Kokomo winged races
 

Just wondering why Kokomo doesn’t have any winged races scheduled this year. The outlaw race I attended there was the best races I’ve seen at the track. Just confusing as to why they wouldn’t reschedule an event that was too successful (think they announced biggest Kokomo crowd ever) and I believe it! They have so many open dates on the schedule wish they could’ve fit it onto the schedule. Kokomo needs more winged races!

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

It is not just Kokomo, it is the entire state of Indiana. The All Stars are not racing in Indiana even though their headquarters are in Brownsburg and many of their top drivers are from Indiana. The World of Outlaws have no remaining dates in Indiana this year. They had two races, one in Lawrenceburg and another at Haubstadt, which last time I looked at a map were barely in the state and far from central Indiana. It is like we have been blacklisted for being a non-wing state. MOWA didn't come here either. The initial WoO schedule did not have any Indiana dates for 2022.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Because winged racing is dead and NW not far behind

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

In terms of support. Non-Wing racing has always been big in Indiana. I think the All-Stars & the Outlaws (wing) racing have a niche here only racing in the state a few times a year. I like the 305 group here in Indiana. I think their races are good and most nights they bring a decent field with them.


Here is a good question to see what everyone thinks?

LET'S USE KOKOMO SPEEDWAY FOR EXAMPLE.

When the 410 Wing Sprints race at Kokomo are the grandstands just as packed and crowded as they are for the Kokomo Sprint Car Smackdown?

If Kokomo raced Wing-Sprints weekly would there be as many fans in the grandstands as there would be for Non-Wing shows?

I have been to the Saturday portion of the Smackdown twice and that show to me is well attended by the fans just like an outlaw or all-star race.


I'm curious to know what other people think as well.

You’re 100% correct about the last 2 WOO race’s at Kokomo, great race’s and huge crowds. There’s a couple things that lined up to make them huge successes however. But I’ll give you a reason why there’s not more. They had a $26,000 to win race at Kokomo as part of a 3 race weekend in Indiana for the Allstars. I went to that race. Loaded up early and headed south to get to the track hours before figuring we would have a hard time finding a good parking spot. I was wrong. I’ve seen bigger crowds there for many other races. I’m of the opinion that the Allstar race’s are as good as the Outlaws. Whether it lives up to the hype or not the Outlaw brand sells like no other sprint car series. In actuality, Kokomo bailed them out a couple times around the stupidity that is covid, but I’ve heard the ******** of booking an Outlaw race are not always forthright. But just a reply to Charles about N/W dying, I don’t see it that way unless you look from the perspective that the criminals running our country are trying to kill everything, especially the working middle class of America

Dang Charles, I sure hope you were being sarcastic. If not, may I suggest you turn off the news, ignore social media for awhile and just go enjoy a race somewhere. Then when you get home, DO NOT read anybody's comments about whatever race you attended. If you enjoyed yourself it doesn't matter if somebody else's hot dog was cold or that the street stock race had a bunch of cautions, etc. I've said this before, sometimes us racefans are our own worst enemies. To everbody: please enjoy your weekend. Sorry that this is mostly off topic.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Not at all sarcastic. It's dying a slow death. Picked apart by two many tracks and sanctions trying to run at the same time and too many classes that don't feed the top tier. only takes away from it.

Prodigy, that’s the best post ever on IOW! Focus 😆😆😆😆😆

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Getting back to the original topic…

IN MY OPINION, part of what makes the WoO races so successful when they do run in Indiana is the fact that there are very limited opportunities to see them in the state. We were at the Tri-State race in April, and the crowd there was the biggest I think I’ve seen there, and if not, certainly one of the biggest. I’m not sure you would see the huge attendance for the WoO races if they regularly appeared in IN. There attendance in IN is a novelty, and I think they like to keep it that way.

As to the other question posed about tracks running winged sprints, I BELIEVE most IN tracks running weekly sprint cars at some point or another in the latter 70’s and 80’s all switched their weekly program to winged sprint cars from non-winged, but after a relatively short period of time, switched back. I am not sure whether they switched back due to decreasing attendance or decreasing car counts or both, but as I recall, the experiment was relatively short lived for most that tried it.

