Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Since the race season is starting to fire up again I think now is a good time to emphasize track safety. One of my pet peeves are race tracks who continue to deny the racers a properly fitted ambulance at the race track.

The common excuse is that the local ambulance only takes 5 minutes to get there. To me, thats not good enough. When you see ambulances at local high school football games, city festivals, state and local fairs, etc but not at race tracks, it disgusts me. We as racers and race fans should be demanding properly fitted ambulances at all racing events! Be sure to ask the promoter at every venue whether or not they have an ambulance on the grounds before you choose to race there. If they don't have one or refuse to provide one, don't go or load up and leave. Fans can help too by boycotting race tracks where there is no ambulance. It takes a full fledged effort of all of us to make racing safer and having an ambulance onsite for $500-600 is such a small price to pay.

Also, make sure the ambulance isn't just some old ambulance the promoter bought and parked in the infield. That trick does not fly. Make sure the ambulance is either a Basic Life Support or Advanced Life Support ambulance (I think most would prefer ALS) with properly trained EMTs and Paramedics. To read about the difference between BLS and ALS I included a link to an article here: https://firstaidservices.com/differe...right-for-you/

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

As racers we are the one to require this from the promoters/racetrack.We were at a nonwing sprintcar show 2 weeks ago & had a sprint get caught in the catch fence & was injured no ambulance on site.EMS was onsite in 10 minutes.Driver was treated & taken to hospital with concussion later released.Track was lucky could have been bad.Ray3 is right on this Series Directors & Race Promoters must be held responsible as they schedule the events.As Racers we must protect ourselves & make them be at the track.No one wants to not race but this will also protect the track/promoter from possible legal actions.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

I'll probably catch hell for advocating any kind of government regulation, but there should be a law REQUIRING tracks to have an ambulance ready.
Or if tracks & sanctioning organizations do it in their own, this won't be necessary

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

I recently asked a promoter if he had an ambulance onsite for his races. He told me yes they have one at every event. I did a little research and found out his "ambulance" was an EMT in a pick up truck. When I called him out on this he said "that is an ambulance." I'm sorry but an EMT, in a pick up truck, with a first aid bag is nowhere near the same as an ALS ambulance! This is why racers have to unite behind the ambulance requirement and clearly define what we mean by an ambulance.

I've loaded up and went home after finding out there isn't a fire crew or ambulance at the track. There was 22 other teams there and I was the only one to leave. It was a long 3 hour ride home. There are a few tracks I'll never darken their doorstep because of BS like that. I've heard nearly every excuse in the book including they can't legally retain an ambulance on site. Yet it's a requirement to have an ambulance and rescue crew at a high school football game. After loosing both my father and step father in racing accidents and growing up around people like Dick Beebe who helped pave the way for modern safety I won't tolerate it.
Nick Landon

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by revjimk:
I'll probably catch hell for advocating any kind of government regulation, but there should be a law REQUIRING tracks to have an ambulance ready.
Or if tracks & sanctioning organizations do it in their own, this won't be necessary

New Jersey the State Police do just that.

https://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pd...egulations.pdf

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

I remember going to a couple of stock car tracks in the Owensboro, KY area back in the seventies and hearing the announcer ask if any spectator had a station wagon that they could use as an ambulance! Someone in the stands volunteered a really nice 1965 Ford wagon.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

What tracks are you talking about? Around here I can’t recall ever not seeing one. In putnamville they’ve even stopped the races because the ambulance had to leave. Then they would continue once it got back.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Ambulance and a fire and rescue squad should be mandatory at track before any of the competitors agree to set a tire on the track.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

insurance companies require ambulance and fire and rescue to beat the track anytime there are cars running.practice or racing .So you might want to check on insurance also

Doug I was just thinking the same thing. You would think the insurance company would mandate certain minimum requirements for fire and safety including ambulance and such.

