USAC's time promise
 

Kevin Miller said that he wants all USAC shows to be over by 10:30PM.

How is he going to accomplish this chore?

When USAC goes to a track with 2 or more support series, what leverage does he have to get USAC's part of the program run first?

Will USAC have control of the schedule or will the promoter allow USAC special times on the schedule?

I guess we will find out April 5 if USAC can do what they say they want to do.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

He Meant The Next Day!

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Kevin Miller....are you hating life yet? Trust me, it only gets worse. :rolling
David.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

I believe that USAC as well as most other traveling series have it in the contracts that they will be run first. That is to say their heats will be before support series heats, their semis before support series semis, and their feature is to be run first. Kevin, can you confirm that if it is so?

Re: USAC's time promise
 

10:30 would be a good goal to just start the usac feature. I think usac would need control over the support shows to make this happen. There are a lot of things that can happen at a show as we all know. As long as usac doesn't = U Stand Around Constantly:O:

Re: USAC's time promise
 

You need to instill a time limit on all races. No way should any heat race ,B-main or whatever be allowed to run to infinity. How many times has a support class basically ruined an otherwise nice night at the track by wasting everybody's time with endless yellow flags? 10 laps or 10 minutes and no longer. Even the main class can shorten their races if they exceed a set time. No more running a race to the bitter end for four cars to transfer when there are only four cars left in the race anyway because of attrition. I hate to see a guy leave with his kids at say, 10:30, because of all the needless jacking around all night All the money he spent - kids might get in free but do like to eat- plus now consider gas money and he is liable to not come back with his kids which does not help build a base for future fans. That is one reason I don't mind going to the track by myself. When I get fed up with all the messing around I can leave if I wish 'cause after a while I just don't care anymore.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

One thing I have seen at a couple of big money late model and sprint races at a track in WI is the track will invite or allow only the top 20 in points in the support series (modifieds or super stocks) to participate with the big dollar shows. It makes a difference. Generally the quality of car and driver is higher. It doesn't change the points fund for that series and the show goes off much quicker. It does reduce the back gate income for the track however.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Unfortunately, since we are in that idiotic time zone, that means most racing could be run before the lights are on. That always makes for some nice racetracks. By the way that is not USAC's fault. Maybe since Rollie is now a state employee he can work on this.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

In general, I am not a huge fan of my local track, the Columbus Motor SPeedway, however, they do one thing right. They run the special feature first. I have been to many midget and focus midget races their features were over before 10:30. I think that an early feature is possible, as long as, the track works at accomplishing this.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Flatrightrear:
You need to instill a time limit on all races. No way should any heat race ,B-main or whatever be allowed to run to infinity. How many times has a support class basically ruined an otherwise nice night at the track by wasting everybody's time with endless yellow flags? 10 laps or 10 minutes and no longer. Even the main class can shorten their races if they exceed a set time. No more running a race to the bitter end for four cars to transfer when there are only four cars left in the race anyway because of attrition. I hate to see a guy leave with his kids at say, 10:30, because of all the needless jacking around all night All the money he spent - kids might get in free but do like to eat- plus now consider gas money and he is liable to not come back with his kids which does not help build a base for future fans. That is one reason I don't mind going to the track by myself. When I get fed up with all the messing around I can leave if I wish 'cause after a while I just don't care anymore.

So this should be for the sprints also? I have seen many sprint heats and features that take 30-60 minutes to run due to yellows and reds. :rolling

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Just the fact that they are stating this as one of their goals, this year, means we are heading in the right direction. When you add what USAC and DHK Promotions are going to try accomplish, to what is already pretty good around here, it should be a great year. I'm ready to get to Eldora and see a damn race!

Jerry

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
I believe that USAC as well as most other traveling series have it in the contracts that they will be run first. That is to say their heats will be before support series heats, their semis before support series semis, and their feature is to be run first. Kevin, can you confirm that if it is so?

