Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

I look at some of these feature lengths and wonder, Why do they allow this? Do they think it's helping the product? The sooner a show is over the more will go back and buy t shirts etc. Some of these features lasting a hour,

Seriously. So and so has a flat, So he gets two minutes. Just as he comes back another has a flat and pulls in, so he gets two minutes. Add in a fuel stop because of all this has made those cars that never stop reach the fuel window under yellow.

At least make it a work only under red and if your not back by the time the lineup is right. You're done.

What say you? Both fan and competitor? Drama or action?

I think it adds both drama and action. The drama that something happened, then the drama of will they be able to get it fixed in time, then the drama of how far will they be able to advance when they restart in the back. There's action of getting to/from the work area, the action in the work area, then the action when they try to advance as far as they can.

I think most people at the races are there for the aforementioned action and drama, not necessarily to buy tshirts. So I think most fans would rather have the action and drama that work areas provide over the extra 2 minutes to buy tshirts.

Sometimes I get sick of yellows and work areas too, but overall I think the good outweighs the bad.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

So we are going to tell the team "We know Hoosier sold you a defective tire but too bad you get to finish 22nd tonight."

So it's an extra 16 minutes added to the race if say eight cars need repairs I can live with that. Have to keep teams on the road and a fair chance to earn as many points/money as they can each night.

Personally I find it pretty amazing some teams can replace a whole front axle assembly in 2 minutes.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

I'm with you completely Charles. Both as a former competitor and now as a spectator, I hate all of the delays in the show for this sort of stuff. Stuff happens and sometimes you get a flat or break something. If you fix it and get back out before the green that's one thing, but all of this extra time or two minutes for this and two minutes for that is just a waste of time for the fans and tthe rest of the competitors.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by opnwhlmnd:
So we are going to tell the team "We know Hoosier sold you a defective tire but too bad you get to finish 22nd tonight."

So it's an extra 16 minutes added to the race if say eight cars need repairs I can live with that. Have to keep teams on the road and a fair chance to earn as many points/money as they can each night.

Personally I find it pretty amazing some teams can replace a whole front axle assembly in 2 minutes.

Ya know, I get the points racer wanting to finish as high as possible. But most time's all it ads is cost to the teams and time on the night.

We used to start racing at 830 and be done at 10-10:30. It was two spins, You're out and if you broke. including a tire. You're done.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

I came up when you broke, bent, or had a flat, you finished down the lineup. The drama was could you erase the point loss next race. I wish we could limit responses to this post to those under the age of 40. They are the future of our sport. Do they like the show to move along at a natural pace or do they prefer the artificial lengthening of the night with "work area drama" opportunities throughout a feature race. Their opinion carries so much weight on this question as they are more prone to stream racing. PS. Not a controversy, but a legit issue for many older fans if the nights continue to get too long, whose drive home is hours+, vs streaming live/on demand. Ultimately, fan attendance will decide which is the better choice.

I'm completely over work areas period!

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

I also hate work areas. It completely ruins the flow of the show. It makes sense to have them for a red flag, but not for a yellow.

Have you thought about putting starters on them?

That too would move the show along.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

How about we leave the work area like it is and have a show with less than eight classes?
Or, how about we start on time?
Or, how about we move the show along, like maybe no intermission when it's 10 o'clock at night?
When Ray Toft ran Wilmot, in all classes, if you were not lined up in the chute by the white flag of the race before you, you started on the tail.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

The biggest issue I have with work areas and time limits.....the time limits are too easy to manipulate by the sanctioning body of the event. Do not even try and tell me all drivers and teams are treated the same, because it is simply not true.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by nodramazone20:
The biggest issue I have with work areas and time limits.....the time limits are too easy to manipulate by the sanctioning body of the event. Do not even try and tell me all drivers and teams are treated the same, because it is simply not true.

For sure about favoritism but its been happening for as long as I've been going to sporting events.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

From my perspective, it all started with the World of Outlaws. The track operator/local promoter paid a sanctioning fee to present "the Greatest Show on Dirt" to his audience, and if one of those stars had a mishap, we were going to wait for him to try to fix it and get him back on the track. After all, that's what the people paid to see. Thus the advent of the "war wagon" with all the spare and standardized parts. It was NEVER a part of a weekly show. You had a problem, you went to the trailer.

Now, you see it everywhere, because the Outlaws did it. I understand the need to make sure the fans get to see the premier drivers, but it is unfair to the competitors who's cars aren't so lightweight that every little bump knocks down a tire, or bends a wheel. Reliability should also be a factor in racing. Otherwise, let's have competition reds at every race to make sure everyone is ready for a green/white/checkered finish (something else I hate...)

