Safety Thread
 

1. Foam cap that fits the cage?
2. Tires around the top of concrete walls?
3. Age limit ? Local
4. Track Prep.
5. Driver Safety


Lets expand on these ideas.

#1 good idea! But how do you form it fit all cages? Maybe like indy car seats?

#2 Place tires on top of concrete wall edge. Up and down so more tire compression and chusioning. Tires laid flat would have less compress area.

#3 Tough call. Kids with dads money? kids that can drive but no $, .25 upgraders.

#4 Scrach the track when it slicks over. Claw it up maybe 1 inch deep. Add a little rough ness for tires to grab on? spend 10 minutes scratching the track before the main and toss a little water.

#5 Maybe Impact would help with testing various neck systems for open wheel cars? They all help but what one is the best for open wheel.


:dologob:


Lots of important Racing people pass thru the site. Maybe good ideas might become suggested rules and help make the sport safer.

Re: Safety Thread
 

[QUOTE=D.O.;69561]1. Foam cap that fits the cage?
I could see things like putting Nerfs on a shock absorber wiht a low rebound rate significantly absorbing shock and kinetic energy slowing a nose to tale significantly. Don't know how feasable it is. Cap? I don't know. If there is some significantly shock absorbing material that could wrap the cage Id be for that but the top of the car is the fastest emergency escape with drivers using high cockpit sides and nets.

2. Tires around the top of concrete walls?
More like Fences flush with tops of concrete walls or no open wheel racing. This is 2008 and cars still comming down on top of walls and exiting tracks are just unjustified or called for

3. Age limit ? Local
No but Id have them judged among peers of the track as to after say 3-5 races they are still exhibiting dangerous and careless driving as to if they can continue.

4. Track Prep.
I know of no promotor who preps his track to be dangerous on purpose. Slower and harder also means harder impact, more spins ect. Holes and ruts should at least be given attention. This does not mean cushions should be graded off or packed down unless its excessive

5. Driver Safety
The only thing I see here is some not being patient enough. Better to finish second and race again than make a risky move at least early in a race that could end a career or life. Use every saftey device available to you thats proven.


It's not my life, health or equiptment. I just want to see you guys race next week and live long productive lives.

Lets expand on these ideas.

Re: Safety Thread
 

As far as the age deal talent has little to due with younger kids in sprint cars, how much there developing body can withstand is what should be considered. I do not want to think about what this would have done to somebody younger and not in the great shape Arin is in. The longer and higher they bank the the tracks the faster these cars are going to go, the word self cleaning has been used as a reason for the banking what until while the track is cleaning its self and just happens to take a cage off of a passing car. This is not directed at anyone as I know the people running the tracks do not want to see anybody get hurt. Talk to some of the drivers just before Eldora, they want the race over as soon as possible due to the risk that track holds. I hope whoever takes over Gas City does not make it longer and add a bunch of banking adding yet another night of white knuckle racing for all involved. I also know you can get hurt at any track. Again this is just my opinion and not meant to make anyone mad.

Jerry #66j
www.joshspencer.com

Re: Safety Thread
 

why not just slow the cars down. take away horse power. hitting a wall at 100 mph has to be better than hitting a wall at 130 mph. with today's safety equipment slowing down the cars would be huge. but no one wants to slow down the cars. what do i hear, if you want to go slower go run a 305 cu in sprint or a sportsman midget, it would cost too much money, and so on.

just my 2 cents.

Re: Safety Thread
 

take up golfing?


but seriously tho... I think walls should be the main focus. Soft walls would be ideal if money wasnt an issue.

