My thoughts on the economy...
 

Inside the Mind of Todd Kimmel
A weekly column by Todd talking about racing and the industry

• I am not trying to offend anyone with my thoughts. I am sure this will cause a lot of debate and that is fine. If this offends anyone or my facts are wrong I am sorry. I am simply going off CNN.com and racing websites.
• Thanks for reading this. This just seemed like a good idea to get my thoughts on paper and see what people think

Friday, December 12, 2008-Last night made it official that the United States would not help out the Big Three Automakers. Congress feels as though bailing them out would not help because they do not think that the automakers will change their ways. In the long run I think it is very safe to say that by not bailing out the Big Three we are actually hurting the US economy even more. When the Big Three go under over 8 million people in the US will lose their jobs. The trickle down effect will be catastrophic to the people of the US.

If you look at everything the Big Three are involved in it is clear to see that the US economy is in going to be worse off. Entertainments such as NASCAR and other forms of racing will seize to exist. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler go under who will supply engines and other parts needed for NASCAR racing. Also as most of you know Chrysler is a big part of USAC Racing. They are the title sponsor of the National Midget Series and also the major sponsor of Kasey Kahne’s USAC teams. I know that the series can go on without a title sponsor, but the question is for how long? GM is also a big part in midgets and sprint cars. They are the main sponsor for Tony Stewart’s sprint car team and also sponsor Shannon Babb in the WoO late models and Tony Stewarts WoO sprint car team. As many know Chevrolet has been working on a new 4 cylinder engine for midget racing to possibly decrease the cost of the sport. Ford is another one that has been a huge part of USAC racing. They have won more championships in USAC midgets then any other manufacture including many feature wins over the course of their history. With Esslinger being a big part of Ford what will happen to them? Other engines builders to be worried about are Hawk, Speedway Engines, Gaerte, Kister, and many other smaller companies that build engines without direct factory support.


The next topic I would like to go on about is the fuel prices. Although over the course of the last month fuel prices have started to decrease we find ourselves waking up this morning to gas prices increasing more than 20 cents.

Last year the gas prices started to affect low budget racers keeping more and more at race tracks closer to home or even forcing them to park their cars for the remainder of the season. If you add in the ailing economy and the high gas prices you might see that more and more teams stay closer to home or possibly do not race in the coming season.


Fan count is also going to go down as more people lose their jobs and gas prices increase. Late last year at any given race track you could notice empty seats in grandstands. It is not just the sprint car and midget word either. NASCAR is even having problems selling tickets. For the first time in decades the Daytona 500 is NOT sold out. Not to mention over part of the season NASCAR was losing fan base.

It can also be noticed with all of the teams merging and getting partners. Gillette Evernham teamed up last year, but it seems Ray Evernham has sold his share of the team. Ganassi is teaming up with DEI, Roush partnered with Fenway, and so on and so forth.


Todd Kimmel

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by Todd Kimmel:
Inside the Mind of Todd Kimmel
A weekly column by Todd talking about racing and the industry

• I am not trying to offend anyone with my thoughts. I am sure this will cause a lot of debate and that is fine. If this offends anyone or my facts are wrong I am sorry. I am simply going off CNN.com and racing websites.
• Thanks for reading this. This just seemed like a good idea to get my thoughts on paper and see what people think

Friday, December 12, 2008-Last night made it official that the United States would not help out the Big Three Automakers. Congress feels as though bailing them out would not help because they do not think that the automakers will change their ways. In the long run I think it is very safe to say that by not bailing out the Big Three we are actually hurting the US economy even more. When the Big Three go under over 8 million people in the US will lose their jobs. The trickle down effect will be catastrophic to the people of the US.

If you look at everything the Big Three are involved in it is clear to see that the US economy is in going to be worse off. Entertainments such as NASCAR and other forms of racing will seize to exist. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler go under who will supply engines and other parts needed for NASCAR racing. Also as most of you know Chrysler is a big part of USAC Racing. They are the title sponsor of the National Midget Series and also the major sponsor of Kasey Kahne’s USAC teams. I know that the series can go on without a title sponsor, but the question is for how long? GM is also a big part in midgets and sprint cars. They are the main sponsor for Tony Stewart’s sprint car team and also sponsor Shannon Babb in the WoO late models and Tony Stewarts WoO sprint car team. As many know Chevrolet has been working on a new 4 cylinder engine for midget racing to possibly decrease the cost of the sport. Ford is another one that has been a huge part of USAC racing. They have won more championships in USAC midgets then any other manufacture including many feature wins over the course of their history. With Esslinger being a big part of Ford what will happen to them? Other engines builders to be worried about are Hawk, Speedway Engines, Gaerte, Kister, and many other smaller companies that build engines without direct factory support.


