Re: Tire Dopers
 

In my earlier post, I suggested the teams bring their Durometer to the track with them and check it against the tracks Durometer at sign in.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

I wonder if the three teams/owners that publicly stated on social media that they were done with USAC will show up at the owners meeting Monday and have a proposal for a more reliable, more repeatable, tire testing solution than current or if anyone will. I've seen lots of accusations, theories and hypotheses on here, but this solution (proposed by a couple of people/posters) is the only one I've seen. While good, it will require a great deal of management to insure that the testing device is correctly and accurately calibrated.

Did USAC mishandle the communications on this issue?? IMO, ABSOLUTELY!! BUT, penalizing teams without 100% confidence in the test results would be a miscarriage of justice, again, IMO. And it would have likely resulted in a similar amount of bad feelings and conspiracy theories.

I am not a car owner, driver or official, and never have been. I am a lifelong FAN of sprint car racing, and I enjoy watching the best drivers compete in the best cars on a variety of surfaces on an equal footing. To me that is what racing is about.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Why not make tire doping legal? Why is it illegal now? Mark the right rear you start the night with and check that you used that same one all night. Dope it all you want. If it's legal, everyone will know how to dope and why to dope tires. I understand traction control being illegal. Thousands of dollars to buy, mega thousands of dollar motors. What does a can of tire dope cost? $25.00 a gallon? Half gallon? Getting a right rear from Hoosier last year was like pulling teeth. I called and even went to Brownsburg...I need a right rear...who are you?...what's your name?...(never heard of you) no tires...don't know when we'll get any...your series mandates them?...too bad...call around...no tires for you. If I knew how to dope a tire and get longer life, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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If USAC is having a sprint car race if at all possible I will be there

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when hoosier makes a batch of tires do they send the chemical make up of each batch to the sanctioning bodies? if they do, i would think that info is sent to the lab and compared to the mass spectrometer readings of the samples being tested. now if the samples have the same chemical make up of the batch sample all should be good. the problem is that if someone knows what chemical hoosier might use for rubber softener and use that same chemical to treat the tires, in that case the mass spectrometer will pick up that there is too high of percentage of that chemical in the sample compared to the batch sample. but the teams can argue that there are no foreign chemicals in the tire. i would think that too much of a chemical in the tire would be just as bad as a foreign chemical. just a theory.

Ask any go kart racer what allowing prep did to the sport. Honestly it’s more expensive than traction control. It’s not a 1 time purchase. You will need different preps for different tracks. Different preps for track conditions. You’ll need more tires(you cant just slap dope on at the track it has to cure). I personally know a few guys who make prep. As far as price I’ve heard $500 a gallon. But I can’t with certainty say that’s accurate. But it would be no different than tires. It would be a monopoly where they could charge whatever outrageous price they wanted and you wouldn’t be able to compete without it. The other thing is I know one preper literally takes the whole tire to treat it. It’s not as simple as just rolling it the outside of the tire anymore.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

So how did the one tire that was purchased at the track cure?????????? And supposedly in the exact same way with no known doping agent as the three that weren't purchased at the track.

Handled not timely and out front. Yes but most of the evidence is toward a lab contamination or mistake

Pretty sure they was a driver a few years back that got dqed on a tire bought at the track. Ask usac not me. But he did get dqed, and to this day hasn’t be reinstated because he refuses to pay the fine. Also, we’re you there to confirm the tire in question was purchased at the track? Orrrrr just more hearsay?