Re: Safety Thread
 

1. foam cap- not practical...likely not effective...would make an interesting test...
let's try just enforcing USAC's cage height rule (largely ignored- good rule!)
Recently heard USAC discuss this rule on the scanner and they elected not to
enforce it- that was a terrible idea! Enforce it and check it every night!
2. tires atop concrete walls- not convinced there is value (hey, who thought
rectangular steel panels with stryofoam mounts would be valuable!) There are
some improvements to fence design that might be helpful. Face it, fences and
flipping race cars are a bad combination.
3. age limit- gut tells me usually age/experience=better judgment...factual?
4. track prep- I believe ruts are the bad things...everything else is relative...
faster means harder hits
5. driver safety- head and neck restraints are not debatable, try them see which is
best for you (the new R2 looks very good on sled stats)...head nets on both
sides are needed...more consistent use of better seat tech...replace your belts
every 2 years and watch how they are installed...replace your helmet and suit
periodically...wear your FR underwear!

Look at the Stenhouse crash at Eldora...that's what the good stuff will do for you!

It is great to see a discussion like this...great feedback!

Re: Safety Thread
 

now i can add take up golfing to the list. it just keeps going.

Re: Safety Thread
 

1. How do you attach it? What happens on the second flip ?

2. Good idea, bit I keep thinking of that piece of rubber on Anderson's pit entrance. It works like a slingshot when hit.

3. Age limits. A couple more serious injuries to youngsters, the insurance
companies will do it.

4. Track prep. Promoters say a heavy track is too fast and dangerous. Others say a hard slickie is, you can't drive around a problem.In the end this comes down to the driver, to decide how much is too much.

5.I've said this a million times. You can buy a used tire, weezer motor, always , but always, buy the best safety gear you can.

Re: Safety Thread
 

The foam cap was my idea. It could be made with a can of spray foam insulation , just use a box to make the foam block or just make a foam block with wire ties to attach it to the top of the cage. You asked what about the second flip? the idea is to take as much energy out of the moving mass (the car) on the first impact and to help protect the drivers head . Also if the car has made that first impact on its top most likely the foam is now gone ,opening the exit route out the top of the car. I also think a wider cage would give more room to mount a better capsule type of seat ,or maybe a loop type of bar that would be mounted to the cage behind the driver to keep the head area of the cage farther away from the wall . Get well soon to Arin and Kenny.

Re: Safety Thread
 

after talking to some people i think the key idea is a safety inspection at the track... i honeslty dont think other than usac i have ever seen sprint car safety tech, im not trying to offend anyone but i think there is a lot more that could be done in making sure helmets were up to date, belts were sfi dated recent, belts are installed correctly, seats are mounted properly, there is enough head room between the top of the drivers helmet and cage, i mean the lis could go on and on, but like Andrew Prather and i were talking and he brought up the idea there should be a group of officials, one from each track that meet one a month, to come up with these standards, clear cars by tech stickers, all the years andy and i raced go karts out stuff was safety checked every day, i think people would be surprised how many cars arent really safe....

Re: Safety Thread
 

Great to see safety threads. Lots of good ideas being kicked around can only help.

My $.02 would be that this can be a win/win. We all love high speed and are always striving for more, that is what it is all about. But, if everyone were on a tire that durometered out at about a 90, we could effectively slow that cars down, thereby increasing safety, and cut the tire bills at the same time. Win/win. A side benefit would be that the local budget racer wouldn't get beat by a guy with unlimited funds for soft tires. Now, let the beatings begin.:icon_smile_blackeye

Also, how about contacting a group like USAC, or even HARF to create a committee that would visit each track pre or post season to inspect the track, walls, fencing, flagstand, grandstands, pits, etc. to offer suggestions on how to make the entire facility safer? It wouldn't take a panel of "experts", just some safety minded folks to offer some opinions to the track owners/officials. Who knows what that might lead to, perhaps this group could even offer a "safety certification" that could be tied into some sort of discounts for insurance for the track?