No way, at least not the races that Greg Staubb does. Greg is a promoters boy, he will side with the promoter because he was once one of them. Greg was in control when the "phantom rain-outs" of sprint week 06 took place.
How many of you were in Pa.( at the sprint car race that Staubb was in charge of) last year when the owners threatened to walk because the promoter put water on the track just prior to quals and they

could get no support. They could not even get anyone from USAC to come out
of the control tower and talk to them!!

With that being said, the group that USAC had in place at Manzy seemed to be easy to approach, willing to listen, and confident in their actions. The new USAC seems to be making the right moves. If the group that did ISW last year comes back this year things will go well, and baring weather, crashes, and things beyond thier control, I see them getting the job done (races completed by 10:30).

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister:
Kevin Miller....are you hating life yet? Trust me, it only gets worse. :rolling
David.

Nice pic David. I haven't had a smile that large since I had your wifes potato salad :O:

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Sure Greg sides with the promoter, drivers, car owners and Offical cause he has been each of them. The rainouts are history, different promoters and a different group at the top of USAC.
Everybody has bitched about how USAC has to change for a lot of years, Quityourbitchin USAC is starting over and still many are blasting them before their first race in the mid-west. Give them a chance. Just about every racetrack in the midwest has somebody who reads this board and they know racing has to change for all to survive. Kevin Miller has ruffled some feathers with some changes yet brought sponsorship and programs in his first 120 days.
Give them and the tracks a chance. Sure 10:30 is an easy time to kick around and everybody hopes it's true.
Let the season start and see what shakes out. Greg and Kevin are working hard together along with the Jason's and other track officals.
Season always starts out with wet days and rainouts. Once the weather clams down for summer see what happens. Tere Haute won't be a problem with only one class but manytracks need another class in the back gate. Everybody pays to race and they all what to go home early like the fans.

Let see what happens.
D.O.
:dologob:

Re: USAC's time promise
 

I've got a lot of thoughts about this subject.

First, let me say that the fans in the Midwest are already spoiled. The vast majority of races I've been to always get out at a decent hour. If you want to find out how bad it can be, just come on down to Dixie. I lost track a long time ago of the number of times that I didn't get to leave a race at 2-3am AND THE TRACK STILL HAD A FEW SUPPORT CLASSES TO RUN!!! Many times I get home in time to see the sun come up. Consistently worse offenders would be Cherokee Speedway and North Georgia. I've quit getting hotel rooms because I don't get my moneys worth when all I have time to do is sleep three hours, take a shower and leave.

That being said, I think there are several things that need to be done to fix any major, sanctioned tour race.

The easiest thing is to put time limits on the support classes, AND THEN ENFORCE THEM. Also, the suggestion to limit support class participation to the top 20 in points is a good idea. I've seen it and it works.

Example, this last weekend I attended the PASS South SLM race at Hickory. One of the support classes was the Rolling Thunder Mods (also a touring group). The mod feature was supposed to run 75 laps but they also agreed to a 45 minute time limit. After 45 minutes, only 35 laps were run (numerous accidents and one nasty fire) and they did what they said. Everyone was happy with that.

I also have taken issue with how the "old" USAC used to stick to a format when it was obvious that every car there was going to make the show. An example of this would be last years race at Salem. There were fewer than 24 cars on hand and heavy weather was on the way. In that case, why was it necessary to run meaningless B-Mains? Line them up based on heat results and run. I think everyone there would have preferred getting a complete A Main instead of what they got. The only reason the defenders could say was, "it's traditional". Well, I say heck with tradition, I'm there to see a main event. We have a "new" USAC, let's change this practice now.

For that matter, let's do away with useless time trials. MSCS has a great format and it doesn't seem to hurt car counts. Not to mention you are not burning out a perfectly good track prep with TT's.

An example of this would be the Sprint/Midget doubleheader that was run at Concord Motorsports Park a couple years ago (on a Sunday night if I remember correctly). Again, all sprints were going to make the show and line up based on TT's. That rendered the heats meaningless because nobody tried to risk their equipment in the heats. Check the record books. Daron Clayton and Mario Marrietta got heat wins with people like Dave Steele in last place. Single file, run these things for the sake of running them and waste time. That was a show where fans left long before the sprint feature and many saying they wouldn't come back (although almost everyone agreed the midget feature was excellent, at least those who stayed to see it).