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The track comment comes from someone who said they bought their tire at the track. I did not see it. I don't know for a fact it's true

lol just because you bought a tire at the track doesn't necessarily mean ,that's the one you ran, you just bought it to cover your ass, in case you got caught, I mean you have a receipt that you purchased a tire, and as far as someone saying well why didn't the 2 car team both fail, well pretty simple, I'd both failed them you would look even more quilty, this is another defense they can claim,one more thing if this is the same lab that usac has used in the past think Ruble and Leary are owed some $ just adding my .02 worth

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Does Charles have different standards to live up to here than you have? You are criticizing him for the same thing you are doing.
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Re: Tire Dopers
 

We're just fans who needs a race and IMHO the more racers the better :)

As I see it, there are a few options, none of which the promoters will like, but it looks like change it, or it's just gonna go away, which is not what anyone wants, but, it's the same old thing, follow the money. My unabashed thought is to go back to an open tire rule, open it up to the people who still make real racing tires, and leter rip tater chip, you'll probably have a lot more happiness on at least 2 sides, and so what if the dopers and promoters are unhappy, they just might get happy when they see more happy people in the facilities, that's my solution, and I'm sticking to it 😉.

I wonder if multiple samples were taken from Ruble and Leary's tire?

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Im all for opening up competition between brands, always have been.

But that in no way stops doping. Think it should be like LM racing three hardness choices..

Lets even have a pre feature draw for number of laps 30-35-40 laps.

The 410 rule has driven the price of motors from say 20k to 70k . If someone put in a twin turbo ecotech and beat em with a 20k motor. Id be extatic. but the rules don't allow it. Just like the twin hyabusa midget a few years back. half the cost. the same or better torque and horsepower won races, was limited then outlawed.

You got one brand, One hardness unless the harder is approved. Wouldn't surprise me if someone is looking for a edge but like I said before, Knowing the podium gets tested, Why would you?

Re: Tire Dopers
 

I'm not in anyway saying do away with doping, it's outa hand and has been, but open up the tires to let everyone make their choice, General?, of course AR, and Hoosier, and whom ever makes a genuine RACE tire, let em dope, but not let them run off the guys who entertain us the most, the doppers will get the picture, maybe, it is costing them money too, and when the well runs dry, no fans, no payout, no racing, how much will it all have been worth, nada, zip, gone, no racing, no buyers, Hornets is where it's at! No, don't even try to stop it, given other choices, it'll die on the vine. JMHO opinion, from many years of duty.

My source on that is actually a sprint car owner who inquired about prep from known prepper. I’m just saying I don’t know for sure because I didn’t hear it out of his mouth(the actual prep guy). I also made it known it was hearsay. As stated was Charles at the track to confirm the tire was bought that night? No, did he say it without a doubt that tire was purchased at the track? Yes. How does he know?

So far the only party I’ve seen willing to prove their case is the sanction body. The rest is pure conjecture. Let’s see what happens tomorrow.

Whether or not you think the sanctioning body proved it's case, this isn't a court of law. The appearance of impropriety is enough to do damage to a sanctioning body. Normally USAC can do USAC, and no harm no foul, no one else is paying real money for NW sprints. In a year that sees a rival series starting up, it may spell doom for USAC. Teams that are not in the "clique" may just save there equipment to run with the extreme series. In 2022, the ability to get ahold of tires is a question mark, and the prices are outrageous. So USAC may have taken care of "their" guys, but everyone else may stay away. I have seen flexible rule books kill divisions before. I have also seen tracks that strictly enforce their rules grow classes dramatically.

Rhody I agree about adhering to the rules. But so what you’re saying is even if it’s proven that the tires needed more testing, and that the initial test was not comprehensive enough, you’re still not going to believe them? Kinda reminds me of some other things going on in the country

They just reversed North Carolina’s victory over Duke in last nights NCAA Final Four semi-final basketball game.

They found tennis shoe-prep on a couple of the North Carolina player’s shoes.

I thought it was time to lightened it up a little 😁

The problem is, there is no way to prove the tires needed more testing. All 4 samples could have been treated in the same fashion. Also, the original story was that 6 were tested and 4 failed, now the story is morphing into all of them failed. So the answer is, enforce the rules as written, and come up with a contingency plan for second sets of samples if you believe you have a genuine issue. Yes teams that got busted lose money and are angry, but a new policy is put in place to solve the problem. Or you can do what was done, and this leaves people wondering if it is all above board, or did shenanigans occur. That suspicion of shenanigans will never go away.

