Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Few buddies of mine and I were talking about this. Winged Racing has all of these high-purse races (Knoxville , Kings Royal, Every week in PA) and non wing doesnt have many at all.. I seen on the Kokomo Schedule they have a $26,000 to wing Winged race. Was surprising to me so see that on the schedule but no non wing high purse races (aside from the Smackdown) Why is this? All the non wing races i attended seemed to have a good fan count so they should be able to increase purse right?

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Why?
Probably because you will likely get same drivers and teams for $5,000 to $10,000 as you will get for $25,000. So no need for it. Has a track thought about it; probably but why take that financial risk for a track when there's no need to do so. Also I think that the All Star Race in October is probably being promoted by some one other then the track promoters just like last October's WOO Sprint Show.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

"you will likely get same drivers and teams for $5,000 to $10,000 as you will get for $25,000. So no need for it"???
Then why are wingless drivers going over the "the other side"??? :11:

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I was talking about the non-wing teams. The way I see it many of the big Wing sprints teams won't show for less then $3,000. USAC teams show up to weekly shows. That was my point.
Now I do think the payout for the Smackdown could be raised as the car count is huge for that show. Last years Saturday portion of the Smackdown car count was about 75 / 78 cars. Running two features helps attract cars. Personally I like the Smackdown format and I think the payout could be around $20 - $25k for that show or you could boost starting pay and tow money.
Just my opinion though.

For a similar reason that the CB only pays $10,000 to win.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Corn Belt Nationals at Knoxville pays $20,000. Saturday night at Ocala is now $10,000 and fall Haubstadt show is now $12,000.

Not wing territory money wise but it's a start.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

why no big paying non wing races? because car owners and drivers are idiots for showing up for next to nothing purses.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Overall, its because the fanbase on the winged side is Much bigger and there are way more winged cars out there... Did I just say that on IoW???

Because if you have a 5000 to win non wing show at track A you will get 25 to 30 cars . You have a 500 to 1200 to win show on the same night at track b you will get 50 to 60 cars. Top Wing guys won’t run for under a majority of 8 to 10 grand. 95 percent of the top non wing guys will show up for 500 to 1000 to win if there is no other races and probably have 50 cars at these shows .

The money to pay the higher purse had to come fro somewhere, either the front gate or the back gate. As bsmith8 above says, it is pretty common for LPS to draw 40+ cars for $1500/win while Tri-State draws 24 (or so) cars for an MSCS $5000 to win, so a track promoter can’t rely on the back gate with promise of a higher payout.

A ticket for the final night of the Knoxville Nationals is about $50. I think the price for a GA ticket for the King’s Royal is around $45. The point is a promoter has to put butts in the seats at these prices to make enough $$ to pay a larger purse, and historically non-winged fans won’t pay those prices. I don’t know how many threads there have been on IOW about how they wouldn’t go to this track or that, or this event or that because the cost went up from $14 to $15 for a weekly show or $22 to $25 for a USAC show.

I Would LOVE to see at least a couple $25k to win events be developed over the next couple of years. I think it would help retain teams and drivers and create a “buzz” for non wing racing that might get it noticed by more people.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Fans. Plain and simple. the Kings Royal and Knoxville have a cult like following. the PA fans show up at the Big Shows every time. there's more big names that stick around for years and gain more fans. USAC has a great group of racers, but the Outlaws, Allstars and PA dominate when it comes to names.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Or maybe they like to race.

Isn't the Lawrenceburg Fall Nationals at the beginning of October a $10,000 to win race? I could be wrong.🤔🤔

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I think its because a track can put up a purse with $1000 to $1500 to win and if theres no USAC or MSCS race, they"ll get the top guys there. When I worked for MSCS on the ride home a couple of us would talk about the races, about the cars we had, some of the top USAC guys would be there, for $2000 to win. I have always thought , and VOICED my opinion about a series should not run for anything under at least $3000 to win. But I can understand their wanting to just race, as I was guilty of doing it myself , using a couple sick days, towing a 6 hour one way haul ( southern Indiana to Eldora) for a race with a $1000 to win with a hope of just making the starting field. I see a couple MSCS races paying 2 to win this year, which I don"t think will even cover their expenses (tires fuel, fuel for Hauler, pit passes, etc,etc)
We need more fans at our non wing races, but I hear people say I"d like to see that race ,but I"m not traveling 2 hours. Well, crap I do that every weekend for local shows, so am I the one who"s crazy or what? But we need more butts in the stands. Sorry bout writeing a book. :D

The Lawrenceburg Fall Nationals used to pay more, but the last couple of years the race has payed the standard USAC purse.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Incorrect. The Fall Nationals have paid $10,000 to win for several years now, including in 2020.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I look at it this way - If you are a driver making a living racing and there are no races with the particular organization (that pays more than a weekly show) you support it seems to me that racing the weekly show brings in more than the nothing that sitting home brings. If you are supporting a family doesn't $500-$1000 pay, at least, a few of the bills?