Of course, that was also the race that bore witness to the worse travesty and time waster ever: Kenny Wallace MC'ing a midget wrestling match that left most in the stands speechless, booing, or just plain embarrassed. But it wasted a huge amount of time.

I've heard that USAC will allow all entrants to run heats this year. More reason to can the needless TT's.

Finally, when it comes to the order of the main event, I have only one problem with running the main event first. Fans (with the young fans who everyone says are so important to our future) can't get into most pit areas until ALL of the events are finished. Only makes sense. That would be a disaster.

The track announcers always say "Don't forget to go to the pits and meet the drivers and most of them have shirts for sale". That would be great and I remember looking forward to that when I was a kid, but, nowadays, most of the teams have loaded up and are already pulling out before the whole show is over. Bummer.

Sorry, but that's one area where the PA Posse has everyone beat. Go to their tracks and almost every team has someone behind the stands selling their shirts. No reason to go home empty handed there.

Do these things and everyone will be singing to the good time music with a Bo Diddley beat.

Good luck to Kevin and the "new" USAC with this endeavor.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan:
It is also a fairness thing, in the spirit of competition, qualifying needs to be held. It is not fair that a faster driver should be held up by being stuck behind a slower driver who is not there on merit (something you will find on a poor/slick racetrack).

One other option would be to borrow the typical kart/micro sprint format and run two rounds of heat races. The first round is lined straight up by pill draw, with the second round inverted off the draw. Then use total passing points from both rounds. This way, a driver who draws a high pill number gets to start the second race up front, plus they have the opportunity to pick up passing points from the first race.

This, of course, would take time, but so does time trials.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Flatrightrear:
You need to instill a time limit on all races. No way should any heat race ,B-main or whatever be allowed to run to infinity. How many times has a support class basically ruined an otherwise nice night at the track by wasting everybody's time with endless yellow flags? 10 laps or 10 minutes and no longer. Even the main class can shorten their races if they exceed a set time. No more running a race to the bitter end for four cars to transfer when there are only four cars left in the race anyway because of attrition. I hate to see a guy leave with his kids at say, 10:30, because of all the needless jacking around all night All the money he spent - kids might get in free but do like to eat- plus now consider gas money and he is liable to not come back with his kids which does not help build a base for future fans. That is one reason I don't mind going to the track by myself. When I get fed up with all the messing around I can leave if I wish 'cause after a while I just don't care anymore.

The timed race thing reminds me of a race at The'Burg several years ago.

Gregg Staubb was the promoter and he had the 10 minutes or 10 laps deal.

There was an E-Mod heat race where they never got in one green flag lap. The 10 minutes was up and the E-Mods were gone. Every track should do this.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by :
KOP Re: USAC's time promise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalmeister
Kevin Miller....are you hating life yet? Trust me, it only gets worse.
David.

Nice pic David. I haven't had a smile that large since I had your wifes potato salad

Hey John! How are ya? Any time you need the wife's potato salad fix just say the word. Plenty of it! Don't you just miss those Saturday pre-Manzy backyard cookouts? As far as the smile, when it's race day and you're in a race car with your name on it, how can you not smile big!! :Steer
Hugs and kisses!
David.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

I think the key to ending shows early lies with the support classes. Those drivers deserve as much as anybody to race….they paid their money too. However, if 95% of the crowd is there to see the headliner, that has to take precedent. There has to be a time limit on races in some cases. I don’t think fans should have to sit there and wait through a bunch of yellows. If you can’t get a heat race over in 10 (15 at the most) minutes, there is something wrong. You had your chance to race so it’s time to move on. The support classes don’t bother me (as long as there aren’t 3 or 4….that’s a bit much IMO…if you have 4 or 5 total classes going, that’s too much). You can’t end sprint car heats and be ready in two minutes for the C or B. Support classes to fill time is fine, it’s when they are taking and not filling time that I have a problem with.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Just to remind you all... Jason Smith was on the radio show last night on racefanradio.com for almost 2 hours willing to take questions and comments from whoever about whatever and we received a grand total of zero calls. I think he actually said when asked if he would answer anything... "bring it..." We even brought up the fact of races finishing in a timely fashion!