Honestly, back when i raced i never gave a crap if there was an ambulance on the property. Being safe was the last thing i was there for. Then one night i needed a ride to the hospital, glad they were there.

What track doesn’t have an ambulance? I am at a race track every week and I have never not seen an ambulance.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

some tracks have an ambulance that cant leave the track.if you need transported you wait for the fire dept.i don't know the training of the people in the track only ambulance but they hopefully could start first aid.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by copper14:
some tracks have an ambulance that cant leave the track.if you need transported you wait for the fire dept.i don't know the training of the people in the track only ambulance but they hopefully could start first aid.

Just being able to administer first aid is not good enough. I would really hope that we can all agree that an ambulance with transport capabilities is the proper type of ambulance to have at a race track. If you have not read the article in my original post I encourage you to do so. There is a vast difference in what can and cannot be done based on the type of ambulance. I know this, I would want the personnel from an ALS ambulance taking care of me if I was injured.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

most tracks have fire & rescue on site be it fire trucks or trucks with spray pumps or extinguishers with volunteers in trucks.they can get to wreck quickly & limit fire hazard.the issue is if driver has injuries & no medical paramedics are available on site.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

One track I will leave nameless, we was at a few years ago all they had was 1 emt, and 2 fire extinguishers at either end of the track. Luckily no one got hurt seriously bad I know there was a kid in a micro that flipped pretty hard and had a concussion as of what I heard. I was very hesitant to race, but I did. After that night I told myself I will do more research on the track and if they don't have a ambulance when we get there we will pack up and leave. Especially after the flip at had in June last year. Also I should've taken an ambulance ride that night, but didn't. Now on if I have a flip or wreck like that again I will be taking an ambulance ride due to implications later on the down the road that I've had from that wreck that didn't get checked out in a timely manner.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

i now ask our touring series about fire & ambulance on site before we get there.I am told what the track has submitted to the series director & must verify when we get there.what a pain in the azz.

“insurance companies require ambulance and fire and rescue to beat the track anytime there are cars running.practice or racing .So you might want to check on insurance also”


That’s not 100% true

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

in this part of the country they don't even have ambulances in every town. All of them are at the county hospital and they have first responders around the county. One track I helped at tried everything they could to get an ambulance but were told it was against county policy to allow an ambulance to go to a non government function and would only provide first responders with the fire Department

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Oh boy, I was a tech insp for a race organization & the director told me, go tell the guys to put heat in their motors:D. I asked, Where's the ambulance? he told me, Don't worry about it go get ready:14: - NO, if it's no big deal why do we require helmets & belts to put heat in?:31: While we argued the ambulance came in, THERE YA HAPPY NOW? - No, I need a hug. YOU A'o get out there:10::10::32:

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

A track around here (Chandler, I mean Neverland speedway) years ago had a ambulance on the grounds but when you looked inside it there was nothing there but a box of band aids, Plus it needed a jump to start,

Paragon, only had an old Meat Wagon, & would have to wait on an Ambulance for a serious injury! I ran there a few times over the years & thankfully it wasn't an issue, but hopefully the New Promoters will have an Actual Mobile Ambulance, there every race night!

There was a time when USAC required 2 ambulances and trained medical staff. We have regressed.

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Brutal honestly here from a different perspective... It's not that simple. First.... we have an ambulance at Jacksonville at every race. I value our partners at our local ambulance company. Nothing I say below is meant to disparage our valued ambulance company or the EMT's on it. When our ambulance leaves, they send another and we wait on it. Our firemen are EMT's too. All is good in that regard and I'm thankful and happy.

BUT... I can see that at some point in the future it's not going to be that easy. There is no requirement that our local ambulance company agree to provide us service. Last year we had 2 ambulance companies in Jacksonville, IL ... and now we just have one. The rate for the ambulance arbitrarily went up 33% this year on the direction of the corporate office 3 hours away with the absence of competition. I initially contacted every other ambulance/volunteer rescue squad in the County looking for a suitable alternative. They don't have staffing to send an ambulance to a race track out of their coverage area every week. That was not an option.