The next topic I would like to go on about is the fuel prices. Although over the course of the last month fuel prices have started to decrease we find ourselves waking up this morning to gas prices increasing more than 20 cents.

Last year the gas prices started to affect low budget racers keeping more and more at race tracks closer to home or even forcing them to park their cars for the remainder of the season. If you add in the ailing economy and the high gas prices you might see that more and more teams stay closer to home or possibly do not race in the coming season.


Fan count is also going to go down as more people lose their jobs and gas prices increase. Late last year at any given race track you could notice empty seats in grandstands. It is not just the sprint car and midget word either. NASCAR is even having problems selling tickets. For the first time in decades the Daytona 500 is NOT sold out. Not to mention over part of the season NASCAR was losing fan base.

It can also be noticed with all of the teams merging and getting partners. Gillette Evernham teamed up last year, but it seems Ray Evernham has sold his share of the team. Ganassi is teaming up with DEI, Roush partnered with Fenway, and so on and so forth.


Todd Kimmel

NASCAR IS IN BIG TROUBLE AND ALL RACING IS IN TROUBLE! THE POWERS TO BE ARE JUST LIKE THE AUTO MAKERS POOR MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!! THEY LET THE COST OF RACING GET WAY OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!
:headbang:doh:

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Todd I appreciate your thoughts on the big three but to be honest I truly don't believe that the big three will go completely under. What they need to do is file bankruptcy and reorganize as many business in the past have done. They have gotten themselves into the situation they are in and need to look at what they have done wrong. If this means that Chrysler and GM need to merge than so be it.

As far as the government bail out you have to ask yourself were does the government say no to bailing out companies. I saw on the news last night that the RV industry is now asking for help, and who will be next.

This brings up my next question with the government in a record deficit where are they going to get the money to bail all these people out. As the government prints money the dollar decreases in value and if they opt to barrow money from other countries we only dig the United States deeper into debt. The deeper into debt the government goes the higher your taxes go. It turns into a viscous cycle. At some point in time we have to take responsibility for what we do. If I go out and get myself 30 or 40 thousand dollars in credit card debt I am responsible for that debt not you or my neighbor or the government.

We as a country and in our business and personal lives need to take responsibility and quit thinking the government owes us and is responsible for use.They are responsible for nothing other than making sure we are not denied our basic right as written in the Constitution. They are not responsible for my bills or the bill of anyone else or the bills of a company that was miss managed.

I don't want to get off topic but We have a right to the pursuit of happiness we are not guaranteed happiness.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Good stuff, Todd.

I focused on your gasoline paragraphs. With prices being well south of $2, let us not forget the lessons of the summer of '08. I paid a high (for me)of $4.37 a gallon in New York just a few months ago. This could come back to haunt us in the future. We must continue exploring for more effecient and better ways to fuel our vehicles, be it gasoline, various alcohols, CNG, hydrogen, electric, solar, wind, or whatever.

I'm just an idiot race fan for 54 of my 57 years, and I have seen racing survive economic situations in the past. I hope it can weather this current financial storm for selfish reasons. My selfish reason? Racing lets me escape from my all too real humdrum life on summer weekends. I just pray I still have a job next summer and can afford to still go.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Racing survived the 70's and that was a miserable time for the US.

This isn't the first time the Auto's had to pull back or out of the sport.

The technology in the sport has been driven by the individules involved and someone like Jack Roush for example actually is more of the driving force behind Ford Racing Technology than Ford itself is. In my opinion.

There have been many periods over the years where Nascar for example didn't have enough cars to fill the field and wasn't the 43 starting spots just introduced within the last 10-15 years. Even in the 2000's there where times when they didn't have 43.

The job losses are pretty intense right now, but in many ways we have to go through this to bring everything back to square again. 6 months,1 year, 5 years, or 10, no one knows how long it will last, but it had to happen to get us back on track and uncover the bombs that have been hidden for some time. I hate it not only for racing, but for people in general.

