USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

USAC had a meeting with USAC car owners and no one else was told about it. What do you think? I am open to convincing arguments, but price cannot be one of them. The shock is the most expensive part, and it is still adjustable, just not cockpit adjustable.
My thought is that the guy who hits the setup from lap one will win the race. In the past, especially under a yellow, a driver could help the car and them make a race out of it. I feel as though it will hurt the entertainment that racing provides.

I think they should leave the adjusters in the cockpit, just not connect them to anything.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by spankytoo:
USAC had a meeting with USAC car owners and no one else was told about it. What do you think? I am open to convincing arguments, but price cannot be one of them. The shock is the most expensive part, and it is still adjustable, just not cockpit adjustable.
My thought is that the guy who hits the setup from lap one will win the race. In the past, especially under a yellow, a driver could help the car and them make a race out of it. I feel as though it will hurt the entertainment that racing provides.

Can you provide a source for this, spantytoo? I looked on the USAC website at the rule book, but it has not been updated for 2018 and was last updated ten months ago, but that doesn't mean much to the average joe fan.

If this is happening/has happened, not so much what I think about it, but what do the owners think about it - their response. Were they FOR it? Did this drive it? Seems to me if they were NOT, then USAC would be smart enough to back off on the amendment to the rules. Why anger your own club?

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Nevermind. I found something:

USAC TECHNICAL UPDATE – TB2018-NAT001

NATIONAL SERIES
Date: JANUARY 1, 2018

ALL NATIONAL SERIES

Digital bleeders are allowed. Air may not be introduced to the tire. Bleeders may not be controlled remotely.
Full containment seats mandatory beginning May 1, 2018. Beginning in 2019 all seats must meat SFI 39.2 specifications.

Silver Crown Series
Tire options for events in 2018 remain the same as 2017

National Sprint
Suspension adjustments by the driver from the cockpit will not be permitted.
Front axle tethers will be mandatory beginning May 1, 2018.
Hoosier will make 94/14.0 available in RD12 compound.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
Nevermind. I found something:

USAC TECHNICAL UPDATE – TB2018-NAT001

NATIONAL SERIES
Date: JANUARY 1, 2018

ALL NATIONAL SERIES

Digital bleeders are allowed. Air may not be introduced to the tire. Bleeders may not be controlled remotely.
Full containment seats mandatory beginning May 1, 2018. Beginning in 2019 all seats must meat SFI 39.2 specifications.

Silver Crown Series
Tire options for events in 2018 remain the same as 2017

National Sprint
Suspension adjustments by the driver from the cockpit will not be permitted.
Front axle tethers will be mandatory beginning May 1, 2018.
Hoosier will make 94/14.0 available in RD12 compound.

Not happy about mandatory FC seats, I've seen a lot of concussion injuries caused by the drivers head getting, "ping-pong'd" between the headrests, some weren't even in wrecks, just rough track....

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
Nevermind. I found something:

USAC TECHNICAL UPDATE – TB2018-NAT001

NATIONAL SERIES
Date: JANUARY 1, 2018

ALL NATIONAL SERIES

Digital bleeders are allowed. Air may not be introduced to the tire. Bleeders may not be controlled remotely.
Full containment seats mandatory beginning May 1, 2018. Beginning in 2019 all seats must meat SFI 39.2 specifications.

Silver Crown Series
Tire options for events in 2018 remain the same as 2017

National Sprint
Suspension adjustments by the driver from the cockpit will not be permitted.
Front axle tethers will be mandatory beginning May 1, 2018.
Hoosier will make 94/14.0 available in RD12 compound.

FYI.... I got this off of another website, not the USAC website. The USAC website has not updated their Technical Updates as of 1/4/18. Subsequently, it has not been solidly validated.

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
Not happy about mandatory FC seats, I've seen a lot of concussion injuries caused by the drivers head getting, "ping-pong'd" between the headrests, some weren't even in wrecks, just rough track....

That's better than bouncing your head off the wall. But hey, that's just my opinion!

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by Racer1039:
That's better than bouncing your head off the wall. But hey, that's just my opinion!

I guess if the only 2 choices are a concussion from my seat without a crash or you hitting your head on the wall, then it makes perfect sense. Except there are other ways to do it that don't cause unnecessary harm, but thats a fact, not just my opinion! Concussions are no joke, lots of careers cut short by them. FC is NOT the end-all, be-all that some think they are. I'd be more worried about cockpit incursion than my head hitting the wall.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

In depth discussion of this subject on Facebook Pages of Lance Jennings, jj Hughes, Kevin Montgomery.

