville had 27 for $1,400 to win.

So more money doesn’t mean more cars. In fact, it seems to be the opposite.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Charles, I am nothing against a low cost entry level class, but 360s are anything but that anymore. The days of buying a $%#@ box 360 and running it forever are long gone. Top of the line 360s are not much cheaper than a 410 anymore and are not much cheaper to maintain. You will get some people who would normally be running for 410s dropping down. And many new drivers who would have gotten into a 410in bygone days, now may opt for easier competition in a 360.

Not sure how many years ago USAC introduced the West Coast 360 class out here, but I told an older well-known gentleman in racing, who was much wiser than me, that it would be a feeder series for USAC/CRA. He laughed at me and told me it would do anything but help. I disagreed, but if he was still here, I would now tell him he was 100% right.

A look at the top 10 in USAC/CRA points today. At most - and I am not 100% sure of them - two raced the West Coast Series before graduating to USAC/CRA.

Do not get me wrong, the racing is good and there are some very good drivers in the West Coast Series. I would prefer seeing them run 410 so we could have larger car counts. But, to each their own. For those who prefer to run 360s or 410s, more power to them on their choices.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

Thanks Scott

I've been trying for three years to book a Racesaver race at Lawrenceburg. It's a tough track to break into for sure. I know this forum thinks of 305s as the red headed step child but I really think we have a place around here. We tested at the Burg with my car a few years ago and we were hauling ass around there.

Car counts this year are a little down but steady even with the economy being what it is.

We race just about everywhere else and almost always put on really good shows. We race at a lot more tracks than just Spiker tracks.

Racesavers would be fine at the burg as well. But not as a headliner class.
And at Circle City the racesavers put on a better race than the 410s.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

THey had one once, Put up a thousand to win. Both Bloomington and Atomic were off. I think ten cars showed. That;s just my memory of it.

Re: Lawrenceburg thought
 

$20 isn't the price point for a weekly show...let alone $25...you would get folks that might be curious in the beginning...but you show me a weekly track that charges $25 grandstands every week every show from April to September and I'll show you a closed race track by mid-July...

No track that runs winged 410's weekly charges $20-$25 to get in, why would The Burg?

Look the facts are non wing do not draw outside of Indiana. I went to Friday WoO -Saturday USAC show at Eldora once. The place had half the fans on Saturday. Once the WoO left so did the fans. I couldn't believe the difference in the crowd. That's the truth.

As far as 360's go, screw em. I think 360's are the worst thing to happen to sprint cars in a long time. All it did was create more division with two classes that are far to similar. If you want an entry level sprint class 305's have proven a better option.

Or steel blocks!
Or D2 midgets, how about that, Jim Jones?

You are correct,14 cars entered and Eric Smith won in the #14. However that was more than a few years ago, 2015 I think, when the class was just getting started in this area. We have around 50 cars ready to race between Ohio and Indiana these days. Of those, there seems to be about 30 that can be counted on to show up if the location and money is right.

I am confident that if we have a co-sanctioned event at Lawrenceburg between the two divisions for $1000 to win and $200 to start we would see 30 cars.

I agree that our best role at the Burg would be as a support class though. We fit well in that role at several other tracks already.