It amazes me that we can talk and talk and talk and complain and complain and complain but no one will take the time to call in (say who they are) and actually ask a question to someone who can answer it accurately.

By the way... he is the Senior VP of Race Operations... seems to me to be the perfect person to field all of your questions and concerns.

Thanks for all the kind words and supporting USAC Racing and I hope to see all of you at Eldora and Anderson next weekend.

rk

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Rob, I dont know about anyone else but from 6-7PM on a Wednesday night(or any other night) I am usually fairly busy and not around the computer. I would be able to listen much more frequently later in the evening. Just a thought.....

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan:
Time trials (aka qualifying-something found in every form of motorsport) are important. They give sponsors value for money. All eyes are focussed on one car at a time, that is good sponsorship exposure. It is also a fairness thing, in the spirit of competition, qualifying needs to be held. It is not fair that a faster driver should be held up by being stuck behind a slower driver who is not there on merit (something you will find on a poor/slick racetrack).

While time trials are found in every FORM of motorsport, they are not used by every SANCTION. Such as MSCS.

Heat races are qualifying, TT's are a waste of time.

Also, if I were a sponsor, I wouldn't be looking for my value during time trials. Not that many fans really pay attention. Everyone is waiting for the RACING to begin and most are getting something to eat or out in the parking lot getting lubed. The ones who are in the stand are mostly ******** to themselves and wondering "When the hell is this **** gonna be done and the real racing get's going".

A good announcer will make sure sponsors get mentioned. Bottom line, as a fan, I'm at the track to watch a race, not a commercial. If I want that, I'll stay home and watch NASCAR.

And, TT's are hardly FAIR. Maybe if you have 20 cars, but if you've got 40-50 or more, the track usually goes away and it's never the same for the last ten cars as it was for the first ten (or sometimes vice/versa). How many times have you seen quick time set by the first 2-3 cars out and then the track loses up to a half second a lap as it gets burned out? I hardly call that FAIR.

Finally, tracks will be a lot less dry/slick if the show gets moving and there are fewer unnecessary laps on it.

Concerning the call in show, I echo Racefan20, I usually don't get a chance to hit the laptop until later in the evening. This radio show sounds like a great thing, but I don't get a chance to listen live.

With today's technology, can Mr. Klepper tell how many lurking listeners are logged in at any given time. I'd be curious.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Good points Gentlemen. For the first year and a half we were on Monday nights at 9pm eastern (amount of calls were the same)and recently switched to Wednesday's at 6pm just to see if there would be any changes in listenership. We have discussed going back to the 9pm time slot on Wed after the "Dolls of Dirt" and might do that soon.

And yes... we do know how many people are listening at any given time.

Next week so far I have Tracy Hines of Tony Stewart Racing & Bobby Writesman of Earl's Performance Products booked on the show at 6pm on RaceFanRadio.com

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by D.O.:
Sure Greg sides with the promoter, drivers, car owners and Offical cause he has been each of them. The rainouts are history, different promoters and a different group at the top of USAC.
Everybody has bitched about how USAC has to change for a lot of years, Quityourbitchin USAC is starting over and still many are blasting them before their first race in the mid-west. Give them a chance. Just about every racetrack in the midwest has somebody who reads this board and they know racing has to change for all to survive. Kevin Miller has ruffled some feathers with some changes yet brought sponsorship and programs in his first 120 days.
Give them and the tracks a chance. Sure 10:30 is an easy time to kick around and everybody hopes it's true.
Let the season start and see what shakes out. Greg and Kevin are working hard together along with the Jason's and other track officals.
Season always starts out with wet days and rainouts. Once the weather clams down for summer see what happens. Tere Haute won't be a problem with only one class but manytracks need another class in the back gate. Everybody pays to race and they all what to go home early like the fans.

