Too Much??
 

This Saturday we’re going to see just how many sprint cars are actually out there. There is 4, FOUR, options just in the state of Indiana. Lincoln Park, Paragon, Lawrenceburg and MSCS at Tri State all running. Then on top of it, USAC is on the road in Missouri. Is this bad for sprint car racing? Or is it maybe a good thing for sprint car racing? I know as a fan, it gives you a lot of options to stay close to home. Race teams as well.

It’s always been this way in Indiana and there’s always been enough cars to go around. The low budget guys will go to where they think they’ll have the best shot to win so sometimes just when you think a place won’t have very many show up, they do. We’ll see though.

Re: Too Much??
 

Three tracks running fri night with USAC out west as well. Rockcrest, Gas city. bloomington.


Burg has kept it's King of the Midwest on the schedule for the third week running to try to payout this purse 2500 to win 250 to start 100 tow. MSCS is a higher than normal purse at Haubstadt as well. USAC out west

And sunday Circle City

Throwback, it may have always been this way in Indiana, but now there’s not nearly as many cars to go around. Supply chain issues, tire shortages and fuel prices are keeping lots of cars in the garages already. But like you said, we’ll see.

Re: Too Much??
 

15 or 20 sprints is enough for a good race. Bloomington will have a special mod race paying big money.

Re: Too Much??
 

WAR is also racing Friday night at Grain Valley Speedway in Eastern Kansas City and Lucas Oil Speedway in Wheatland Mo Saturday night ( both nights with the POWRI National Midgets) splitting the cars up for the USAC Missouri swing

Re: Too Much??
 

For those outside of KC, there are two wingless groups. WAR which was mentioned and MWRA. The MWRA races under the USAC brand and is considered a regional series. The three races this weekend in Missouri are listed on the MWRA schedule.

For the most part last year, WAR and MWRA played nice and did not schedule on top of each other. I even remember that at the end of the year that they did schedule against one another and one of the series cancelled their race to avoid the conflict. It will be interesting to see what series draws what.

We are eating our own.

Between the weather and the tire pandemic, poor folks don't have a chance 😢.

Re: Too Much??
 

I have been saying for ever that oversaturation is the biggest threat to sprint cars in Indiana. 30 years ago every track pretty much had its own cars. Most only raced 1 track, and the season was much shorter. Very few local teams have the budget to race 60 times a year. When technology increased, and the price of motors etc went up, it has been a problem. Good thing is with the wet spring, not many are blown up or out of money yet.

Re: Too Much??
 

31 cars for the USAC show

Re: Too Much??
 

I've been debating on whether or not to post on this topic even before cmiracingvids started this thread. A little disclaimer before I do - I work at Lawrenceburg Speedway. These are solely my opinions on the state of nonwing sprint racing and are not necessarily the views or opinions of said track.

My fear today is that the fans have a minimum car count that is acceptable to them and once we hover around that car count for too long, they won't come to the track anymore. Sure, they'll still show up in droves for Sprint Week and other marquee events because they know what to expect - that they will see a quality product with a full field. But other race nights? They can sit at home in their recliner, drink their own beer and watch a race on Flo, Dirtvision, etc. They won't have to worry about people marking seats the day before, if they can bring in a cooler, or alcohol, if it's going to get rained out, if the track will be too dusty, people will smoke near them or complain when they smoke, if they can bring in their stadium chair, etc.

There are not enough sprint cars to make all tracks and sanctioning bodies successful right now. Where are the cars going to come from to support 9-10 races over a 3-day weekend in Indiana?

I used to work at Bloomington Speedway. I remember having to run a B Main almost every night. And that was with Gas City running the same night, and they had a full field as well. To make sure I wasn't just being nostalgic, and thinking things were so much better back then, I randomly picked 15 years ago, 2007, and started looking at race results and car counts.

Indiana sprint car racing was so much healthier in 2007.

Bloomington had 56 cars for their season-opening Elliottbrand Clash, 52 for the Sheldon Kinser Memorial! They averaged 29.17 for their other 12 non sanctioned races. Paragon used the format where they split the field into multiple features and their average car count was 46.42 with a high count of 74! Lincoln Park averaged right at 30 cars. Lawrenceburg had 30 or more cars almost every race - six races the car count topped 40.

We are just a handful of races into the 2022 race season and car counts are nowhere near 2007 totals. There are so many conflicts, races scheduled on top of each other, that it would take forever to list them all.

I fear that not only will we find out how much is too much, but also how few is too few.

Re: Too Much??
 

Perhaps the post of the year! Stated with facts and I believe dead on. Thanks for all you do Sandy!

Re: Too Much??
 

Sandy, if you have the time or chance, what were the numbers for 3 or 5 years later. I really think the recession and gas prices then was a heavy blow to racing. Here in STL, the revered I-55 speedway would get 30+ late models weekly back then with Highland Speedway, less than an hour from there, getting 20 or more. Now the two tracks work together and run LM's every other week at their tracks just to maybe get 20+/- cars. I'm thankful we still have cars and tracks now after being shut down in 2020.