So the current ambulance company is here because at this point they fortunately can get enough people to work a shift to dedicate an ambulance to the race track. I'm happy to pay it - even if it's more. But a few years ago I operated a different race track in a larger town where there was only one ambulance service for the entire county. On some nights they simply could not get anyone to work that extra shift - even though they were offering overtime pay to do it. Fortunately at that track we had a world class fire department with a brush truck that had ALS equipment on board and 2 paramedics - one of whom was certified ALS. Our strategy out of necessity was that the firemen would call for the ambulance at the first sign of a transport situation - which was about a 7 min response time. The firemen's position was that under any circumstances it would take longer than that to prepare a person to transport.

In that same city... when I could get an ambulance they wouldn't send an ALS ambulance. What was irritating was that as soon as anyone complained of head or neck pain - they couldn't be transported in the ambulance that was on site. The ambulance at the track would have to call for the ALS ambulance to transport anyway. Numerous times a person was placed in the ambulance at the track and be transported to the pit shack to wait on the other ambulance - then transfer the driver to the ALS ambulance for the 5 min trip to the hospital. Why did we even have an ambulance on site in the first place if it couldn't transport any potential head or neck injury anyway? Again, in that scenario I was comfortable because I had better EMT's and life support equipment on the fire truck than on the ambulance - when they could even find a staff to show up. But to the racers and racer's family - I was (understandably) the cheap SOB who didn't even have an ambulance at the race track.

Back to Jacksonville - I live at the mercy of our ambulance company to be willing to schedule and send a crew. Thank goodness they always do. But I expect at some point in the coming years that might change. If they can't find a crew to staff an extra shift and sit at the race track all night - even for overtime pay - we won't have an ambulance no matter what I'm willing to pay for one. It's up to them. It's a business - and for a number of reasons it might not make business sense for them some day to dedicate an ambulance to sit at the track. Thank goodness we haven't gotten there yet.

Again.... I think we need one with ALS equipment and staffing and will always do whatever I can to make that happen. But I can't pull one out of thin air. From the experience at the other track, I'm aware that I'm at the mercy of them wanting to come in the first place - and I just have a hunch that sometime down the road in years to come it's not going to be easy to get a crew to the track. I'm sure there are some tracks already in that situation.

Finally... maybe this is the wrong thing to do... but the ride from the race track to the hospital 2 blocks and 2 minutes away costs over $1,000... even though I'm paying them to be there anyway. I've had numerous drivers complain of neck paid and go to the hospital taking a $1,000 ride and getting a few CAT scans etc... and they are back at the track to watch the feature and don't even know that they just incurred over $15,000 in medical/ambulance/radiology bills in the past 2 hours. Yes we have track insurance - and most people now have some form of health insurance. Track insurance pays last - after all other insurance sources have been exhausted. That time delay can and does result in hospitals/collection agencies often hounding you for payment for months as you get your insurance lined out. Even though it's covered - and I don't mind a bit if our insurance has to pay it - I've started at least making a spouse or relative aware prior to the person getting in the ambulance that they are embarking on a minimum $15,000 trip and to just be kind of sure that they need the treatment/trip before just getting hauled off. Again... that's not necessarily the 'right' thing to do... but there are some occasions where your neck might be a little stiff or you might be a little shaken where the full-fledged emergency trip to the ER isn't the wisest way to handle it.

As a track promoter I struggle.. and I'm sure many others struggle.. with navigating the issues above.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Thank you for an honest and realistic post about the situation from your side.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by captrat:
There was a time when USAC required 2 ambulances and trained medical staff. We have regressed.

I believe the World of Outlaws still do. Its funny, every promoter in the country will work their butt off to make sure there are two ambulances so they can have a WoO Sprint Car show but when it comes to their weekly show, or a lesser traveling series, suddenly its a struggle just to get one ambulance.