The early 80's where rough, the early 90's and the early 2000's. We will get through this too.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Man Todd what a weekly column!!! You hit everything on the head!

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

GM pulled out of NECKCAR circa the mid sixties and stayed out for quite a while and they survived. however, we had Ole' Smokey Yunick runnin' the Chevies by himself. That was fun. Curtis Turner even put the "Independent" Chevelle on the pole and led the race one year (1969?).

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

The BIG THREE should all merge together into one and they could call it American Motors Corp. :O:

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

GEE, GIVE US 40 BILLION TO DO WITH AS WE PLEASE. YOU CAN BUY GM FOR 5 BILLION!

Its gotta break to be fixed correctly. You go under, You start OVER.
WELLS FARGO came in an bought failing banks and their debt. Said we don't need a Bailout and THE GOVT tells them. THEY HAVE TO GIVE UP 20 percent share.

Govt intervention only prolongs decay.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

yeah its just hard to tell these days espically working in that line of work...i work for a Dodge dealership and wonder everyday if im coming into work tommorrow..i heard that we may not be here in jan....also heard about the other dealer here in town trying to buy us

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

no bailouts......no bankruptcy......record profits for years...... if they have mismanaged there money and businesses for years let them pay the price. reorganize ,restructure. this country has given to much and that is why we are in the shape we are in.....spending more than they have.....our govt needs to restructure also....no unemployment extensions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Where were some of you when the government bailed out the banks and insurance companies??? Two examples..........After getting their slice of the pie and the majority of the money going overseas, CitiBank is laying off 25,00 people. But, they still spent 20 million on the naming rights for the new stadium for the New York Mets!!! Bank of America is laying off 35,00 people over three years, but, that didn't stop them from increasing their share (16% to 19%) in a Chinese bank.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by trblshtr56:
Where were some of you when the government bailed out the banks and insurance companies??? Two examples..........After getting their slice of the pie and the majority of the money going overseas, CitiBank is laying off 25,00 people. But, they still spent 20 million on the naming rights for the new stadium for the New York Mets!!! Bank of America is laying off 35,00 people over three years, but, that didn't stop them from increasing their share (16% to 19%) in a Chinese bank.

We did exactly what we were supposed to do. IT WAS 80 percent against the baiout. We contacted our congress and senate and told them no. But strangely only ten percent of the senate voted against it. That means 175 members of the senate are guilty of treason. What are you going to do about it?

This is where I feel the Media has become very, very dangerous. Not only is Global warming a sham http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=24227
The WE NEED, WE HAVE TOO and the Distracting KAYLEE ect lets them do exactly what they want to do. Not what the PEOPLE WANT.

This has nothing to do with Partisanship. I has to do with THE CONSTITUTION and the LAW.
Chuck

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Ok my 2 cents.And I know it matters to no one but me but here goes.I work at a Chevy dealership and from what I have heard lately around work and tv this is going to be ugly.I dont work at a big dealership,we have 26 people counting the owner but this is killing us.We went from averaging selling 62 new cars a week to selling 4 last month.There was a little talk around work at the end of the day about just selling used cars which makes me wonder if something has already happened with GM that hasnt been reported yet.But we will find out before the weekend is up huh? I detail cars myself but seeing that change in how people are buying vehicles and seeing the change in the amount of work that the mechanics are getting(we have 4 that are fighting over work cause there is none) I wonder how much worse it will get.I do agree the bozos running GM need to get out of there and hit the unemployment line.And unless they do something to get rid of the union its not gonna work.They pay with hourly wages benifits and the whole ball of wax an average of $42 an hour.Honda is doing the same for around $25.Cant do it.You cant compete.I know there are union guys working for GM that are going to read this and not like it but tough.Gas will go back up I have no doubt.I already had to give up racing earlier in the year and it wasnt this bad then.Now I wonder if the doors are gonna be locked every morning when I go in to work.I myself dont know exactly what will fix it but I think its so far gone that its going to be a long time before its ever good again.I guess I can at least go to Gas City next year,providing I have a job!

