Hulman VS National’s
 

Well folks time is flying. We’ve got the 50th running of the Hulman Classic and the 60th of the Knoxville Nationals. The thoughts of these two and their trajectory is an interesting juxtaposition. We know where they are in terms of popularity now but I was wondering back in the 70’s how the two races compared in prestige and importance? I remember as a child, thanks to Dads Speed Sport subscription, reading about Knoxville. I was at the 76 Hulman, my favorite race of all time by the way. I remember Terre Haute being on Wide World of Sports which was big time in those days. I’m hoping some of you veterans who were close observers of that era can add some insight to it and just how big of deals they were at the time. I don’t know if Richie has any perspective on it from his wealth of knowledge but I’m sure there’s a few of you that remember those days. Looking forward to reading your thoughts

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

1971 was a really big deal because local boy Don Nordhorn (Wadesville, IN) looked like a sure winner when a late caution flag allowed George Snider to overtake Don on the restart and bring home the bacon. It was on live tv on ABC's Wide World of Sports.
There were all sorts of celebrities in attendance and the purse was huge for the first few years. I believe my favorite was the 1974 event which was postponed by rain and run on a cold Easter Sunday. Jan Opperman was the victor.

Correction!!! Gary Bettenhausen won in 1974 and Jan Opperman in 1976. Gary received nearly $36,000 and Jan nearly $43,000 as the winners share respectively.

I remember in the 60's. The stands were sold out. And infield was open. And we could not get close to the fence. Maby 2 & 4 deep. And 220 Offy and Chevy going at it. Little did we know how precious they were. And to see Indy 500 drivers.

Lynn

That 43,000 would be 199,000 today!

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

The Hulman Classic didn't start until 1971.

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

I think it's comparing apples and oranges, at least for the first half or so of the decade. The Nationals started as a supermodified event, those eventually evolved to sprint cars. I'm sure the Nationals meant a lot to those who ran it, but if you didn't have Speed Sport I'm not sure the Nationals had the attention the Hulman Classic did.
The Hulman Classic kind of kicked off the month of May, had huge crowds and was on Wide World of Sports. National TV for a sprint car race was pretty much unheard of in 1971. Plus, that race drew not only the best of USAC's sprint division, but guys who were running the big track in Indy.
However, by the end of the 1970's USAC's sprint division wasn't what it had been, and the Nationals were rising in attention and popularity. Not surprisingly, I think you can trace, hand in hand, the rise of the popularity of the WoO and the rise in popularity of the Knoxville Nationals.

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

Apples and Oranges in a way.

Knoxville was a 3 day two qualifying night event. At first qualifying was everything. The Saturday night race had a A,B,C feature with dashes. Drivers from all over the country, but many from the midwest.
You would get the best of sprint car and super modified drivers. Race was Saturday night. A big deal to win.

The Hulman Classic seemed to kick off the month of May. USAC had sprint car drivers that raced at Indy, so that made it seem special and a big deal to fans. Run on Saturday afternoon. A big deal to win.

Both races were great. The best in sprint car racing have won both.

Who is Opperman!

Some hippie who tried driving sprint cars for a while (and the Indy 500 too)!:3:

Hulman: Qualified on Friday, raced on Sat., same day as KY Derby. Lots of delays for commercials and derby spots. Purse greatly enhanced by TV and night before Calcutta. Could have become a major event, but neglected by USAC and local community after Don Smith stepped aside. Remember they built the tower on turn 1 with Penske doing commentary probably at his first sprint car race! GB hauls her into turn 1, goes over the wall. Was driving Indy cars for Penske.

Knoxville had vision. Understood the focus of sprint cars was slowly slipping away from USAC. USAC was so married to the Speedway they failed to realize their were legions of fans and participants who were not identifying with Indy. Ted Johnson saw this, we know how that has gone.

I love non wing racing, and support much of what USAC is doing today,but with more vision 50 years ago it would be a much different traditional open wheel world.