When checking up on one promoter recently I found that the reason one ambulance company refused to work the track was because the track was behind on payment. They were more than willing to supply an ambulance but they hesitate to do it for race tracks because they feared not getting paid. Unfortunately, some promoters ruin it for others.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

after reading all these comments I will make a point to seek out the EMS & Fire personel at each track we race at with our series & thank them for being there.

I remember a lengthy delay at Terre Haute several years ago for a USAC race because the doctor hadn’t arrived.
Does USAC still have this requirement?

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Thank you for bringing your perspective, on all these different aspects of running and promoting a race track and race sanctioning organization, to our message board. You're a real asset to IOW and your streams of thought are always very well laid out and I always learn a lot by what you share.

Jerry

Originally Posted by kdobson:
Brutal honestly here from a different perspective... It's not that simple. First.... we have an ambulance at Jacksonville at every race. I value our partners at our local ambulance company. Nothing I say below is meant to disparage our valued ambulance company or the EMT's on it. When our ambulance leaves, they send another and we wait on it. Our firemen are EMT's too. All is good in that regard and I'm thankful and happy.

BUT... I can see that at some point in the future it's not going to be that easy. There is no requirement that our local ambulance company agree to provide us service. Last year we had 2 ambulance companies in Jacksonville, IL ... and now we just have one. The rate for the ambulance arbitrarily went up 33% this year on the direction of the corporate office 3 hours away with the absence of competition. I initially contacted every other ambulance/volunteer rescue squad in the County looking for a suitable alternative. They don't have staffing to send an ambulance to a race track out of their coverage area every week. That was not an option.

So the current ambulance company is here because at this point they fortunately can get enough people to work a shift to dedicate an ambulance to the race track. I'm happy to pay it - even if it's more. But a few years ago I operated a different race track in a larger town where there was only one ambulance service for the entire county. On some nights they simply could not get anyone to work that extra shift - even though they were offering overtime pay to do it. Fortunately at that track we had a world class fire department with a brush truck that had ALS equipment on board and 2 paramedics - one of whom was certified ALS. Our strategy out of necessity was that the firemen would call for the ambulance at the first sign of a transport situation - which was about a 7 min response time. The firemen's position was that under any circumstances it would take longer than that to prepare a person to transport.

In that same city... when I could get an ambulance they wouldn't send an ALS ambulance. What was irritating was that as soon as anyone complained of head or neck pain - they couldn't be transported in the ambulance that was on site. The ambulance at the track would have to call for the ALS ambulance to transport anyway. Numerous times a person was placed in the ambulance at the track and be transported to the pit shack to wait on the other ambulance - then transfer the driver to the ALS ambulance for the 5 min trip to the hospital. Why did we even have an ambulance on site in the first place if it couldn't transport any potential head or neck injury anyway? Again, in that scenario I was comfortable because I had better EMT's and life support equipment on the fire truck than on the ambulance - when they could even find a staff to show up. But to the racers and racer's family - I was (understandably) the cheap SOB who didn't even have an ambulance at the race track.

Back to Jacksonville - I live at the mercy of our ambulance company to be willing to schedule and send a crew. Thank goodness they always do. But I expect at some point in the coming years that might change. If they can't find a crew to staff an extra shift and sit at the race track all night - even for overtime pay - we won't have an ambulance no matter what I'm willing to pay for one. It's up to them. It's a business - and for a number of reasons it might not make business sense for them some day to dedicate an ambulance to sit at the track. Thank goodness we haven't gotten there yet.

Again.... I think we need one with ALS equipment and staffing and will always do whatever I can to make that happen. But I can't pull one out of thin air. From the experience at the other track, I'm aware that I'm at the mercy of them wanting to come in the first place - and I just have a hunch that sometime down the road in years to come it's not going to be easy to get a crew to the track. I'm sure there are some tracks already in that situation.