There should be more but I’m not sure how many more. The WoO should have a yearly date at Kokomo and probably one at Terre Haute (although you could argue once every 2 years makes as much sense). That would give them 3-4 a year which I think would be well supported. The All Stars could also probably do with 1-2 shows as well. I think 5-6 winged shows makes sense for the state given that it’s still a NW state regardless of how well the Outlaws draw in it.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

I agree there were only 30 plus sprints last night at the WOO race and at least 5% of the seats empty, ASCOC only had 40 cars and there were a few seats open, only about 5000 bought tickets,Williams Grove had less than 9000 fans and less than 50 sprints for a weekly show.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Circle City tried to run a weekly wing program last year. It did not work. They couldn't get a decent car count. They even contacted several non wing teams, ourselves included, to ask why we would not put on a wing and come race. Our answer was, we only have non wing cars and no wings to bolt on because we don't care to run wing cars. Then they asked if we would support them if they ran non wing. Well most certainly, except they switched to Sunday nights, and I have to be at work at 9:30 Sunday evening, so that doesn't work for us either.https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/ima...thumbsdown.gif

Perhaps he posted that because of your blatant history of introducing ******** into this forum. I made that mistake, and have refrained because I enjoy this site for the racing subject matter. There are lots of sites devoted to ********, obviously given the title of this one it is not one of those.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Back to the original post. LBurg and Haubstadt took their promotion in house Have dates that work for them and is more often than not a success.. It's a risky move with close too if not more a hundred grand for purse sanction and guaranteed promotion $$ Before Webb many tracks had committed All star dates. some two a year.

Recently the other races held were done by a promotion company leasing the tracks, Kokomo or Bloomington. Not sure what this price was to lease the tracks but they have all that $$$ in purse, sanction etc to pay on top of it, get none of the concession $ so it's all on ticket and pit pass sales and it's either successful or not.

I imagine it is. But maybe not as successful as tracks that can draw and seat more people than what we have. Also maybe once every three to five years or so.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

As far as the wing shows at Kokomo recently, the track was rented to someone else. I was told by someone close to the promotional team, that the Outlaws didn't want to come back. Not sure why. As far the All Stars go, my guess is they were not profitable. My guess is they were probably a year away from being profitable, as the All Stars seemed to be on the rise.

I read somewhere it was a safety issue. I’m not a driver obviously and tend not to judge them for those things as they are the ones risking their lives. However I don’t know why Kokomo is considered dangerous if that’s the reason why they didn’t want to come back.

The great thing about it is, as long as we have Smackdown and Sprint Week, I really don’t care if they come back

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Well the fence isn't good enough for one. Im not knocking it but seen a car go out and a axle come thru it landing near a handicap fan in a wheel chair.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Boom!!! Post of this thread. Well done.

Speaking of promotional team and Smackdown, i’d like to reiterate my apologies to Josh Spencer from last year. The work he’s done to get more local involvement with one of the greatest dirt tracks in the nation deserves/ deserved more recognition. The thought that businesses should be filling HIS voicemail to be involved rather than he being the one to track down businesses was not articulated very well on my part post Smackdown X. Man, do i wish that one was rephrased from the jump.

Considering how much WoO used Lil Haud’s move in the dash for promotion, the irony of them not wanting to come back would be… well, rich.

As far as the fence being sub par. If it’s too dangerous, maybe they could make it an invitational only?

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

I've been to maybe a half dozen winged shows at Kokomo, WoO, All Stars, SOD, GLOSS, and they have all been GREAT !

Personally, I would be very receptive to them, and the non-wing status quo does not have to suffer. Kokomo just needs a few more dates. They do not run weekly. It is up to Jim and the crew to stage the events.

We, Indiana Racesavers, have a winged race at Kokomo October 15th for the Klash. Outlaws are badass at Kokomo for sure, and pretty much anywhere really. Obviously we can't hold a candle to the outlaws or all stars but we still turn faster laps then the nw 410 guys almost always and put on good shows. I'm biased of course. Either way hope you all check us out sometime.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

You know that fence came from the IndyCar track that was in Chicago. It was built to the specs of the engineer. I do remember Hopkins clearing it in the turn, but don't remember an axle landing near someone in a wheelchair. When was this?