Re: Too Much??
 

Indeed post of the year and said so much better than I could ever say it. When I say something, Somebody's feelings are hurt. A team, a promoter, a track. whatever. It's never meant that way, Always meant to improve the product and experience. And sometimes (Probably a lot) I'M WRONG.

There are some die hard facts in this sport. Tracks have leases or payments, I think only one is owned outright (Haubstadt) They have astronomical utility bills and now double prep cost. They have to order the food beforehand with no guarantee it will sell before spoiling (Weather, low crowd etc.) If they open the gates they have a big insurance payment as well as payroll and must somehow cover the purse. Fans or no fans. And after all thats over, If they broke even or made a profit, They have to hope that both the fans and racers are satisfied and want to come back.

Racers, Well there are just too damn many classes IMHO, Sprints, 305 race saver 305 attica/fremont, 360 ASCS, 360 open, three or four classes of mods. street stock vs bomber and several variations of both and then there is the crate version of all of it. Late Models? we'll they've dilluted themselves to the point where a fan will only hit a couple shows a month and thats LUCAS, WoO or a special. Tracks like Florence, Brownstown and other stallwarts no longer get big car or fan counts on local shows.

Simple fact is, It cost the same to tow to the track, same in pit passes and several other things FOR EVERY CLASS. Sometimes even the econo class cost more in fuel to race a night than a NW 410 sprint.

Why not eliminate half the classes? Those that still want to race will move up or down

Why not tracks work together to put together Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun? Alternate weeks? Run a Wed or thurs special? I know, It's all risk. Where's the creativity? The $500 for a first time winner? The realistic extra 1000 if you could win both nights in your class at two tracks (Thats 500 per track that is rarely going to have to be paid out, just on odds)

We all say, Don't let the race track close. There are a few that have been here for decades, ran sprints on the same night for decades and always paid the advertised purse. SUPPORT THEM. Im sorry if I see added shows that don't pay well as a detriment. But every car that isn't at Bloomington or Gas City tonight is actually hurting them. Both have opened and closed over the last several years. IN THE GOOD TIMES. Adding shows against them is just self destruction in the long run.

There are dates a successful non detrimental race could be run. Pick those, there's nothing wrong with it.

I used to go to three races a week, made crap money but it was doable. Id go to Whitewater on Fri for sprint shows they held, Florence and crewed on Bombers then a LM LM on Sat and Sunday I'd go to Burg for LM's Mods or Eldora or Findlay if they were running. Now Im at a point I can make one every other week and the ticket price is the least of my worries when it comes to cost.

Everyone who can make a race or more than one this week, GO, Have fun, I will. I'll enjoy last night and tonight on FLO, I'll be at a track saturday. Hope it's a good show and even if it's just so so, better than sitting at the TV. There's six nights of the week for that and no much of that's good.

I have been wrong and seriously wrong. I bashed a support class that actually fed full up 410 racers. We need that, maybe not every week but a few times a year.

I also grew up in a time we had both sprints and lms both needed consi's and a support class. those were the days.

Thank You Sandy for everything you do for Lawrenceburg and on here as well, especially the results for people like myself and others that dont always get to travel that far due to work, health, family, etc.

What is funny about this is the late Dave Cassady, Tony Hulman Assistant and GM of second generation 16th Street Speedway told me once in the 50s if a sprint car show had 18 cars it was a great field

Re: Too Much??
 

Burg early seventies I think would only have a couple heats worth. But they did run a fast car dash and started the fast qualifiers at the rear. Sorry I was only eight, But I remember that much and Dick Gaines, Gilstrap, Willkerson and others became my favorites because they passed a lot of cars.

There’s only 11 sprints at Rockcrest.

20 at Bloomington.

Re: Too Much??
 

62 sprints showed up to race on a friday night in indiana Non Wing, We thank you all for doing so.

I promote the Racesaver series here in Indiana. Not totally on topic but 18 cars is the perfect number for a track promoter. 3 heats and a feature, No B-main to slow down the show, and 18 cars is cheaper to pay out than 20-24. Just food for thought.

On topic, sort of, I honestly believe our class fits in well as several things. Support class for sprints, check. Support class for a late model or mod night, check. Headliner class at tracks that don't traditionally run sprints, check. Cheaper to payout for promoters, engines last longer, and several drivers "graduate" up into the 410 stuff anyway so it is a good stepping stone. Obviously I'm biased though. 🙂

Anyway we had a good night tonight at Gas City, 16 cars (just shy of the magic number). 25 fast laps, lots of passing on top and bottom, and only two quick cautions. Great crowd up there tonight and we got to run first since the 410's had a b-main so everyone got to see our show. I hope they all enjoyed it!

-Alfred G.

Re: Too Much??
 

Sprint cars up through the 50s and 60s were home built shade tree and master craftsmen creations. Gradually the go fast parts were mass produced( suspensions, frames, bodys, etc). Now you can order almost a complete racecar online. I imagine this has helped the car count in many classes Probably the only thing not available online is talent and cahones