Finally... maybe this is the wrong thing to do... but the ride from the race track to the hospital 2 blocks and 2 minutes away costs over $1,000... even though I'm paying them to be there anyway. I've had numerous drivers complain of neck paid and go to the hospital taking a $1,000 ride and getting a few CAT scans etc... and they are back at the track to watch the feature and don't even know that they just incurred over $15,000 in medical/ambulance/radiology bills in the past 2 hours. Yes we have track insurance - and most people now have some form of health insurance. Track insurance pays last - after all other insurance sources have been exhausted. That time delay can and does result in hospitals/collection agencies often hounding you for payment for months as you get your insurance lined out. Even though it's covered - and I don't mind a bit if our insurance has to pay it - I've started at least making a spouse or relative aware prior to the person getting in the ambulance that they are embarking on a minimum $15,000 trip and to just be kind of sure that they need the treatment/trip before just getting hauled off. Again... that's not necessarily the 'right' thing to do... but there are some occasions where your neck might be a little stiff or you might be a little shaken where the full-fledged emergency trip to the ER isn't the wisest way to handle it.

As a track promoter I struggle.. and I'm sure many others struggle.. with navigating the issues above.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by hoscalecody:
One track I will leave nameless, we was at a few years ago all they had was 1 emt, and 2 fire extinguishers at either end of the track. Luckily no one got hurt seriously bad I know there was a kid in a micro that flipped pretty hard and had a concussion as of what I heard. I was very hesitant to race, but I did. After that night I told myself I will do more research on the track and if they don't have a ambulance when we get there we will pack up and leave. Especially after the flip at had in June last year. Also I should've taken an ambulance ride that night, but didn't. Now on if I have a flip or wreck like that again I will be taking an ambulance ride due to implications later on the down the road that I've had from that wreck that didn't get checked out in a timely manner.

Why leave it nameless? Don't you think drivers should know about this? :11:

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Exactly, if you can't name names then it NEVER happened and you are part of the problem.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by ronmil:
I remember a lengthy delay at Terre Haute several years ago for a USAC race because the doctor hadn’t arrived.
Does USAC still have this requirement?

We had a guy in high school we called “The Doctor.” I wonder if it was the same guy?

After that moment in levity, let me tell you my story. First, let me explain my situation. I am partners with two other guys in our race team. The high-end teams probably spend more in a weekend than we spend all season. We run on used tires and tired motors. I can count on one hand the number of times we had a legitimate shot at winning the feature.

This was one of those magic nights. We were running a non-winged dirt race. Jim was driving and he set 2nd or 3rd quick time. He won the heat going away and was scheduled to start on the front row of the feature. Jim looked more determined than I ever saw him.

Then we became aware there wasn’t an ambulance or rescue crew. After a very brief discussion between us, we loaded up and left. We were only one of three teams that left. Everybody knew, they just chose to race.

My point is, its not always just the track. If racers show up and agree to race, in my mind, they are just as much at fault as the track. I will accept there not being an ambulance on site, if there is a well-trained rescue crew. I honestly would rather have someone like PTS on site than some of the EMT’s I’ve seen. The EMT’s can treat, but they’re not equipped to cut someone out of the car.

I’ve said my piece, I’ll go back to putting the race car together now.

Tom Paterson

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by TommyTipover:
Exactly, if you can't name names then it NEVER happened and you are part of the problem.

Reason I left it nameless is not to shame them even more, because this incident happened 3 years ago and after talking to someone it seems like this issue was fixed at end of 2017 in to the full season of 2018 and there was a
big thread that got nasty a few years ago about it which I think actually got deleted. I was just giving my story. On a side note we also didn't start our A until 2:45-3:00 AM that night.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by hoscalecody:
Reason I left it nameless is not to shame them even more, because this incident happened 3 years ago and after talking to someone it seems like this issue was fixed at end of 2017 in to the full season of 2018 and there was a
big thread that got nasty a few years ago about it which I think actually got deleted. I was just giving my story. On a side note we also didn't start our A until 2:45-3:00 AM that night.