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by cecil98:
gm pulled out of neckcar circa the mid sixties and stayed out for quite a while and they survived. However, we had ole' smokey yunick runnin' the chevies by himself. That was fun. Curtis turner even put the "independent" chevelle on the pole and led the race one year (1969?).

yes and a team could race all year in the 60s for bout $50000! IF THAT MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Good thoughts Todd, but ponder this..........

The 14 billion that may or may not be on the table is to get them through the end of the month.
What happens when that money runs out early next year?

UAW walked away from the table yesterday because they knew the white house would back them whether or not they could cut a comprimise.
Why is UAW sponsoring a NASCAR?
One of UAW's health benifits they get from the big 3 is a 25million dollar allowance per year to the members for VIAGRA.

I think the bailout is a good idea for the workers and suppliers ONLY. But, and a big BUT, UAW HAS to comprimise and make sure what ever deal they can come up with works. And that money needs to be paid back to us. Remember if this thing passes.............your tax dollars will be buying cars and those cars will NOT be in your garage!!!!!!!!!!!

Gas prices are controlled by wallstreet. Light Sweet Crude is traded on the commodities market. Whatever happens to the trading markets will directly affect your pocketbook. Buying and selling and trading stocks is a form of legalized gambling to 99.9% of the people in the world. Everytime you purchase gas, you are indirectly purchasing futures. When the market is up on Oil, the gas prices go up. When the market is down, the gas goes down. This is a basic concept, however, a solution to stability for gas prices would be to take Oil off of the futures market. Stabilize the price over a given amount of time instead of daily. That way we are not gambling every time we buy gas and the commodities traders and brokers aren't making a profit directly from us the consumer.

One last thing to think about. Has President Bush made any CORRECT decisions about anything in the last 8 years? and i'm not a democrat.

nice debate thread
curt

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Curt,

Bush has done one thing 100% correct. Picking supreme court justices. This saved the 2nd amendment,and the way things are going I may need my guns.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Your right about that, but after bama starts you might not be able to use them anymore.

curt

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by micro94:
ok my 2 cents.and i know it matters to no one but me but here goes.i work at a chevy dealership and from what i have heard lately around work and tv this is going to be ugly.i dont work at a big dealership,we have 26 people counting the owner but this is killing us.we went from averaging selling 62 new cars a week to selling 4 last month.there was a little talk around work at the end of the day about just selling used cars which makes me wonder if something has already happened with gm that hasnt been reported yet.but we will find out before the weekend is up huh? I detail cars myself but seeing that change in how people are buying vehicles and seeing the change in the amount of work that the mechanics are getting(we have 4 that are fighting over work cause there is none) i wonder how much worse it will get.i do agree the bozos running gm need to get out of there and hit the unemployment line.and unless they do something to get rid of the union its not gonna work.they pay with hourly wages benifits and the whole ball of wax an average of $42 an hour.honda is doing the same for around $25.cant do it.you cant compete.i know there are union guys working for gm that are going to read this and not like it but tough.gas will go back up i have no doubt.i already had to give up racing earlier in the year and it wasnt this bad then.now i wonder if the doors are gonna be locked every morning when i go in to work.i myself dont know exactly what will fix it but i think its so far gone that its going to be a long time before its ever good again.i guess i can at least go to gas city next year,providing i have a job!

amen brother to that....im in about the same boat here....were a little smaller dealer than you i think..i heard its gonna get really ugly also .we sell bout 30-35 new vechiles a month..only sold 6 last month ..we are leading our sub district which is about a 50 mile radius in sales....if you add our full district in there were still 4th on the list thats including the cites of,indy,evansville,crawfordsville..etc...we are leading the other chrysler dealer in town by 40 new cars and trucks i guess thats good when the paper work comes out to close dealers .and i think im gonna sit next year out of racing i think....theres some big shows that i really wanted to go with the old man and his tribe to last year but couldnt b/c i was tied up in points

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

GM has already shuttered 21 plants til the end of January. To some extent those plants where going to be closed for a few weeks anyway for normal shutdown.

It is not just the big three though, Honda and Toyota are cutting back production even at the new Greensburg plant.

Lets face it, not just loans on cars and houses have been too easy, but easy credit period has been both the driving factor behind this bloated economy and is it's downfall.

So many people of every ethnicity and social level where just willing to take on loans they couldn't afford and then when they can't make the payments they just declare bankruptcy and walk away.

