Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in '19
 

I am still puzzled about running wing cars in non-wing country. Seems like playing to All Stars and WoO. So much for developing a regional feeder system.

It’s still a feeder system potentially into local non wing sprints. In fact there’s some 305s that take the wing off and run local shows already. As someone who has looked at this class for my son, my complaint is I wish all Indiana tracks had gotten together and run the same engine (305 or 602). Having what appears to be the south as 305 and north as 602 just reduces the possibilities.

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

Really? Take a look at what happened at Bloomington when they brought in the racesavers. The racesavers now have a pretty good field of cars. The problem is that more 410 drivers have moved back to the racesavers than racesaver drivers have moved to 410's. And at least one(Marvel) used it as a stepping stone to winged racing. Now if they were wingless 305/602's then I might agree but in this example it resulted in less cars in the main class than before.

Notice I said potentially.....my reply was in response to the fact it was a wing class not being a feeder into non wing sprints, and Indiana being “non wing country”. It still has that potential. Perhaps due to lower costs it also has the potential of guys moving from 410 to 305. Those are two seperate things.

The nonwing 602's have taken off big in Wisconsin which is wing country. Makes no sense to run these with wings in nonwing country of Indiana. Then again, a lot of modern day racing doesn't make sense to me so I guess it fits right in.

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

First bad idea of 2019. Mandatory tire rules equal to the 410's with 305 purse to try to pay for them.

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

It's Gaerte country, what do you expect?

The whole cost of racing could be fixed with a compression limit and a hard RR. But lets make ten classes of mostly dependent on one supplier and few tracks and dilute the whole scene.

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

Jerry Gappens, promoter of Gas City, received a call last night asking if he would be interested in hosting a couple Pro Sprint races in 2019 as they are trying to race at more tracks. If you look at his schedule this year, he had 12 different classes of cars compete throughout the season, trying to bring a diversified schedule (non-wings 410s and and modifieds as anchor classes plus rotating super streets, thunder cars, compacts, D2 midgets, open midgets, winged outlaw 600cc Micros, TQs, etc.) to his facility, which has worked pretty well. His Great Lake Super Sprints (GLSS), ran in conjunction with his weekly 410 non-wing sprints and did well, drawing 37 cars. Give him credit, he didn't run the same four divisions every week.

However, as this thread points out, there is a need to try to make non-wing sprints more affordable for competitors and promoters. Steve Sinclair and his NRA non-wing crate motor cars are enjoying great car counts and doing a good job with this up in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan. Keith Ford found a niche for low-cost sprint car racing at Paragon as well. Engine costs are probably the number one reason so many sprint cars are sitting idle in garages and barns around the state!

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

To a certain extent I agree with you Jerry but just be careful you dont destroy your most popular class in the process. From a few grandstand pictures I saw the crowd was significantly down on the nights that Bloomington used the Racesavers as the top class. If you look at the points for just this season there are 5 drivers who have driven 410's in the past that have moved back to Racesavers. If you go back before this year I'm sure I could find a few more. Its a slippery slope be careful.

I still cannot understand why the Crate class was created here when the Racesavers were already established. So now instead of having ONE limited engine format for winged cars we have two... Great idea, divide the teams... Bail on the crates and go to Racesaver rules! There are many of us who run Racesaver that are in Indy or North. What is the biggest car count for the Pro Sprints this year? I have never saw more than 10.

Bob

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

I don't get the idea of putting a lower powered engine in a sprint car and then putting wings on them which requires more power to pull them down the straights. As another poster said, take a look at the non-wing class they started at Wilmot. Car counts getting near 40 for some races.

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

I do not know anything about crate or racesaver but can anyone tell me the cubic inch displacement in the non wing USAC sprint cars during the Larry & Gary Show and Thunder series eras? I thought it was less than today's non wing powerplants. If they were smaller displacement, the cars were exciting, a challenge to drive, car counts in USAC and at the weekly sprint tracks in the midwest were strong, not to mention the packed grandstands.

They were a 305ci limit till the early 80’s if I am correct.

Bob

We already have a strong non wing contingent here. Why add another class that looks the same. I am a total convert, 5 years ago I hated wings. Now I like them as much as non wing. The 305 Racesaver races have been damn good. I implore fans to put their biases to the side and see the races for what they are worth. Good racing is good racing, doesn’t matter if it is wings, no wings, micros, Mods, Sprints, bombers, etc...

Bob

Because the 602 are part of the world racing group which is ump 305 is part of IMCA which is not in the Midwest

Looks like a high car count of 10 for the year for the Pro Sprints at Plymouth. As low as 5 from what I saw on their FB page.

Bob

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

They were 305 in the 60's and then USAC went to 350 before going to 410....can't remember the years the cubic inch limit was raised.

Re: Plymouth, Gas City, & Hartford to run 602 Pro Sprints in
 

The non-wing does seem strong on the surface, however, it still needs a viable feeder class. I recently looked at another post on here that compared wing/non-wing monies won. Truly depressing. Non-wing racing needs to establish its identity as an alternative to wing to a broader fan base. The casual fan must be educated that Sprint cars are not solely winged. The introduction of budget class wing racing into non-wing strongholds is potentially a subtle way to retard the growth of non-wing racing.

How many slices can you get out of a piece of pie?

Speaking from experience here on the left coast. If you are a 410 fan, this is not a good idea.

How many feeder classes are needed? Minis, micros, tq’s, D2, Kenyon midgets, just off the top of my head. It’s stupid in my opinion. There’s too many now and no one works together.