Re: Safety Thread
 

thanks Al for the confidence you have in us. we all know that tracks try the best they can, and it's a huge job, but surprisingly sometimes it's something right under your nose that you don't see. personal example, my wife has ms and needs a wheelchair or scooter to get around and at the race tracks has issues with grab bars in the restrooms, something most of us don't even think about, but very important to her. obviously something a track owner wouldn't even think about but we have brought it to their attention and usually the very next week repairs are made, thus making her happier and safer (special thanks again to Gas City, Bloomington, & Kokomo). i think the same thing goes for track safety, sometimes the most obvious things aren't seen. one very old fashion and simple-minded idea (easy coming from me) is a suggestion box at the back gate for crews and drivers, i know the tracks will get alot of b.s., but possible some helpful ideas too.
the main idea in my opinion, and the one that has been around for years and years now, is reducing the width of the tires. who can say that the old Hoosier Hundreds in the 60's weren't some of the fastest and most exciting races ever.
j.m.h.o., but i hate to think about reducing the age of our drivers, i still have great memories of seeing a 13 year old Jeff Gordon at Bloomington kicking butt, but their safety and long life is so much more important. this will all be worked out, but face it, racing is dangerous, and drivers will be hurt, all we can hope to do is reduce the damage. necessity is the mother of invention. bob:checkered:

Re: Safety Thread
 

The cage cap idea is lazyphoto;s idea from the get-go.
Great Idea.

Maybe some folkes could come up with a design, how to mount it? doesn't impinge on drivers vision? survive more than 1st impact.

Keep the ideas coming?

:dologob: will be having some safety guest on the show to talk about products out there. on Mondays @ 7 PM for the winter.
:Steer

Re: Safety Thread
 

Broc,
This is very "spot on" as to what should be put in place. When I talk to a driver or a crew member about a possible issue on their car while I'm at the tracks, they are always thankful for the input, and most of the times, were not really aware of a possible issue. If one official was taught what to look for, and just did a weekly walk through the pits prior to hot laps with a tech check list, we could inform and fix A LOT of potential problems that ARE out there as you said. Let them run, but give them a week to correct the problem if needed, so when they come back the following week, the official would sign off/sticker the car and equipment.

Ken Joyce
KRJ Race Products LLC
Brownsburg, IN
ken@krjraceproducts.com

Re: Safety Thread
 

after losing my father jerry landon 19 years ago in a mini champ, and my step father scott seaton last summer in a winged pavement car, i have seen many guys doing the wrong things with the right safety equipment. no sfi roll bar padding, no cage nets, seat belts that are too long and are over the seat edge with no bar under them. my dad didnt have much saftey equipment. in 1989 safety wasnt check like it should have been. with my step dad he had done everything right but it just wasnt enough.
i just think its part of our sport. when my grandfather ran super mods in the 60s and 70s guys were getting hurt all the time. things are much safer today than years past.
i do think there are guys that are great drivers, but do drive harder than they should at times. up here in michigan most of are tracks are dry and slick. after talking to some of the track owners they like it that way. it slows guys down and makes them drive their cars with finesse rather than balls. kinda sucks when it is to dusty to see but we arent trashing cars and sending drivers to hospital every night.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Never been checked at a local show for much more than the correct spec right rear tire.
At the first MSCS race we attended the car got a good look over by an official. It was
very comforting to know that safety was on their mind.

Necessary changes must take time to envision, engineer, evaluate and implement. In the
interim every car should be certified as meeting or exceeding current safety requirements.

{Just my2 pennies worth} Dave

Re: Safety Thread
 

i hate to see anyone get hurt in a racing accident but lets not turn this into nascar crap. drivers know about the dangers when they strap on that suit and helmet. that is what makes the thrill even more thrilling this isnt the best racing for nothing.

Re: Safety Thread
 

I think that safety superceeds all presedence for keeping the sport traditional, and letting people know the dangers, many times you dont realize its a problem until its too late

Re: Safety Thread
 

What upsets me is Ideas are ideas and inventions are inventions. Some work, some don't and those that do are great.

The thing that bothers me is the safety issues that exist, are mentioned a hundred times and never get attention. Padded bars, Blunt ended guardrails. Walls with no fence and drop offs behind them even parking lots, Low fences ect.
First fix the obvious and work on the whats possible.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Yes, they / we know the dangers of our sport, but they may not know what is a possible danger with the equipment or lack of, that could easily be put in place.....How is that NASCAR Crap. And what you call crap, was many dedicated hours led by a friend of many in this biz, the late Steve Peterson who's shoe's will be impossible to replace. Also a lot of research time and dollars by FIA,IRL, NHRA, GM, FORD, CHRYSLER, TOYOTA, SFI and others are being spent to help improve the safety of drivers in this sport we all love. We can, and do learn from these efforts, and if we can help others to apply it smartly and properly it is not crap. Tell a parent or a spouce of an injured driver "at least it was thrilling"............. I don't like tick people off on this board since I am a business owner, but your comments on this post Pup were way out of line.