Input from Spridge.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

This should have been done long ago before the price of shocks skyrocketed back in the day. What you have when you leave the push off lane is what you have. That's the way it should be.

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
Not happy about mandatory FC seats, I've seen a lot of concussion injuries caused by the drivers head getting, "ping-pong'd" between the headrests, some weren't even in wrecks, just rough track....

Use the right padding. Have the headrest fit properly. Ive had concussions from my head being bounced around between a net and a bolt on headrest. Never had any issues with my FC ultrashield or Butlerbuilt. The padding Butler has been using the last 7 or 8 years is pretty nice.

The money that's saved on the adjusters can now be spent on a crew chief that can nail the set up in the pits.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by motorhead748:
The money that's saved on the adjusters can now be spent on a crew chief that can nail the set up in the pits.

Seems like that would be about experience & knowhow, which can't be bought... you think there are a bunch of setup experts sitting around waiting for a better offer? :17:

Originally Posted by revjimk:
Seems like that would be about experience & knowhow, which can't be bought... you think there are a bunch of setup experts sitting around waiting for a better offer? :17:

Experience and knowhow cost $$$
Im all for trying to cut cost as the cost is what drove myself and many others out of the sport, but racers always find somewhere else to spend money when it gets cut from another.

Like the old saying goes. "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

That’s one way to save a very small amount of money in comparison. If cost savings is the goal why don’t we equalize the $10k engines to the $40k engines? Furthermore... I agree, trash the in car adjusters... get up on the wheel Sally.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Billy Puterbaugh had an interesting take on Twitter as far as the no adjustments from the cockpit rule.

I'm summarizing here, but basically, if the crew and driver can't handle the track you've been given. You shouldn't be out there anyways. Which, in a way, I can see what he's saying.

As far as the full containment seat rule goes. 90% of drivers run them anyways and for the guys that say its dangerous and it may cause a concussion. I'd rather have a concussion than smack my head against the wall or what not and never wake up again. JMO

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Ya wanna cut the cost and even the competition, Make your qualifying tire your all night tire and get rid of the brand and compound rules.

As for getting rid of the in car adjustments, Im for it, Just wish it was done about 12 years ago.

Note also that the other rules comply with Eldora rules and go into effect right before #Letsracetwo

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Is this new rule for Sprint Cars only or does it include Midgets?

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by TKRacing:
Experience and knowhow cost $$$
Im all for trying to cut cost as the cost is what drove myself and many others out of the sport, but racers always find somewhere else to spend money when it gets cut from another.

Like the old saying goes. "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

Yep speed costs money, nonwinged sprints were never or are they now supposed to be the fastest cars. They are however one of the best vehicles ever for outright racing entertainment.
Not so wide rear tires and a harder compound. There would be no need for 30-40 thousand dollar engines and it would reduce the cost of a sprintcar a lot. Of course the drivers would complain that they cant control the cars making it dangerous never thinking about having to slow the pace some.
Maybe usac should have a crate class as a starter class. Run a support class and the headliners. After so many wins in the support class you move up or move on.
There is a sealed 602 crate engine out of a sprintcar for sale up the road from here for $5000.00. Three nights, no damage, like new with headers, carb, oilpan ect. I'm guessing the heads off a 410 cost that much a piece.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Digital bleeders allowed and SFI seats required for all National classes; no cockpit adjustments and mandatory front axle tethers for Sprint Cars in addition to the other 2 rules.
Out of curiosity, why does USAC get so much grief for stuff like this? There are several organizations out there that already have almost exactly the same rule or words to the effect that "all adjusters should be disabled or out of reach of the driver"...

...

It may be because they claim it's saving teams money, when in fact, the shock cables and a good used Shadow weight jacker are pennies in comparison to the High dollar adjustable gas shocks.

$40k engines.....

Engines too!

The best racing takes place with cars that handle like crap! If cars don’t handle well then no one can run away from the field. Also puts the mechanic more into the outcome of the race as they should be. I want to see who is the best driver, NOT the best driver who can adjust his car on the track!

Bob

This rule change had nothing to do with saving money, never was intended to do that. This will improve the ontrack product immensely!