OK, glad they fixed it....:23:

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

Originally Posted by 1121:
We had a guy in high school we called “The Doctor.” I wonder if it was the same guy?

After that moment in levity, let me tell you my story. First, let me explain my situation. I am partners with two other guys in our race team. The high-end teams probably spend more in a weekend than we spend all season. We run on used tires and tired motors. I can count on one hand the number of times we had a legitimate shot at winning the feature.

This was one of those magic nights. We were running a non-winged dirt race. Jim was driving and he set 2nd or 3rd quick time. He won the heat going away and was scheduled to start on the front row of the feature. Jim looked more determined than I ever saw him.

Then we became aware there wasn’t an ambulance or rescue crew. After a very brief discussion between us, we loaded up and left. We were only one of three teams that left. Everybody knew, they just chose to race.

My point is, its not always just the track. If racers show up and agree to race, in my mind, they are just as much at fault as the track. I will accept there not being an ambulance on site, if there is a well-trained rescue crew. I honestly would rather have someone like PTS on site than some of the EMT’s I’ve seen. The EMT’s can treat, but they’re not equipped to cut someone out of the car.

I’ve said my piece, I’ll go back to putting the race car together now.

Tom Paterson

Wow.... I respect your wise & responsible decision
But i'm surprised that you left. You already took a bunch of big chances & were SO close...:22:

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

So, the topic of ambulances leaving the facility or not leaving the facility is an interesting topic. I have been at tracks where this has happened. I have watched driver exchanges occur at the end of the property. However, I have also seen tracks where Air-Life helicopters have been flown in. If you have the ability for one, does it matter that you don't have the ability for another?

I do agree with the comment about track ambulances being only there for show. I find those to be the most troubling solution that we have.

Finally, I find KDobson's comments the most interesting. I have been to tracks in a small community that has to stop the show to wait for the ambulance to make another run. They were at the track, but had to leave the track to take care of something else only to come back. I thought that it was a strange situation, but now it seems that it might not be that strange. As someone who has been on this board numerous times questioning the attitude our sport takes around safety (btw, it sucks), the comment about "coaching" the driver to think about the ambulance ride was very interesting. I think it shows that at some point everyone needs to be practical and use common sense.

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I can't believe the larger traveling series do not have a few extensively trained medics traveling with them to help educate the local EMS and fire providers how to care for and or extricate injured drivers, on that note I think there also needs to be a concussion protocol also.

Re: Ambulances at Race Tracks
 

See all this talk about ambulance at the track, some of you drivers need to look at your safety gear, fire suits that look more like coveralls, wearing a sweat soaked t-shirt will get you burned by boiling sweat, old belts. My friend Tom Davies found out last yr about old belts, God was w/ him on that ride. Remember when buying a helmet you're not buying a hat, the helmets to protect you, should fit firmly, rock it up & down, do you eyebrows move to? Next tie it in place w/ your hood on, now reach around to the back & see if you can pull it off, if you can it's too big. Gloves, their should be fire proof material behind the leather on the palm, leather will shrink in a fire. All your clothing should be fire proof don't skimp
Drivers, do you race on a 1/4 mile w/ walls or 1/2 mile w/ no walls? How long will it take the safety crew to get to me. Burns are a horrible thing to deal w/, friend of my dads got cooked 3rd degree burns on 60 - 70% of his body, I saw him.
Your family needs you :deadhorse:

This^ I've seen this at Grundy County years ago. They had a ambulance, it belonged to the Fair. I don't know of the training of the people in it, but it couldn't leave the track. So it would sit out near US47 and wait for the local ambulance to come and take the driver off their hands.
Back at the Joliet Stadium they used to have a private Ambulance company,and the hospital was just a few blocks away. But when it left with a driver, racing stopped until another showed up.