The biggest problem we have today is that all groups of people are self serving,greedy and ignorant when it comes to money.

I know of one person who had been in money trouble since the day they left high school because of the credit cards and new cars and after 10 years filed bankruptcy and within the last two years is exactly where they where just a few years ago. A car, a bike, credit card debt and no job. The worst part is that they where making $18 an hour and couldn't live on it.

What no one understood about the finance situation was that no one was taking responsability for the loans. The people getting them, the people issuing them, the people insuring them and on down the line. I had a customer put it correctly; he said that irresponable people have been allowed to bankrupt the world. He was right.

Mortgage and easy credit have almost bankrupted this country numerous times. Going back to the beginning of the country.

I believe that this is going to have a profound effect for a generation or two, but it will happen again as people forget and think they have a "new" plan. I have said for years that I believe that the source of much of the "Depression" people have suffered from and have had to take all of th pills for is their inability to want to deal with the responablility and debt that they have incurred and if they would relieve themselves of the debt they would feel better. It's the same broken record over and over again that people get divorced, kill themselves, kill their loved ones over debt and ultimately the unwillingness to want to deal with it.

People have for far to long judged their self worth over "objects" that they posess and their status symbols and I think it is now coming home to roost for a period.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by Wallsracing:
amen brother to that....im in about the same boat here....were a little smaller dealer than you i think..i heard its gonna get really ugly also .we sell bout 30-35 new vechiles a month..only sold 6 last month ..we are leading our sub district which is about a 50 mile radius in sales....if you add our full district in there were still 4th on the list thats including the cites of,indy,evansville,crawfordsville..etc...we are leading the other chrysler dealer in town by 40 new cars and trucks i guess thats good when the paper work comes out to close dealers .and i think im gonna sit next year out of racing i think....theres some big shows that i really wanted to go with the old man and his tribe to last year but couldnt b/c i was tied up in points

Yeah its kind of scary.I did however just now as I write this see that the white house is going to help GM.I live in Anderson myself and dont know what Im gonna do if I lose my job as there isnt anything around here.I have a family at home and that is what scares me the most.I hear alot of people saying just let them go bankrupt and start all over.What those of you dont realize is if they file bankrupt they will go straight to liquidation.They will come to your town,take all new cars off the lots and it will be done for awhile and awhile meaning if they can get it back together.And as I said they are going to help but you guys are right this money isnt going to do it.Its just gonna prolong it.It makes no sense to have the same people try to fix it that screwed it up.I myself even though I work for them dont wont to be responsible for bailing them out as I drive a 94 blazer and cant afford any new or newer vehicle for that matter.Hell I have another micro in my garage right now that I have 2 motors and 85% of the parts for but cant afford to put it together.Getting rid of the union will be something interesting.I agree with what someone else said about the retiries eating up alot of money but they half to get wages and benifit packages down to compete.We let honda and toyota come over here to save them money on shipping cars over seas and they are doing it alot more affordable than they was before.We get oil from overseas.Maybe we should start by depending on ourselves and what we already have.People from other countries have always wanted to come here.They are here.Now we are a minority.Congratufreakinlations.:moon::angry-smiley-007:

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

My brother and I have been kicking around a solution. Most banks receive their money at about 1/4 of a percent. They then turn arond and loan it to us at 4 to 7 percent interest rates for car loans, mortgages, etc.

We were thinking that if ever mortgage was refinanced at 1 to 2 percent lower than they are currently at it would put a lot of money into the homeowners hands to do more with than what they currently have. Some of the numbers that we came up with were 2 to 4 hundred dollars per month depending on the amount of the mortgage.

Everyone is focusing on the big companies, and yes it would be catastrophic for them to go under. The government bailed out the banks, insurance co., and mortgage lenders, but cannot bail out the big three. This seems weird to me. We gave the banks 300 billion and did not worry about where their money was going. From reports that I have heard that money is not getting lended like they thought that it would.

The money from an interest rate refinance on everyones' home would make a huge impact on everyone. With more money every month it allows people to spend more and have a lasting effect on the economy.

My brother and I are not financial experts. Just some ideas that we came up with. I am sure that there will be plenty of questions. show me what might work better.