The Hulman Classic was really the first Sprint car race to be televised on a National network. The fact that it was a USAC race though made it to where only those with a USAC license could participate, at least early in the 70’s until USAC permitted TP’s, which excluded some awfully good sprint car drivers that wanted nothing to do with USAC.

In the same vein, USAC didn’t permit their drivers in the 60’s and early 70’s to race outside of USAC, so their drivers couldn’t race the Knoxville Nationals. Also, since the Knoxville Nationals were basically open competition, the cars were quite a bit different than USAC legal cars.

I will say this: in the mid 70’s, when I was attending school in Terre Haute, ALL the races at the THAT we’re a big deal, but especially the Hulman. The city really got behind the event and there were events in the days leading up to it. Now, you’d hardly know there was a race in town. Having been to the Knoxville Nationals the last several years, it is pretty cool to see the town of Knoxville, Iowa still get behind the races like they still do. It is part of what makes it a great event.

I would agree that trying to compare the two events is comparing apples to oranges.

Some great feedback. Good points about foresight and also restrictions placed on drivers back in those days. Which btw while watching PA speedweek tonight had me thinking about the Outlaws and how that word in itself should be changed as apparently they can’t run out of sanction, but I digress. I certainly remember the ties that USAC had to the Speedway which were both good and bad probably as far as the other series under their control was concerned. If it’s true that the Hulman paid 40k to win back then, that’s remarkable! 98% of races these days don’t pay that much to win. I’m guessing outside of ******** which I’m sure was in play with USAC, any driver if asked back then if he could win one sprint car race, they most likely would reply Terre Haute. The money and exposure at the time were probably bigger enticement. To me, it’s just a shame that the Tony Hulman Classic isn’t a more celebrated event universally in the sprint car world knowing the history of the race. But I guess these days in America we try to erase history. Thanks again for all your input, and keep it coming if you have anymore to add

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

The term 'Outlaw' is just a brand, it's not to be taken literally. One of the reasons why they get big crowds for their races is because their drivers are tied to that series and can't race elsewhere (with the occasional exception).

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

awesome thread, thanks for the education

1600 I get the brand Outlaw, but it was derived from when racers chased the money without allegiance to a sanction body. They stated on one of the PA races Bobby Allen’s shop was literally 5 minutes down the road. I’ll bet shark racing were “chomping “ at the bit to go race with them. The name has become a ironic

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

My thoughts on these two events and their trajectory is basically tied to a large purse and a sanction that requires absolute membership/adherence. The Hulman initially had the big pay off, TV exposure, and a guarantee of seeing many Indy 500 participants tied to strict USAC regulations. Once this set of conditions gradually fell by the wayside, so did the prestige of the Hulman. For a decade or so the Nationals vacillated back and forth wing, non wing, wing, and open sanction trying to find a path to prestige level event. In the 90's WoO guaranteed the "Big Three", some delayed TV broadcast, and the Nationals as their "Indy 500". The rest is history as the TV expanded the National's reach and exposure, WoO grew to the premier sanction in sprint car racing, and the money started to pour in. BE AWARE that we are now at the cusp of another shake up in racing in general and sprint car racing specifically. Pay per view will allow more events to showcase their brand, quality of racing, and competition to a vast audience to discover. You now see local series nearing the pay outs and exposure of the traveling series. Very good teams are electing to come off the road to run close to home, family, crew, work, and loyal fan base for money that screams ROI. USAC, WoO, ASCoC, ASCS and possibly PowrI may need to significantly raise the purse in order to keep enough travelers in the fold. The sky is not falling but the winds of change might be upon us again.

Interesting take Will. My original thoughts in starting this thread was to gain a little more historical perspective and also lament the fact that Terre Haute should be recognized today by about every sprint car news outlet there is, however I don’t see that. In to your point about the winds of change I don’t see exactly where you’re coming from. It’s my belief that streaming money will come to the series and I’m going to bet into point funds. One thing I notice more on Flo and following them on Twitter is more and more National brand advertising. My hope is that not only does this make money for Flo, keeps subscriptions low, and then filters down to the series and the tracks. I don’t see this happening overnight but that’s where I hope it’s going. Local shows on the stream don’t do a whole lot for me. I don’t want to watch the support classes and what not. Back to my original point, let those of us who understand what the Tony Hulman Classic is celebrate another edition this evening

B99 Hulman Classic didn't start until 1971.