And yes, that "two minute" work area clock runs pretty fast when it's "Local Joe", but when it's "Traveling Superstar", the clock never seems to start...

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by Will Shunk:
. I wish we could limit responses to this post to those under the age of 40.

How many people under 40 actually post here?

How long do most features last if green to checker, 10 minutes or less for an average show? There is all kinds of dead time at a dirt track, adding a few more minutes due to the work area is not what is causing late nights at the track. I don’t mind getting to see a fast car come back to the rear of the field and race their way to the front. Adds some more excitement to that short racing time.

If it is over 2 other divisions besides the traveling groups that I have a problem with. Not a couple extra minutes in a work area. I have cheered and cursed waiting on someone lol.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

signal the start of the timer ( what ever is set by the rule ) when the car stops in the work area. No one touches the car until that signal is given Timer is not dependent on anything happening on the track. give a signal 30 seconds before the end of the timer. When the time is up signal again, hands off the car, push off or go to the trailer.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

If they keep the show moving, run the advertised class feature first, then I don't mind it. It does add a bit of drama. That's just my two cents.


But if I've driven 2+ hours for a race and then they unnecessarily drag out the evening...running 2-4 other classes before the advertised feature class that I drove 2 hours to see, starting their feature after 11p... then work areas can be annoying.

Run less classes (3 is my vote), have better track prep resulting in less rework through the night, don't make the race cars have to mud pack, start on time and only the title class gets work area time up until half way through the race.

Too many tracks rely on back gate income and accept low attendance in the front gate.

Age: 32

If a track runs any number/size of divisions causing shows to take 3 + hours, they might put the races on flo, put the order of events online, run the A division feature first, and keep the ticket window open for fans showing up for just the features. Make it work for participants and fans of the biggest draw.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

It can be cool watching crews change a ton of stuff in a short amount of time to get the car back out. It also is cool seeing drivers overcome flats like Gravel did on Saturday to come from deep in the field to 2nd. But I'd be in favor of capping the type of work you can do in the work area to tires, wings and small suspension stuff. Just because you can change an axle in 2 minutes doesn't mean it's always possible, and then you get into the favortism angle of giving certain guys more time than others.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

The high profile divisions need the work area, this is there jobs, their income, a junk tire blown from something on the track or a badly made tire should NOT end their night! It should not ruin their chance at more $$ due to something not in their control. On the local level, if the track has a good points pay out, you have to have something in place for at least part of the A so you keep your car counts since things are so expensive, you can't just let a junk tire that caused by so many issues the teams cant control end their night. It would be like there is an accident on the road to your work and instead of going around the long way to get there, you are told sorry you are done for the day since you have one chance to get here and you didn't on this attempt so you are parked for the day now.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by Duane Hancock:
The high profile divisions need the work area, this is there jobs, their income, a junk tire blown from something on the track or a badly made tire should NOT end their night! It should not ruin their chance at more $$ due to something not in their control. On the local level, if the track has a good points pay out, you have to have something in place for at least part of the A so you keep your car counts since things are so expensive, you can't just let a junk tire that caused by so many issues the teams cant control end their night. It would be like there is an accident on the road to your work and instead of going around the long way to get there, you are told sorry you are done for the day since you have one chance to get here and you didn't on this attempt so you are parked for the day now.

Yet all these high profile divisions existed perfectly fine without em and the same ones are dictating use of a brand currently producing some junk tires.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

1st. i think all prompters should stay home 1 week and watch there races on tv ,then go back and regroup,track prep.,removing accidents from track,.4 wheelers blocking the accidents from the wreckers.and so on.
2nd the work area rule should be abolished,not fair to the guy running 10th thru 15th to have to run 10 extra laps on the yellow to wait for a guy that is going to take a spot away from him or wrecking him doing so later. $00.02

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Charles, years ago most of the teams was getting handed extras under the table by the series promoters too to keep them on the tour. Now days too many people crying to let that happen so you gotta give them a break somewhere if you want any cars. Maybe you like shows with 15 cars, I dont

I’m headed to Huset’s for the first time. Maybe some wing guys can grow a pair and show up to their home track for good money. Problem solved.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by Duane Hancock:
Charles, years ago most of the teams was getting handed extras under the table by the series promoters too to keep them on the tour. Now days too many people crying to let that happen so you gotta give them a break somewhere if you want any cars. Maybe you like shows with 15 cars, I dont

Oh I know, But how's it fair to local racer who think's he has a shot? I mean Gravel has a flat. and others so local racer is up in top ten, Good money, Here comes Gravel and others on new tires and local racer is back to sixteenth. Nevermind Local racer could never pull off a axle change. wing changes etc in alotted time.