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

It was near the old pit grandstand. He was sitting off to the side of it and a axle landed right next him in is wheelchair. His name is Danny and is a former sprint racer I said I wasn't knocking it, I seen the same thing happen at atomic front stretch.

The front straight at Kokomo has good fence but what was over there was pasture square fencing. I also feel safe in the back stretch. I also remember Ballou or someone jumping thru the fence over there to get to a flip at a smackdown or something

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Condo's are in it and a brewery restaurant in the old power building. Building a new bridge down there and taking out all but one turn on the road considering ten times the traffic comes thru here than when I was a kid coming up to my cousins. It's well beyond time for that horse trail to be modernized

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

I have been to every smackdown except last year. Don't remember that. Which one were you at? Don't remember seeing you

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

I think the Woo have several tracks they like to visit every 3-4 years. They make it a super special event that they are there and then it is off the schedule again. I think Kokomo is one of them, Fremont, OH is another, along with a few others. Would love to see the Woo back at Bloomington.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Ask Danny Pollock, he posted the pic of the axle right next to him and his chair. I also said smackdown or something. It was a USAC show Im pretty sure that Ballou jumped thru the fence to get to a accident sceen.. No, I haven't been up there since I think 2018 for the Grand Prix.

Why the one-upmanship? And pointing out a safety issue is wrong? The solution doesn't necessarily cost much at all. (No standing or walking within10-25 feet of those areas) They've made vast improvements. I was not intending to diss Kokomo only pointed out one possible reason. Even WRG changed it's own fencing at Vollusia when cars exited the track.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

The whole area you are talking about was blocked off to spectators at the 2022 opener.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

I joined IOW in August of 2012. I have a Word document of all of the races I have attended since 2014. Somewhere in 2012 or 2013 I remember Robert Ballou having a HUGE wreck in Turn 1, resulting in a few flips. If memory serves me correctly (I do not have it in my Word document) I think he clipped the opening in the wall at the pit entrance and Levi Jones may have been involved, but don't quote me on the last part.

Anyways, after bouncing off the fence and flipping a few times, his car was upside down almost at the apex of Turns 1 and 2 and the throttle was hung wide open. No one had any idea what his condition was but one of the track workers/officials immediately shimmied under the car to the cockpit and killed the engine with the kill switch. It was the greatest moment of bravery I have ever seen at a track.

But both of Ballou's rear wheels were turning full blast for about 10-15 seconds. The axle was still in place. Robert was all right.

One could find this incident on IOW if one wishes to search for it. The track worker even responded for I asked how he killed the engine. But it was probably the biggest shunt I have ever seen at Kokomo since going there in 1995 for the first time.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Thank you. and thank Kokomo speedway.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

That was the 2012 Smackdown. I caught up with Robert the next Friday night or 2 weeks later,I cant remember now, at Gas City and gave him $100.00 for hard luck award from our "Smackdown" awards...

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/sho...9&postcount=20

I cant speak of why The WoO or The AllStars doesn't come here every year, as they did every year when I was a kid, 80s and early to mid 90s. It's one of, if not the nicest, safest tracks, in Indiana and the Midwest, like it or not. As far as the fencing goes...when I was a kid, we were all sitting in the back of my late Father's pickup truck on the backstretch (yes it was allowed back then). No disrespect to previous owners but the track, fence, cars, everything, was nowhere near as safe as it is in today's world. John Mapes come hot into 3, Yellow #5, and straight up launched over us, over multiple other spectators and their vehicles, clear up over BOTH fences and BAM right into KG's grain building landing in the driveway to the backstretch. To this day, and that was late 80s - early 90s, the panel on KG's grain building is still a different shade/color. No fence would have kept him "in the ballpark". No fence will ever keep every single car in the ballpark unless the entire track is enclosed and that's highly unlikely due to Aviation Rights. Maybe it's a safety issue that us diehards and regulars and even the owners and track officials are unaware of, but I'd have to see it in writing that the fence is why WoO and The AllStars didnt come back this year. I do not buy that for one minute. My OPINION.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Aviation rights?

I'm not gonna waste my time explaining that. If you dont know about laws and rights with planes and choppers, I'd start with FAA.

Re: Kokomo winged races
 

Let us all get back on track with the topic. We have gone parallel, perpendicular, and sideways. Me included.