Never went to the Hulman Classic.
Returned from Vietnam and found a job building Indy Cars. Working day and night. Indy cars for GB, Mclreath. Mclusky, Rutherford,
Sessions, & Grim. So I missed the starting years of Hulman Classic.
I was 60 miles away.

Lynn

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

Back in the mid 1960's USAC and IMCA sprint cars were real popular. There would be drivers that didn't belong to either and were good. Those drivers were called "outlaw's" originally. That and drivers who would run outside the organizations which had the name as running as an outlaw.

I remember there would be good drivers who farmed or ran a business and couldn't get away to chase points or in some cases race very often at all. But they could show up and be capable of winning.

“In its inaugural year, the race paid a total purse of $28,538 ($180,200 today) and was televised on ABC's Wide World of Sports, becoming the first televised sprint car race in history.”

If that’s true, isn’t it also true that the purse in 1970 bigger than it is in 2020 regardless of inflation?

Thank you for your service. I’m glad you made it home.

Screaming outta 4,wheels up

I enjoyed watching all of those gentlemen race. In my mind that was the Golden Era.

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

It's been interesting reading stories about these two races. Clearly there are more experts on this topic than myself. What strikes me was how Knoxville took the Nationals and made a huge event out of it. Their track was clearly modernized, a week long list of area events, a yearly downtown parade and a welcome race fans attitude is laid out by the city.

Did Terre Haute ever have any city wide events leading up to the Hulman? I do remember the rumors of the Action Track & fairgrounds almost being sold for development. After attending last night, it looks like very few dollars have been invested in the track in recent years. The PA system was hard to hear, lighting poor and the facility just needs an investment. Sad to see for a track with so much history. Seems like many fairgrounds face these same issues.

With regard to your question re: Terre Haute Havin city wide events in the days leading up to the Hulman? Yes! They had daily news coverage from the track about the preparations, stores had Hulman Classic sales, etc. Since qualifications were held on Friday to set the 28 car field for the heats on Saturday, they had a banquet downtown on Friday night for the 28 drivers that qualified for the Saturday show. It got so large it was held in the ISU basketball arena.

With the racetrack being located on the Vigo County Fairgrounds, it’s fate and funding are controlled by the fair board. Don Smith, who was president of Terre Haute First National Bank and was a prominent local businessman was also president of the fair board during the late 60’s and 70’s and was VERY racing oriented. Since his retirement and passing, there has not been much of a “pro racing” Fair board in place. Without Bob Sargent and his TEI organization stepping up, it is likely racing at THAT would just be a memory.

I attended my first race in Terre Haute in 1970, attended college in Terre Haute (no, NOT ISU) from 1973 to 1977, and married a girl from Terre Haute. It is kinda my second home.

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Love how the city businesses were one time involved. The banquet sounds like it was a who's who of drivers, trying to make the coveted 28. I knew Don Smith was quite involved and it probably took a prominent city business person to keep the Action Track alive. As you say, fair board members control the fate. We are lucky that Track Enterprises took over.

Re: Hulman VS National’s
 

To my friends and me, it was obvious that the Hulman Classic was the most important sprint car race in the country. It was on TV, sharing Wide World of Sports equally with The Kentucky Derby and, most important, Chris Economaki was there. :3:

Highly disappointed. Dont know if you blame USAC or THAT would of figured they would invite past champions. Could you call the Hulman Classic a homecoming of past racers? A great storied race. USAC has the best racing could have more bells and whistles.

A couple of years ago the then President of the Fair Board stopped by the campers and asked for folks' thoughts. Several comments were about updating the facility and the general idea of more aggressive attitude toward racing. At least he asked. What surprised was that he said the property was privately owned by a group of investors. I assumed it was owned by some public entity like the county. Does anyone know if that is correct?