Preacher Dave

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

While I couldn't be more disappointed in "W" and the GOP as a whole, this mess was "seeded" during the Carter administration with the "Community Reinvestment Act" and the expansion of it's scope and influence in 1993. When you loan money to people on a grand scale, who have no way, or intention, of paying it back, this is what you get.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Problem won't be fixed until they do go under, start over, and get rid of the unions. I'm all for them, but people making that much money to work in a factory is wrong. I make a pretty good living, but nothing crazy, and there is people that work in these factories making 35 dollars an hour seperating bolts out of a big bucket into another. No way. That's poor business practice. I work for a retail chain that went through some restructuring this past year, and we are now doing well compared to the other companies in our type of business. Look at Circuit City and Best Buy, struggling bad, because they refuse to change with the times, and do what they have to do in order to preserve profits. Look at Office Depot, closing 112 stores, and cutting what they are opening next year in half. If they would have have prepared better for this, then maybe we all wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. But the problem is like midget racing, it's to far gone to fix because you can't just cut everybody's wages and they'll be happy. Micro said it best that Toyota is building the same types of cars for much cheaper because they aren't paying their workers as much, and you don't hear them in financial trouble. I'm all for rewarding employees, but what the big three have done is stupid in the grand scheme of things by allowing the union to push their way through.

PS. With all the money problems this country is in, does it bother anybody else that Navy, Army, and Air Force sponsor race teams? How about investing that money into the country, something that actually matters. And the UAW take some of those damned union fees that you're getting, get your name off the racecars you sponsor, and invest it back in your people so that way the auto makers can make a bit more profit to keep going. That'll never happen because that's just way to smart, and they want to have something cool to watch on Sunday afternoons I guess.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

The only way the Army, Navy and Air force are going to stop sponsoring race cars is if they reinstate the draft.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

You gotta spend recruiting $ to maintain an all voluntary military.
They wouldn't sponsor racecars if it wasn't proven to be cost effective.
It also attracts the type of individual you want to serve with (think about it).

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Biro22,
The main thing Pres. Bush has done is protect this country from another terrorist attack for over 7 years. I don't think too many people would've thought that possible after 9/11. You think this economy is bad now? Wait till another attack or two hit - God forbid - and what is going on today will seem like the good old days. Good luck to our new president and hopefully he won't get choked to death by the stench emanating from Illinois.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Nice article Todd! My thaught is- Why should the government bail out the big three? They didn't sneeze at the opprutunity to move alot of their manufacturing out of the US after Slick Willy passed the NAFTA bill several years ago! They moved things overseas to get the products done cheaper, but it didn't reflect on the price of vehicles. The only people to blame are the manufactures themselves. Its too bad that there are american racing component companies that get their **** made in China and other places.... As good American racing citizans, we all need to stick together and buy products that are made right her in the USA.. I think it would be a good start... I will continue to refrain from buying anything made across the pond just as I always have, but I do realize that sometimes you have no choice in some matters. We just need to keep our mindset in the right place and think about what products we buy and how it will effect all of us in the future.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by Flatrightrear:
Biro22,
The main thing Pres. Bush has done is protect this country from another terrorist attack for over 7 years. I don't think too many people would've thought that possible after 9/11. You think this economy is bad now? Wait till another attack or two hit - God forbid - and what is going on today will seem like the good old days. Good luck to our new president and hopefully he won't get choked to death by the stench emanating from Illinois.

The post of the day!!!:thumb YOU tOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH!


Kinda like a girl i met one time,she asked if i would kiss her were it stinks! So I loaded her up in the car and took her to Gary and gave her a smooch!!

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by Flatrightrear:
Biro22,
The main thing Pres. Bush has done is protect this country from another terrorist attack for over 7 years. I don't think too many people would've thought that possible after 9/11. You think this economy is bad now? Wait till another attack or two hit - God forbid - and what is going on today will seem like the good old days. Good luck to our new president and hopefully he won't get choked to death by the stench emanating from Illinois.

I personally feel we are even in more danger of being attacked, becuase of bush. I recently saw where al queda membership is up 4x what it was on 9/11. Our poor troops are scattered all over thus rendering them somewhat ineffective. ( no fault of theirs) If you remember bin laden said he would bankrupt our country, and it appears bush did his best to make him right. Just for the record I live in the real world and do not watch fox news.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
I personally feel we are even in more danger of being attacked, becuase of bush. I recently saw where al queda membership is up 4x what it was on 9/11. Our poor troops are scattered all over thus rendering them somewhat ineffective. ( no fault of theirs) If you remember bin laden said he would bankrupt our country, and it appears bush did his best to make him right. Just for the record I live in the real world and do not watch fox news.