Let see what happens.
D.O.
:dologob:

:respect::thumbJust read this post. It is 100% right on. 'Nuff said.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Okay, now that we know Rob can tell how many listeners are on line at any time, I'm really curious.

What's the average? Since this is web-based, is it in the hundreds? Thousands?

I guess I'd be frustrated if there were a boat load of listeners logged on but nobody bothered to call.

Many years ago, I worked in radio and I know, unless it's face-to-face, a lot of people find it difficult to verbalize what's on their mind. I prefer the written medium. I can review what I've written, and, many times go back and edit (or, in some cases, completely delete).

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister:
Hey John! How are ya? Any time you need the wife's potato salad fix just say the word. Plenty of it! Don't you just miss those Saturday pre-Manzy backyard cookouts? As far as the smile, when it's race day and you're in a race car with your name on it, how can you not smile big!! :Steer
Hugs and kisses!
David.

[B] Doing good here my friend. "E" your number to me at: jlemon44@sbcglobal.net Would like to catch up a little. LOL @ those 'hugs and kisses'. Careful, I dont think we are the only two who peek in here :rolling

Re: USAC's time promise
 

[COLOR="Black"]

Originally Posted by Klepper:
Good points Gentlemen. For the first year and a half we were on Monday nights at 9pm eastern (amount of calls were the same)and recently switched to Wednesday's at 6pm just to see if there would be any changes in listenership. We have discussed going back to the 9pm time slot on Wed after the "Dolls of Dirt" and might do that soon.

And yes... we do know how many people are listening at any given time.

Next week so far I have Tracy Hines of Tony Stewart Racing & Bobby Writesman of Earl's Performance Products booked on the show at 6pm on RaceFanRadio.com

I can understand the need to bounce around a little to find the best time slot. Have to agree with racefan20, I cant get to the PC that early on a typical night. One would think that a later time would be better for someone to have spare time to sit and listen. As you mentioned, you have a way of tracking so you would know. The "zero calls" in 2 hours was interesting. [/COLOR]

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Klepper:
Good points Gentlemen. For the first year and a half we were on Monday nights at 9pm eastern (amount of calls were the same)and recently switched to Wednesday's at 6pm just to see if there would be any changes in listenership. We have discussed going back to the 9pm time slot on Wed after the "Dolls of Dirt" and might do that soon.

And yes... we do know how many people are listening at any given time.

Next week so far I have Tracy Hines of Tony Stewart Racing & Bobby Writesman of Earl's Performance Products booked on the show at 6pm on RaceFanRadio.com

Does your listener count the people that listen to the archived program?

I never listened live when the show was on at 9:00PM.(Had to rise at 4:00AM), but I do when the program is on at 6:00PM.

I would like the program to stay at 6:00PM.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Time Trials are the most unfair of any form of qualifying at a dirt track.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

I dont know the numbers on the segments that are archived. I do know they are close to or better than the live show.

rk

Re: USAC's time promise
 

When will this week be archived?

Re: USAC's time promise
 

The time limits on the supporting classes is already being done at Tri-State speedway and has worked out great there,they run the sprint feature first then the mods can take as long as they want to run there feature.Will say the time limits on the heats did put a stop to a lot of the b s that was going on among there races anyway.Would be nice to see them use the sprint bandit format to for the sprints because I would rather watch them racing instead of time trials and yes the mscs format works out great to.Waiting patiently for the 2008 season to begin and see what happens with the new usac and how things are run.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

A couple of thoughts. First, the time limit idea on preliminary races works. I first saw this done at the 1/2 mile Nazareth Speedway back in the 60's when a two division show of modifieds & novices (sportsman) would draw 125 or more cars. Heats & consis for the 90 or so sportsman would be 8 laps or 15 minutes. I saw a couple of races that had big crashes at the start and, when it couldn't be cleaned up in time, the finishing order was the starting order minus the crashees. It worked very, very well. The racers knew that if they wanted to race for their spots they had to stop all the unneeded BS. Another idea that has been brought up here and works well is limiting the support divisions to no more than two and inviting only the top 20 in points for features only. A program that consists of sprint heats, 1st support feature, sprint B main(s), 2nd support feature, sprint feature moves along very nicely.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Folks...let me be the fly in the ointment and remind everyone now that they have addressed the areas of Fire, Safety and Health with a new director how can these races possibly go past 10:30pm? :O:

I am siding with DO on this subject. So many changes going on all at once; I think we all need to let things sort themselves out and see where the chips fall. I am guessing Jason squared aren't going to let things fail on their watch. :applaud:

Re: USAC's time promise
 

If Race Fan Radio wants more listeners, they would be wise to allow us to listen to their programs away from a PC. If they distributed their shows as podcasts, I would be far more interested. That way I could listen to them on my way to work, in line at the bank, while shopping.....

I would love to listen to several of their programs.... But I have no desire to be sitting in front of a computer to listen.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by mikew:
If Race Fan Radio wants more listeners, they would be wise to allow us to listen to their programs away from a PC. If they distributed their shows as podcasts, I would be far more interested. That way I could listen to them on my way to work, in line at the bank, while shopping.....

I would love to listen to several of their programs.... But I have no desire to be sitting in front of a computer to listen.

I bought a FM transmitter from C.Crane. It plugs into my computer speakers and broadcasts the program to any radio in the house. Just find an empty channel to tune to and it is like you are listening on real radio

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Big-time auto racing qualifies. Drawing is fine if you want to watch a local sprint car show or something, but when the best guys are there and a national championship is on the line, I want to see those guys qualify. And the funny thing about it is that the good guys step up. And when they don't, they acknowledge that they screwed up.

I often times end up seriously disappointed with draw shows, but the qualifying shows always give you a good product when there are enough cars. Agreed that those meaningless heat races can be bad, but the best thing about a USAC show is the fully-inverted heat race where only four cars transfer!

Re: USAC's time promise
 

I also agree with DO. Lets give USAC a chance.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
Big-time auto racing qualifies. Drawing is fine if you want to watch a local sprint car show or something, but when the best guys are there and a national championship is on the line, I want to see those guys qualify. And the funny thing about it is that the good guys step up. And when they don't, they acknowledge that they screwed up.

I often times end up seriously disappointed with draw shows, but the qualifying shows always give you a good product when there are enough cars. Agreed that those meaningless heat races can be bad, but the best thing about a USAC show is the fully-inverted heat race where only four cars transfer!

Getting around a lot more than I do. I respect your view. I don't necessarly agree with it. Expecially when it's geared to be EXCLUSIVE instead of INCLUSIVE. Probably 3/4 of the non wing tracks don't qualify. So a guy trys to make a USAC show and is stuck in a Non qualifiers right off the bat that is overcrowded with not enough laps.

The Midget week format was far more exciting to me than a regular show. Granted Qualifying can be fun to watch but I feel it just ruins a track for the rest of the night with all cars running the same groove (Wherevers fastest)

Where the Midget week and (Chili Bowl format) is more exciting to me is that fourth place isn't good enough. They go for third, second or the win, Why? Because every spot has meaning, Not just the top four. You want to keep it fair for the ones who follow the series, Up the provisionals a few but still base it on points.

It's the racers responsibility to get themselves into the feature, Not the tracks, not the sanctioning body or the format. That being said, I feel all these elements should be the fair for everybody.

Personally I love showing up to some of these draw series and seeing 50-60-88 sprint cars. Several of which are always capable (IN A RACE) yet I get the feeling say Why Bother? when it comes to USAC due to the format.

With Transponders, A good puter program and time limits and Limits on number of support classes. You could see 60 car USAC races with 5-6 ten lap heats, two consis and a feature and be done by 10:30 easy. Don't believe me. There were a few nights burg go the whole program in by 1000 and once by 9"30 last year with 45 sprinters, 40+ mods and another support class.

Re: USAC's time promise
 

If the numbers are more than 1 then it's good for racing.
:dologob: