Thorson winging it too ?
 

Tanner said on Flo podcast they are building a wing car.Reinbold said on interview they was gonna run 60 outlaw shows.Anybody got the scoop ?

Flo had an interview with Axom and apparently he's going to do some wing stuff this year with an eye on going wings full time. It seems that the younger drivers are looking at wings as the end game. Thorson has dabbled with wing racing before so his transition should be fairly smooth. It's a crazy time in open wheel racing.

Apparently 60 to 70 WoO races in 2022.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Tanner should do well it seems like he has a lot going for him. Talent, a great car owner, previous wing experience, and a future father in law that was pretty good in winged cars. He'll be fun to watch as always.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

I think Kofoid drove that car last year a few times and it was fast. I assume Thorson will also do pretty well.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Hate to lose him to the wings, but will be pulling for him.

Wings pay more.. Usac needs to step up $

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse: How many times are we going to go over this? For USAC to pay bigger purses like the Outlaws, one of the things that will need to change is for the ticket prices to be the same. Are you willing to pay the same to watch a USAC race as an Outlaw race?

Are we willing for USAC to not allow the top 15 drivers in the sprints to race local shows?

It is easy to say that they need to pay better, but the devil is in the details.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

I would happily pay admission prices comparable to WoO's Sprint Car admission prices for a wingless 410 event that paid a comparable purse whether it's USAC or any other sanction. Obviously I speak only for myself. I enjoy the wingless cars more than just about any other form of racing. I would purchase a comparably priced ticket knowing full well that the racing is going to be exactly what I came to enjoy. That statement is no knock on the WoO's Sprint Cars. It's merely an expression of my personal preferences.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

My response to this is, with respect, "USAC needs to step up $" or what? What are the consequences if they continue with the purse as is? Do we feel that the car counts will dwindle to the point of not being able to fill an entire field? It seems to me that each time a driver/team moves in a different, as in winged, direction their place is filled with another team willing to step up to the USAC schedule. While I haven't done the research myself, it would be interesting to me to know what the average per race event car count is between WOO, Allstars, ASCS National and USAC National races.

Tim Simmons

USAC used to be the springboard to NASCAR and even INDY or at least Indy lights. Not so much anymore. It seems to have lost that connection and these young drivers view the WoO as their career destination. My opinion is… wings suck and the drivers are *******. I think we could be in store for a dramatic drop in car counts and lack of quality drivers. Let’s face it, USAC has become a feeder series for the outlaws. Prove yourself in USAC, get an outlaw ride. I remember when it used to be the other way around.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

I've heard many traditional sprint racers saying they couldn't afford winged racing. It's not cheap to run a traveling winged series. Is there enough funds available to support the huge influx winged racing has going on. I wonder who will see the exit of top teams as making it financially advantageous to take off the wings and sleep in their own bed more often.
I have seen awful lot of awesome racing with no big names and up and comers in the field.

Here are the 2021 average car count stats: WOO: 32.6. All Stars: 35.6. ASCS National: 36.6. USAC National Sprints: 34.2

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Silver Crown offers pavement experience that looks good on a NASCAR resume. In the past that experience could be had in sprints and midgets as well. Perhaps offering something other sanctioning bodies don't is another way to survive.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

:918: We have a winning reply.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

You win the internet today. Great job!!!!!

Exactly how many WoO drivers have left to go run USAC?

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Thanks, Kinser - So it appears to me that USAC is as healthy as the other series. Losing some to the wings may not have the dire consequences feared. Indeed, it could be that some "refreshing" of the field may be good as some leave but are replaced with fresh faces.

Tim Simmons

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Same stuff, different year, decade, century.

In terms of making $$ the biggest difference is the points payout. not the purse
5k-500
vs
7k-700.

Not to mention triple engine maintenence for wing.
Probably twice the tire and fuel bill.

Take away the ISW and OHio Sprint week from those and the three or four big races from WoO like Nationals and Kings Royal and them counts drop by a third.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Half the tire bill.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

The following data is compiled from all races run with this series. http://sprintcarratings.com/Default.aspx
Compiled by Bill Vanselow

2021

All Star Circuit of Champions (AS) - 2021

Driver Count: 321
Race Count: 53
Average Car Count: 35.6
Count of Drivers running every race: 3
Count of Drivers running half of the races: 12
Total Money paid out: $1,981,148
Average Pay per Race: $37,380
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2021

USAC National Sprint Cars (USAC) - 2021

Driver Count: 219
Race Count: 43
Average Car Count: 34.2
Count of Drivers running every race: 7
Count of Drivers running half of the races: 19
Total Money paid out: $1,202,700
Average Pay per Race: $27,969

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2021

World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series (WoO) - 2021

Driver Count: 327
Race Count: 76
Average Car Count: 32.6
Count of Drivers running every race: 8
Count of Drivers running half of the races: 15
Total Money paid out: $4,950,850
Average Pay per Race: $65,142

Looks to me like there's an extra $10K available per race at an All Stars Show and quite a bit more at a WoO race. I understand there's a couple WoO races that skew the total though. But this is where the money is guys and these drivers/teams race for a living.

If someone offers you the same job but with more money at stake, wouldn't you take it too??

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

I'd like to see that list also.

Really good info here. Now can someone show me the money spent by the top ten owners in each? Not trying to argue, just asking.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Ray thats gonna be hard info to obtain but I get your point its obviously harder on equipment to run wings. The bigger $$ look good but its what they pay at the end of the season that makes up the difference.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

As Karl Kinser said, " It doesn't matter what you make, it matters what you keep." I can't think of any form of racing that doesn't apply to.

I’m pretty sure the woo numbers above don’t include Knoxville for whatever reason, so it’s not skewed that much by the big races. The normal WoO a main purse is $51k. The other thing about the Woo is that if you’re a top team/winner you sell a ton of t shirts, and that can be a nice payday for the driver.

What is the normal one day purse for the All Stars, ASCS, WoO, and USAC?

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

I was once told that "what it pays to race is unimportant" and "the important thing is what does it cost to race for what it pays" :22:

Bill Vanselow (who sometimes posts on this board) has definitely provided some very interesting information that is pretty accurate. That data does show some robust numbers, particularly in the WoO, but there is also the thought that the top of one series is still better than a certain position farther down in another.

According to his statistics, the top earner in USAC Sprint Cars (Kevin Thomas, Jr.) had a higher average race winnings amount than even Tyler Courtney in ASCoC races. That’s not an indictment on the ASCoC. They’ve put together a great series that has grown immensely in the last few seasons. But it is a difficult road through Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Justin Grant had the best year in USAC 2021, and he’s been straightforward about what his cars earn. According to BillV’s statistics, Grant’s earnings in USAC alone would line up somewhere around 9th/10th on the total earnings list of winged sprint car drivers, behind the top 6 WoO drivers, Kyle Larson, and Tyler Courtney. Brent Marks is also right there, on the strength of some big events on his win list.

Thorson was a winged sprint car driver before he ran USAC sprint cars, and his car owner has had his eyes set on that challenge of going against the most well-funded teams in dirt racing. Thomas, Jr. is taking a ride as a hired driver instead of trying to balance a budget in his own car. Everybody has their own motives.

We have seen an unprecedented stretch in USAC Sprint Car racing with drivers staying and running for the championship year after year. That’s why they have been climbing the all-time lists in feature starts and wins. When we see the deepest fields contending for championships that a series has ever seen (and this applies to Midgets too), there has to be an effect from that at some point.

The money is there for those who win, run up front, and win championships. Opportunities are there for drivers to earn a very good living in multiple arenas. That’s good news for them & for short track racing fans.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

WOO 10000, 6000, 3500, 2800, 2500, 2300, 2200, 2100, 2050, 2000, 1600, 1400, 1200, 1100, 1050, 15-24 1000 Total 50,800
AS 6000,2800,2000,1500,1350,1300,1250,1200,1150,1100, 850,750,650,600,600,600,575,575,575, 20-24 550 Total 28,175
ASCS Not much, but that is too much :D I will see if I can find - Found It!
ascs 4000,2000,1200,1100,1000,800,700,600,500,480,460,4 40,420, 15-24 400 Total 18,100

Please note many Outlaw and some All-Star races pay more than the standard purse.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

No list exist. LOL:6:

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Lets face it. USAC is 3rd on the totem pole when it comes to Sprint car racing. The racing is simply not good as the world of outlaws or all stars and the crowd count shows it. I'd go as far to say the average World of Outlaw show has a bigger crowd than USAC's biggest race of the year. Don't blame KTJ, Windom or Thorson for going wing. USAC is an indiana based series aside from a week in pennsylvania and the end of the year in california where its too cold to race here. They rotate between the same 10 tracks all year and nothing new is happening where as WOO is hitting multiple new tracks every year expanding their fanbase. not only is winged racing better, the 2 main series are ran much better aswell. Congrats Tanner ill be rooting for you all year, and good choice!

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

:20::20::44::44:

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The USAC racing is not as good as the World of Outlaws?
You are on drugs if you think that.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

While I believe most here would disagree about your view of the racing action itself, it would be hard for many to argue that USAC is definitely a level or two below the World of Outlaws when it comes to promotion, fanfare, and the overall atmosphere of the events on their schedule. I believe this is due to the fact that USAC is strictly a sanctioning body and they don't seem to want to become anything more than that. Realistically, they don't promote anything and rely soley on the individual venues and promoters to handle the vast majority of that part of the business. The World of Outlaws,however, is actively engaged in promotion of their events as well as the atmosphere that surrounds their events. While I would much prefer to watch even a local non-wing show over a World of Outlaws show, I have been to many of both and will say without a doubt that the atmosphere and hype surrounding the WoO cannot be compared to a USAC show. With the high level of competition for the entertainment dollar, the hype and excitement is what puts people in the stands that are willing to pay a little bit more per ticket to be there. All of the rest (higher payouts, more big money sponsorship, etc.) is driven by the number of people that the events draw and the ticket prices that they are able to charge those people.

. According to this they are spending money on promotion.

Trolling is allowed, but at least support opinion with verifiable evidence.

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Neat to read that...now, can you post the payout the top 10 got from Tulsa last week? :44:

Re: Thorson winging it too ?
 

Not much on a per race basis.

Non racing friend ask me why I follow non wing versus wing sprints. I tell them the best way to put it is if u go to 10 wing races u r going to see 2 good shows of side by side racing. The other 8 will be follow the leader. If u go to 10 non wing races u r going to see 8 good side by side racing and 2 follow the leader. I will admit in the last few years the wing races r getting better especially on smaller tracks.