Brent - I like you and that won't change. But, I've had enough democrat-speak from all outlets to fill two lifetimes. I feel as though people like myself have no voice anymore and, since the door has been opened, I have to vent here.

Come on. I hate it when people (liberals) act like Fox News is some kind of aberration, like it's the news channel that's off base. Get real. If you watch these channels objectively (which I do -- my only partisan affiliation is to the Party of Common Sense) you realize that Fox News is the only one that's remotely different from the rest. The rest of the f***ing channels are feeding us the same bleeding heart, leftist, morally corrupt liberal BS. I'm not saying Fox News is 100% pure by any means, but it sure comes closer to the middle -- the "real world" -- than all the rest combined.

For the record, I'm no Republican. Yes I think guns are ok, yes I think small government is a good thing, yes I am pro life, and no, I don't want to give a handout to Shaniqua on 38th Street with six kids and a crack problem. But by the same token, gay marrige is ok by me, I think mixing church and state is a joke and I'm all for universal health care. So what does that make me? Sensible, I like to think.

I realize that 99% of all the news we see in America has a corporate (mind control) agenda, but Jesus Christ. Choose the lesser of two evils.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

I like turkey on Thanksgiving and ham on Chritmas Day.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by Fisher79:

For the record, I'm no Republican. Yes I think guns are ok, yes I think small government is a good thing, yes I am pro life, and no, I don't want to give a handout to Shaniqua on 38th Street with six kids and a crack problem. But by the same token, gay marrige is ok by me, I think mixing church and state is a joke and I'm all for universal health care. So what does that make me? Sensible, I like to think.

I realize that 99% of all the news we see in America has a corporate (mind control) agenda, but Jesus Christ. Choose the lesser of two evils.

Derek, I agree with your last paragraph, and I beleive your and I opinions may be closer than you think. I know a person who made $6 million a couple of years ago, and not only did he pay a lower percentage of taxes, he also paid a lower dollar amount in real dollars. I think that is horrible. I won't earn that much in my lifetime. I know all news has a certain amount of spin, but I have seen fox just plain lie. I am in the book, call me sometime, and I will debate you over a beer. Have a good one.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by Preacher Dave:
My brother and I have been kicking around a solution. Most banks receive their money at about 1/4 of a percent. They then turn arond and loan it to us at 4 to 7 percent interest rates for car loans, mortgages, etc.

We were thinking that if ever mortgage was refinanced at 1 to 2 percent lower than they are currently at it would put a lot of money into the homeowners hands to do more with than what they currently have. Some of the numbers that we came up with were 2 to 4 hundred dollars per month depending on the amount of the mortgage.

Everyone is focusing on the big companies, and yes it would be catastrophic for them to go under. The government bailed out the banks, insurance co., and mortgage lenders, but cannot bail out the big three. This seems weird to me. We gave the banks 300 billion and did not worry about where their money was going. From reports that I have heard that money is not getting lended like they thought that it would.

The money from an interest rate refinance on everyones' home would make a huge impact on everyone. With more money every month it allows people to spend more and have a lasting effect on the economy.

My brother and I are not financial experts. Just some ideas that we came up with. I am sure that there will be plenty of questions. show me what might work better.

Preacher Dave

Great idea in theory, but not gonna happen. Most people who need your refinance idea are under water on their homes value right now because of overinflating values and too much easy credit, and therefore no bank will touch them.

Re: My thoughts on the economy...
 

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
I personally feel we are even in more danger of being attacked, becuase of bush. I recently saw where al queda membership is up 4x what it was on 9/11. Our poor troops are scattered all over thus rendering them somewhat ineffective. ( no fault of theirs) If you remember bin laden said he would bankrupt our country, and it appears bush did his best to make him right. Just for the record I live in the real world and do not watch fox news.