It's also dangerous if you ask me. It was a CRA race early 90s Eric Gordon pitted next to us at Eldora. Feature, Gordon leading by a straightaway flips down the back straight. RED Flag as others had spun to miss etc. The tow Gordon back to pit. Dozen guys from his crew, Staabs crew and others get new front axel, bars, couple tires etc back on car before they got lineup and pushed off right. Well CRA had a rule, YOU FLIP YOU'RE DONE! good thing too, They black-flagged Gordon, He pulls in to pit and the whole steering box falls in his lap. That rule certainly prevented another caution and possibly prevented injury to Gordon and others.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Hate the work area and the blatant favoritism. I also don't like them changing a flat tire. Depending on the track surface, that car now has a distinct advantage over other cars on old tires.

I think I would 🤔call it an unnecessary evil, and could definitely do without it, if it were part of the plan and everyone had to stop, then it wouldn't be a sprint race, everyone starts with the same odds, if one burns a tire before the rest, he's out and everyone moves up, as it has been forever, I think it's a negative in racing."NEXT "!

My only thought is the 2 minutes in the work area is much more entertaining when you can watch it, as opposed to sitting in the stands without visual access

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by flagboy55:
My only thought is the 2 minutes in the work area is much more entertaining when you can watch it, as opposed to sitting in the stands without visual access

I love those drone shots of the crew working!

How about if tracks have the work area timer displayed for all to see. Like the scale weight at Eldora. Then everyone will know when the clock starts and stops and will make the (obvious, and everyone knows it happens) favoritism harder.

Why not just drop it altogether, we all know who it favors the most, it's not rocket science, the guys that put on the show most, aren't likely to make use of it, they have learned to conserve what they have, and make it last, plus they usually don't have a good spare or the crew to change it, but they'll be there to entertain us because they love it. I still am not in favor of the rule.

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

Originally Posted by ThrowbackRacingTeam:
I’m headed to Huset’s for the first time. Maybe some wing guys can grow a pair and show up to their home track for good money. Problem solved.

I will answer the part about the 410 guy from Husets grow a pair begonias and racing this weekend . Let's just say there's a better chance of it snowing then that happening . As for the work area part I'm old school there never used to be a work area . And I don't think there should be one now . You get a flat tire go to the trailer you crash go to the trailer same rule for everyone no ifs ands or buts . As a former driver and a track official(assistant flagman & flagman at Jackson speedway Jackson Mn). Now spectator in the stands it's the best & fairest way

I agree, no work area. Might speed things up, save money and maybe keep more cars from being tore up if they know they dont have a chance of getting back out?

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

What about the Big Cars? If it was your decision would you stop allowing tire changes? How many times has a midrace tire change resulted in a pretty high finishing spot?

Re: Controversial post. Get rid of work areas and race.
 

I think the Big Cars are a different animal...they are at their own peril to lose laps and continue...they're not delaying the show by 60-120 seconds and necessarily causing extra cautions just to get that extra time...

Let me throw this one at you...

When I worked with MOWA...we got the privilege of running Haubstadt once a year. Our guys really liked it. And we had basically a Little Springfield "you leave the track you're done" rule at the time.

A couple of our regulars, I think it was Urish and Tripplett, got into a deal on the first lap of the feature. They weren't upset about spending money in the work area on a new tire to get back out...they were furious that it was our only shot to race on that stage and we were 4.5 hours from home - and they had capable guys that would have been ready to change a tire (and I think for Urish even part of the front end) - they wanted at least an opportunity to get back into the race. And 11th-20th still paid $200, which is probably where they would have finished. They just wanted to get their money's worth for the investment of fuel and time to go down there...and race the place for 25 laps. Yeah...we said at the time, then don't crash on the first lap, which I'm sure wasn't popular - but that's the other side of the argument. Don't put yourself in that position - which is also easier said than done mid-pack in a 410 on the initial start going into turn one at Haubstadt...

The next year, we had a 60 second one-time work area time after the first car got there. At least in my time there, we never hit a fuel clock. And I never felt like having the work area detracted from our shows.

Go to a Late Model race lol...they pull up lame and half throttle...for some reason get the caution...and go make a shock adjustment. That drives me nuts...