Thank you,
Ken Joyce
KRJ Race Products
Brownsburg

Re: Safety Thread
 

Pup, you're way out of line. I don't know how old you are, and I'm younger then some here, but I remember going to a lot of funerals in the late 80's and early 90's.
That shouldn't be a part of the game.

Re: Safety Thread
 

what i meant by the crap thing was the car of tomorrow and things like that slows the cars down. nascar makes all of these rules and regulations about safety so no one gets hurt and that is fine but when you start taking the race out of racing that is when problems arise. climbing into an 850-900 horsepower openwheel car that weighs around 1200 lbs cant ask for a whole lot. you have your helmet, and fire suits, along with a roll cage, hans device, arm restraints. i dont know what else you can do without taking away from the sport like nascar does. the driver knows what he or she is climbing into when they strap themselves into the car.
i will end on that.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Well, it didn't take long for D.O.'s "Safety Thread" to go awry !

My comments are from the perspective of a driving career begun in 1971 to present and from the experience of more than 700 feature starts.

NASCAR has made great strides in safety since 2001 and they are to be commended in that effort. Safety was largely a responsibility of the teams prior to that time. Yes, it took the death of a high profile racer and hero to many , Dale Earnhardt , for NASCAR to get serious. That's just how it happened , no blame passed. It is what it is.

Drivers are aware that many in the stands come in hopes of seeing a good wreck.
How many are looking for injury or death has never been determined as no one has been willing to own up. I personally think it's a very small statistic. The typical fan and casual fan seeks value in entertainment. The racing purist understands the mechanics of the game ... driver skill , mechanical preparation , and track conditions / configurations. Everyone may seek something different and take from it what they may.

As a young driver you think about getting killed. The older driver worries about getting injured. Either way it is a calculated risk. And you accept it.
As your career continues and without injury you have seen bad things happen to others. Drivers believe in themselves and in private thoughts depend on the hope that if something goes wrong it won't be them. We've all seen bad things happen to many others.

Drivers who are competing with inferior safety equipment know it. They see what others have. They are not stupid when it comes to equipment of any nature whether it be a helmet or a cylinder head , drivers know the difference. Some bought the new helmet this year , others bought the new cylinder head. Some can't afford both and the racer instinct is to consider what you're taking off the trailer rather than what you're putting on your head. After all , that helmet still looks pretty good , it hasn't failed you and besides , you wore it all last season without problem many will reason.

After you've mandated all new personal safety equipment every two years and verified adhearance to the rule book in car construction , there really isn't alot remaining to truly make this activity "safer" .... until you really want to take issue with the tracks ( as there are problems aplenty ); and then address the rigidity of the frames .... and the upright seating position .... cage halos 4 inches above the head .... and so forth.

Real improvements in safety come at a high cost through research and continued development. Who's going to run and pay for that program in Sprints and Midgets ?

I've rambled and I apologize. Since late Saturday evening all I've thought of is a beautiful young lady who is in a fight for her young life ... and parents in distress with unspeakable grief who can only watch and wait. This is the very ugly side of auto racing. At times like this I don't even like the sport.