Bob

Originally Posted by JohnnyWingo:
$40k engines.....

We won 6 races in 2016 with a 12k motor including 50k at badlands.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

I've seen the FC seats prevent or severely reduce incursion on the driver half a dozen times including last years chili bowl.

To say they haven't saved a ton more lives than have been lost is just ignorant. I watch a driver back into the wall once at not so great a clip and his chassis broke in at least six places collapsing around the seat. The seat held. He was fine.

They also hold the driver under his belts preventing submarine out from under them and being tossed around like a rag in the car, If the upper torso starts moving side to side, your shoulders don't hold the belt on you. they slip off.

Im for a driver choosing what they think is best for them. However the studies are pretty conclusive.

Originally Posted by revjimk:
Seems like that would be about experience & knowhow, which can't be bought... you think there are a bunch of setup experts sitting around waiting for a better offer? :17:

I was being a little sarcastic but in truth Everyone has a price.

More money is spent on custom painted helmets per year than shocks.......

Originally Posted by spankytoo:
USAC had a meeting with USAC car owners and no one else was told about it.

This statement isn’t true. I’m neither a car owner or driver and I knew about the meeting.

I’m certain every USAC licensed car owner was informed by USAC about the meeting. I heard about the meeting via social media - a Facebook post I think.

What more is USAC supposed to do? If you want to make certain you are made aware of these things join USAC.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights:
I guess if the only 2 choices are a concussion from my seat without a crash or you hitting your head on the wall, then it makes perfect sense. Except there are other ways to do it that don't cause unnecessary harm, but thats a fact, not just my opinion! Concussions are no joke, lots of careers cut short by them. FC is NOT the end-all, be-all that some think they are. I'd be more worried about cockpit incursion than my head hitting the wall.

First of all, I'm a firm believer that it is best to have some sort of "mechanism" to keep the driver's head within the confines of the cockpit/roll cage at all times. I have concluded that the head nets provide satisfactory protection to achieve that goal. While not necessarily "against" the full containment seats I believe their current design could pose some hazard that they are actually attempting to prevent. As I read the SFI 39.2 specification, the head restraint is supposed to accept a certain load, imposed to simulate impact, with deformation to be limited to the specification. Essentially, what I glean from this is the seat head restraint/halo is supposed to be very stiff. My issue with this stems from research by Dr. Bennet Omalu that suggests that concussions are not only caused by outward impact but that the brain, which is suspended in a viscous liquid inside the skull, can "rattle around" inside the skull, breaking through the liquid and impacting the inside of the skull causing brain injury when the head is moving and suddenly stops, as if hitting the head rest during a violent episode. The padding on both the seat and inside the helmet cushion this to some degree but I'm not sold that the full containment seat prevents what I've described from happening and, quite possibly, might promote this type of brain injury. My opinion is that the head nets offer the same protection without as sudden a stop of the head thereby lessening the possibility of internal brain injury. There are other issues with the full containment seats that I question, such as cockpit egress in both an emergency (fire) and extrication after a wreck. I like the fact that the head nets can be easily removed to allow exit. I will say, though, that I am a fan of the shoulder supports and other aspects of the seats.

It is just my opinion that I would like to see more research done on seat construction with regard to head restraint before I spend the required dollars to get a seat that complies with the specification.

Tim Simmons

Tim, you make to much sense,lol most people that are making this mandatory has never been in a Sprint car or late model before , our sport doesn't care about concussions, if they did after a flip or violent crash they would do a concession protocol, just like any sport.If no ambulance ride to hospital nothing gets done to check it out,

No issues with the Newer Butlerbuilt seats! Check out the Slidejob! I had no issues with my regular Sprint Advantage seats either, since my first New one in 2003.

You realize your slidejob butler seat isn’t SFI certified? Neither is any of the current containment seats currently being used in sprint cars?

Originally Posted by cshuman:
You realize your slidejob butler seat isn’t SFI certified? Neither is any of the current containment seats currently being used in sprint cars?

So Casey what you a saying is that ever USAC driver will either have to buy a new seat that is SFI rated or hope at a lesser expense be able to get their seat certified.

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Re: USAC outlaw all cockpit adjusters
 

Originally Posted by motorhead748:
I was being a little sarcastic but in truth Everyone has a price.

Gotcha. Sarcasm doesn't translate so well on the Net, without facial expressions or tone of voice, which is why I use the ;)

Yes