If you are a car owner the track hosting the weekly show is more-than-likely to be on your organization's schedule at some point. Wouldn't it be prudent to use that weekly show to get some intelligence on how the track changes and the adjustments that work (and don't work) through the night? What if there is some "experiment" you want to try but cannot afford the risk of it not working when racing for your organization? Isn't there some value in that? From that perspective you can perform some "testing" without having to lay out funds for renting the track. Conversely, you are apt to MAKE money. Isn't that a win-win situation?

Tim Simmons

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I think this issue of payouts is directly related to fan interest and fan attendance. I grew up with non wing but I am 1950's old. I attend non wing shows because the sprint cars run closer together and a more competitive form of racing throughout the entire program. If you grew up with high speed wing racing, you go to what you know and appreciate. So, not as many of us OLD guys left to chase the non wings and we remember paying $8 to get in. Fan attendance recently at non wing shows are decent, at best. Younger wing fans remember $15 tickets, unique barnstorming outlaws, and huge crowds. So, wing fans are used to and accept racing as dusty, high speed parades, support $40 tickets, and seek to clan together with lifelong friends at traditional events. The real hope is FLO Racing which will visually compare the two styles of sprint car racing. FLO watching may convert some younger fans over to in person non wing racing live when it comes to their area tracks. Regardless your preference, please support your local tracks, teams, and drivers in 2021 and beyond.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

It sure don't make anything sitting in the shop, and you might just get lucky, now if you spend more on the trip, then closer to home might be the better option, when I raced TQ's, I made more, I felt, even before the purses got bigger, than driving all over the country running go-karts for nothing, zero, zip, now I have an attic full of trophy's, and not a dime in compensation, but we were having fun, and we were, I've been all over the country running karts on my own nickels, been to places no one would go on purpose, but I've seen things that those people haven't, and we had fun, much better than a cruise, to me and my wife, money isn't everything, but it's way ahead of what's in second place! I guess you could say the kart racing was part of the learning curve, but maybe I stayed with it too long, the TQ was a blast, and as I was able to do all my own work, and some for others, and almost every time we went to the track, I was usually able to put some $$$$ in my blue jeans, so it wasn't all bad. Like Tim says, you get to rent the track for cheap.

Perception, Wings are better because they are faster. Perception, Wing racing is safer because the wing absorbs alot of the energy during a flip. Wings have been the the norm since the late 70s early 80s. (They must be better). Big money sponsored touring series with big point funds are all wing. High dollar weekly shows are all wing. So unless the next Ted Johnson (non wing variety) or J W Hunt comes along expect only incremental growth.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I laugh when people tell me wings are safer. I look them in the eyes and say If you"re going faster, Don"t you hit harder. Plus most of the time the safer wing comes off after your first or second flip. Trust me on that one, voice of experience. :D

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I agree with this assessment. The PERCEPTION is that wings make the racing safer by absorbing the energy in a flip and I believe there was some truth to this statement in years gone by. As I remember WOO decided on wings only for that reason, and I remember track announcers stating this theory during the shows. If we fast-forward to the last 10 years or so, however, I question whether the statistics of those killed/maimed in winged vs. non-winged will bear that out.

To answer the original question, I wonder what role sponsorship of races plays in the payout of the big races. Was the MOPAR Million a success from a financial perspective for Eldora?

Tim Simmons

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

Tim I believe it was a success for Earl because I remember him saying he had the backing of Mopar. I don"t know how much they put up but I"d bet they gave a pretty penny or two for their name to be out there. :D

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

The Mopar Million was a great event and I think even if Mopar wasn't on board Earl would have done alright. If I remember right it was about $70 for a two day ticket and the place was full, not World 100 full but they had to have 16,000 people there and I think I'm being conservative. If you do the math it would be $120,000 to the good and that is not counting parking and concessions, so even if I am off with my attendance guess I'm sure he did alright.

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

I think with the hot dog consession he just barely broke even

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

LOL Earl"s famous saying "If we sell one more hot dog we might brake even", and he always said it without cracking a grin. lol :3:

Re: Why are there no high-paying non wing races?
 

It could be worst when you payout and nobody shows up...

Example: 2018 week after USAC..Hendry County Speedway in Clewiston, Fl. only race in the country $2000/$400 Fri. and $3000/$500 Sat Feb. 23/24....only had 7 non wing sprint cars and ONLY 1 showed up out of the state of Florida...

Fast Forward to Sept. 15 2018...All Tech Raceway Lake City, Florida... $2000/$400...5th place was $1000 yet I only had 8 cars show up...23 racers said they would be there....SO MANY EXCUSES....best one ever and I quote, "Sorry I could not make it...I had a dog grooving appointment"

2019 North South Mason Dixon Challenge in Tennessee...Thank all you racers and Aaron Fry with BOSS...big 2 day show 35 sprint cars and we went up against the Kokomo Show...why I love the racing up NORTH

Thank you Ms. Gardner and IOW for such a good racing site