Arin may not race again. My prayer is that God may give her the opportunity to make that choice on a day real soon ! May God bless this family.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Folks. Everyone on here should remember why sprint car racing is so great. Fast, Action Packed, and Very Dangerious. They used to write-off a driver once a week when my Dad started in sprint and midgets. And that didnt stop the great drivers. They understood that any given night they could die in a crash. THIS IS STILL SPRINT CAR RACING AND PEOPLE WILL GET HURT OR KILLED NO MATTER WHAT. If these same crashes that have happened in the last few months would have happened 5 years ago. They may not be here at all. So count your blessing and pray for the ones that have been unfortunate. Sprint cars will never be injury or crash proof. That is why some people watch they sit there and wait for the next crash. It is sad to say but that is reality. And the other thing people need to wake up and see that Sprint cars are not a direct line to Nascar. They help, but just because you raced sprints and midget doesnt mean Jack Roush or Joe Gibbs is going to be calling Monday morning if you win a saturday local show. Just like High School, College, and Pro Football. Only 2% of High School players get to go and play College. Only 2% of College players go Pro. And that is just they way with .25 midgets, Midgets/Sprints, Nascar. I am done venting and will wait to get beat up by responders

Re: Safety Thread
 

Brock and Prather are right about safety tech. There isn't any to my knowledge at the local scene. The problem the tracks face on that point is that once they start inspecting the cars and then when there is a problem, then they have opened themselves up to speculation and possibly have to take the responsabilty since they approved the car and driver. That is a big risk today.

In a sport when you still see guys running without fire proof undies(tees or nothing at all), it is hard to convince them to do things like mount the seat properly and wear the proper safety gear. With all of the false bravado and devil may care attitude that is prevaliant amongst some drivers, how far do you really want to go to try and protect someone from themselves without all of the responsability being transferred to you?

I agree that many of the problems come from just general lack of knowledge, but also a general feeling of:"It can't happen to me".

In reality, even though there is some adjustability built into the cars as far as the cockpit goes, all drivers require some differences and in many ways the cars need to be custom built or adjusted for each one.

So many guys complain about the Hans and the like, but often it's the cost of the product that makes them sqawk and not the actual product itself. I do know that some guys in the past did have a problem with it hurting their shoulders, but I believe that has been taken care of with the different sizes. There is also the question or rear impact, but I believe that with a seat where the head area is relieved for the unit, you run into less of a problem with that.

There is only so much you can do to protect the driver, but one of the first hurdles is getting a driver to want to protect themselves.

Drivers need to inspect the cockpit and identify anything that could hurt them. They need to make the seats and pedals where they are comfortable and won't phsically wear them out. Drivers need to keep themselves in the proper physical and mental shape when competing so they don't wear out. A "death grip" on the wheel will cause the driver to wear out the same as a driver who isn't physically strong enough to compete over a long distance.

Head Nets,Containment seats, properly placed seat and shoulder bars,Hans, Fender washers, 3/8 Bolts, fire proof undies etc... are all items that should be used.

No matter what though; as long as sprint car and midget racing is around, so will injuried drivers. No matter how safe the cars are made to be.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Billy Putterbaugh is exactly RIGHT!

You guys are going off the deep end with this %$#@&!

I have been to every track here in Indiana and some in Illinois and haven't seen any of these problems. Nor have I seen cars that aren't "safe".

Like I said in another post, Sprint and Midget racing is the most dangerous circle track racing there is. If you don't recognize this or believe it YOU DON'T NEED TO BE IN ONE!!!

Like Billy said, we all assume these risks when we strap in one. I also don't think these "kids" need to be in a sprint car just because Jeff Gordon drove one. No disrespect to their talent but I don't want to be the one that has to live with hurting someone else expecially a teenager if it was to happen.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Just my $.02 worth. The padding above the cage is a great idea. I think that is were the wing idea started back in the 70's when they started to run them. I could be wrong. Lets face it. Non wing sprint cars and the drivers are like bulls and cowboys. People go to watch because they know someone is going to get "bucked" and both the drivers and the riders know that this could happen. The wing idea does not work all the time either. Kenny Jacobs was in a wing car this summer and got hurt and had to call it quits. I hate to see anyone get hurt and I see a lot of wild rides at Kokomo every Sunday. When I step out there to help clean up the wrecks I count my blessings when the driver pops out and is o.k. I think the cage nets, full containment seats, hans, better material that they use to make helmets with now like Kevlar, Hi-Poly fiberglass is a great thing. These guys and gals that strap into these cars know it is going to happen. The idea I have for top impacts on the cages is maybe a foam block pad that straps to the cage. My dad use to use something similar back in the 80's that strapped around the steering box to protect his knees from smacking the gear box if he went upside down. I am not saying it is the perfect answer. However, like someone said in the earlier post. If it can take the first impact and absorb some energy like the softer walls that NASCAR use. Maybe it will give these drivers a chance. The other thing is, and not to piss off chassis builders. I have seen the tops of cages get bent even on what I would call minimal impacts. I remember this year at Kokomo looking at a right side of the roll cage that really did not take a hard impact from another vehicle and it was bent down to the helmet level of the driver. I say maybe we need to start having the cages of the cars built out of thicker tubing that can take a hard impact. It may make the cars stiffer, but then you also get the cars to slow down when they can not bite as hard into the track. Just my ideas. Thanks