I assure you that the taxpayers money is at work to prevent or at least diminish the effects of another terrorist attack, whether it be from a group like Al Queda or just pissed off citizens. Most of what is being done you will not see or hear about. I think that local governments will play a major role in preventing another terrorist attack, not the military. I wouldn't be suprised if the words "Al Queda" and "terrorism" being typed on this message board hasn't already got someones attention. Now if Don would use these words in one of his posts maybe he would get some of that buy out or government assistance money sent his way.

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I feel sorry for anyone in the auto industry but we have done it ourself.From the top CEO to the person sweeping the floors.We as Americans have sold out to overseas intrest look around your own house and cout the things that say MADE IN THE USA. I am as guilty as anyone else but we as a country have made our own bed and now we have to sleep in it.On the brighter side we can fix it and not buy throwing money at it but buy getting back to our roots that made our country strong in the first place NEVER GIVE UP take one day at a time.If your neighbor is down help them up we may not all agree on everything but be thankfull for what you do have it may not be much but be thankfull.

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This is a hard thread to respond too and has now changed its content.......because the Country is divided between two forces. Us and them. Rep. and Dem. Rush (sometimes right, sometimes dickhead) Limbaugh......."Us or them". Its so amazing to me that there are about 300+ million people in this Country and with I would hope, that many different opinions, and we have somehow narrowed it down to 2 parties with opposite views and standards. It really shows how narrow minded the Country is that there could also be an UP or DOWN or another direction instead of just the right and left wingers.

Why don't we get off of the Us or Them mentality, get rid of electoral voting, get rid of the politcal parties and I bet the people in this Country would come together as a whole. Including us on this board.

Flatrightrear...............yes Bush has done alot to stop further attacks. Agreed. However, the FBI, CIA, and the White house were warned months in advance of 9/11 and knew it was coming. They did nothing to stop it when they could have.

Look what you started Mr. Kimmel. :)
curt

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The whole world is in the same boat as we are. These toxic mortgages where sold to every country and it has basically bankrupted the whole world.

As long as there was cash flow, the game could go on, but when oil and other commodities were used as a tool to offset the losses in the banking industry, that cut off the flow and was the final straw.

What's the difference between Shaniqua on 38th in big bad city Indiana or Jill on Happy Meadow lane in Little Slice of Small Town Heaven Indiana? Unwed pregnant mothers are in every town big and small as more and more people won't take responsability for anything anymore.

I don't argue the Buy American theory, but we went through the Depression during a time when we bought mostly American. Also, don't buy the American hype some of these companies claim, many of the Ameican products have some sort of foreign influence to it.

I do believe though that manufacturing is the key to a country's prosperity. No matter how long people say that only educated minds are worthy of pay and dirty hands are those of the fools.

Remember this: While I don't agree with unchecked imigratrion, nearly all of us here are the relation to US imigrants.

The only way out of this is to do the best you can, take responsability for your actions and spend a certain amount of money on goods and services other than food and entertainment when you can. Storing your money in coffee cans and hording every penny is the financial suicide equivilant to death by a thousand paper cuts. It's a slow and painful way to fade away.

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Juan Williams, Lara Niasson, Heraldo Riviera, Greta Van Susteren, some blond from Fortune magazine-- all left of center politically if not flat out in left field and all are regularly featured on Fox News. Mort Kondracke thinks he's somewhere in the middle but can't make up his mind. Someone name me at least one are two conservatives that get heard regularly on any other network on a daily basis. Liberals attack Fox because Fox is successful just like they attack conservative talk radio because it is successful so now we have to hear from some in the Democratic Party that the Fairness Doctrine should be brought back so talk radio will be constrained/destroyed. Many in that party want to stifle opposition voices, which is reminiscient of Stalin/Goebbels. If you don't like what you're hearing just change the station or turn the tv or radio off. That is the best censorship in the world and lets each individual decide for themselves what they want to hear. Biro, sure Bush has made mistakes but lets not let the majority Dems in both houses off the hook. Reid, Pelosi and crew are not young innocents. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd should both be on a witness stand answering questions and NOT telling anybody anything about how the mortgage ship should be righted after both telling us 3-4 years back that all was well with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae when smart people told them red flags were going up all over the place. The tape on them is out there saying "all is well" if you want to watch it. Best advice I have is trust in the Lord as He is in charge and everything that happens is part of His plan whether we understand it or not. That's how I get through my day, anyway.OK, I'll shut up and go away now.

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Only one thought on the situation: Ted Nugent in 2012 !