Re: Safety Thread
 

We all know sprint car racing is dangerous. Everytime you strap in it could be your last. But shame on us if we do not try to learn from each accident on how to make this sport safer. If we had the attitude that I have seen from some of the posts we still would have no roll cages, short sleeve shirts, and leather caps. Just the advances from when I started are amazing like from low back seats to high back seats to full containment seats. Look how many arms have been saved since arm restaints. So if we can make this sport safer we have got to look at it. Motormasher you must not look very close at cars if you have not seen guys running cars that are not safe. Old belts, belts mounted improperly, head out of the cage or to close the list goes on and on. I see no problem with tracks or organizations checking all cars for safety. I am thankfull for every saftey improvement that we have seen over the years and hope to see more. I would hate to think of some of the crashes I have taken over the last few years with my original low back seat with the belts the way the were mounted at that time. You guys have got to realize the speeds get quicker each year so saftey has to evolve with the speed. In 1986 we were turning 12 second laps with a wing at Bloomington. Now everyone is consistantly in the low 11 second bracket without wings. So thanks to all that have came up with all the safety advancements that I have seen over the years and look for more in years to come.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Does anyone have any pics of Charlie Fishers cars that he built in the 90's? They had a funny car-style cage inside of the roll cage that sort of wrapped around your head and/or upper body, behind the seat. Seems like that would be a good thing to look into again. There is also a Canadian racer that I have heard builds his own cars in a very similar fashion, but I can't remember his name and can't seem to find any info by searching on Hoseheads.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Thats just what amazes me. Some of the fixes or damage control like roll bar padding are cheap fixes in danger of breaking nobody and it isn't done. I took pics of all cars at the first two twin cities shows and a full 2/3rds had no roll bar padding. 1/3rd had no nets almost half didn't have containment seats, some little more than a aluminum bench that didn't even come the full length of the back. and about 1/2 didn't use shields.

I thought USAC mandated bar padding and shields back in the 80s-90s I could be totally wrong and the pics I have aren't a usac show or neither was the midget week show I seen a full three months later at Gas City where it was about the same in basic safety equiptment.

Is it worth 10 bucks for a net or 5 dollars for some padding and tape to save your life?

Your risk, I know. I climbed into a bomber with a stock seat and over the shoulder belt with no fireproof uniform. The chance to race is kinda undenyable but most of the teams have hours every nite and time before a race to check the little things as well as the majors, Maybe a Checklist before stagging?

In some cases those missing items were on the same teams with different drivers.

Chuck, again only wishing everybody ends the night in one piece.

Re: Safety Thread
 

I agree with Billy as well. You are never going to be 100% protected. Me personally; I like seeing people race safely, but many of the people who say that racing is dangerous and it is what it is, wouldn't get in a car without a cage.

If you announced at a drivers meeting that in order to race you had to cut the cage off, put on a tee(only),strap in with a rope, and wear a Cromwell;there would be alot of tough talkers loading up. Hell most guys can't race without an arm guard let alone no power steering and pump brakes and fuel.

There would be some guys left for sure, but you would sure see who is serious and who is not.

All of this tough talk is just that. It's just racing and many of the "tough guys" on here don't race for a living. They have a 9-5 and family to look after. Just go race, protect yourself and be smart.

After the one thread I had looked up a photo that I thought to be recent of Arins' car and it had a net and padding. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case. I feel terrible for her and her family because I, like many others on here, know what it is like racing with a family member. I wish them the best and I'm sure that she will be able to tell us about someday soon.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Hey Risky, I have seen a few guys in cars that their heads came "almost" to the top of the cage and the reason I have always looked for this is because I remember several years ago a guy at Paragon that got upside down and landed on his cage and severly compressed his head and neck. I can't remember his name but it ended his driving career if I am not mistaken.

I am not for "full" containment seats because I have heard too many drivers that have them say they just beat your head side to side on rough tracks and in a crash its going to do the same thing. I don't like the cage nets either for the same reason and because they block your vision and make it harder to get out of the car in a crash. JUST MY OPINION.

Re: Safety Thread
 

:headbang I'm bitin my tongue here...someone else what to take this one???

Re: Safety Thread
 

Hes entitled to his opinion no matter how wrong it may be. However I've seen twice what happens when you head leaves the cage area or hits it.

Chuck

Re: Safety Thread
 

If your fastened in right (seatbelted) and wear the proper head restraints your head isn't supposed to get "out" of the cockpit.

As for you KRJoyce1, you have to be a safety salesman from the posts you made earlier just trying to make everybody "buy" every thing they make. Tell Steve Kinser he has to wear all this stuff. Here we go with somebody wanting to Govern everything about racing.

Re: Safety Thread
 

In response to Motormasher, I drive a winged 410 in OH. My seat is a lightweight Ultrashield that I welded on the Randy Lajoie head & neck kit to. I then added 1/4" thick ribs along the shoulder wraparounds so I could fasten 1/4" U-shaped aluminum pcs to the A-frame behind the seat (similar to how a Butlerbuilt Advantage seat attaches to the frame). In addition, I hand formed 3/4" aluminum tubing to match the outline of the bottom two-thirds of the seat, then split the tubing length wise and welded it to the seat. I now have a custom, very stiff full-containment seat that I love, that I only have about $750 in.

Even though that is his opinion, as he stated-and apparantly from a fans point of view- Motormasher couldn't be more wrong. On the roughest tracks we race on, I can only remember my head hitting the side supports once or twice. While I don't run any nets since I made this seat (they don't fit through the seat), not once did a net or my head supports on my seat ever obstruct my vision, even when I have went to L'burg or Moler and ran non-winged. With my helmet on, I have about an inch of play on either side of my helmet. Many people don't realize how much better the better seats are for your back in a side crash, just due to the stiffness. I slid into a tracter tire sideways a couple of years ago, busting the rearend housing and bending the car like a banana. I was fine, with the exception of my seat opening so far that my back was pretty far out of whack for quite a while. My current seat will not budge in a hit like that, if it ever happens again.

Re: Safety Thread
 

Just what in your opinion is a proper head restraint since you claim to not use them? If your belts stretch a inch and you head moves another inch, whats to keep you from hitting the cage? I seen Haudenchild flip and have a belt broken and he was laying over the wheel some years back. Im just saying if it can happen, these cars prove it ususally will.

Im no expert, Just asking.
Chuck

Re: Safety Thread
 

How i may agree about the window nets thing if you DO have a full containment seat, the reason drivers have (what i want to call the cow bell effect) is besause the head rests are too far away from the helmet, when going across holes and things your head bounces back and forth always will, but if you get the halo style head rests close enough your head wont bounce back and forth like the ringer in a bell, just ask joss moffatt he was having the same problem and i helped him fix it, and he has no issues now


And didnt ryan pace have a similar incident at eldora, and kyle stuchell as well

Re: Safety Thread
 

I've heard of some guys disliking the full-containment seats because their heads beat around too much inside of them. Never heard of any vision issues with either seats or nets, though.

Re: Safety Thread
 

After reading some other posts, it looks like Motormasher is indeed either a driver, crew member, or owner-so I was wrong on that aspect of my previous post. Honestly, that makes your remarks that much more confusing...