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We likely won't know the outcome of mondays meeting until the next USAC sprint race, Unless said "Pissed" teams mention it the same way they did their displeasure. Until then, Whoever shows up will be there"

I gave up twitter a long time ago and personally waiting for a better option than FB.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Both of their tires had known softening agents from the test. Leary paid the fine and accepted the suspension like a man and a professional. Kudos to him and his team. You don't hear any complaints or whining from him. The other team not so much.

The case with these new four are different than Ruble and Leary.

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Its true, both were found to have doping compound in the tires, neither appealed the findings and to my knowledge, never even denied it.

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And who really cares if Steve Kinser was there. He left! He decided multiple times the WoO sucked. Then came back. Whether he is good or not is irrelevant. If you leave for greener pastures then so be it. This bit about Kinser wasn’t there so it didn’t count is all bs. So sick of this tired stupid argument. If the WoO was so great why did he leave. If he was so much better than WoO why didn’t USA or NST out live the WoO??? I know I’m on my own island with this feeling, the fact is he left because he felt he was bigger and better. The actual facts were he wasn’t. WoO is still here the others aren’t.

Maybe this challenge by extreme will turn out the same way. Usac will prevail and the other series will fold who knows. I know that whatever event I choose to attend, I’ll worry about who is on the track that nite, not who chose greener pastures.

Obviously some on this board fully back Usac and all that they say. It’s also obvious some on this board have questions about Usac and whats going on. This situation nor this discussion should surprise anyone after Extreme decided to enter the ring. Different groups handling business different ways. Clearly it’s a challenge to Usac as they have been the only game in town for forever. If people/teams choose to move on due to lack of trust then so be it. Usac chose not to release team info and in the court of public opinion that was a mistake. They are handling their business their way and teams will decide what’s best for them. A new series is amongst us and two/three of the top teams from last year left and went wing racing this year, all for greener pastures. Based on that there is some dissension in the ranks. It appears Usac has issues with trust by the teams competing and now with other avenues to pursue, loyalty is not as strong. The fan base sees this as well and can make changes too. I didn’t think a big issue would occur until late June when the schedules have a conflict, but here we are. I don’t think this will be cleared up in a hurry either.

[QUOTE=sp6967;550530]when hoosier makes a batch of tires do they send the chemical make up of each batch to the sanctioning bodies? if they do, i would think that info is sent to the lab and compared to the mass spectrometer readings of the samples being tested. now if the samples have the same chemical make up of the batch sample all should be good. the problem is that if someone knows what chemical hoosier might use for rubber softener and use that same chemical to treat the tires, in that case the mass spectrometer will pick up that there is too high of percentage of that chemical in the sample compared to the batch sample. but the teams can argue that there are no foreign chemicals in the tire. i would think that too much of a chemical in the tire would be just as bad as a foreign chemical. just a theory.[/QUOT

[quote=sprint38racer;550567][QUOTE=sp6967;550530]when hoosier makes a batch of tires do they send the chemical make up of each batch to the sanctioning bodies? if they do, i would think that info is sent to the lab and compared to the mass spectrometer readings of the samples being tested. now if the samples have the same chemical make up of the batch sample all should be good. the problem is that if someone knows what chemical hoosier might use for rubber softener and use that same chemical to treat the tires, in that case the mass spectrometer will pick up that there is too high of percentage of that chemical in the sample compared to the batch sample. but the teams can argue that there are no foreign chemicals in the tire. i would think that too much of a chemical in the tire would be just as bad as a foreign chemical. just a theory.[/QUOT




My apoligies to followers and to USAC. The information on the chemical I spoke of is incorrect.

Just a thought. Teams leaving to run wings is irrelevant to this particular situation. KT and Big Daddy were always at the front of USAC races anyway, before this conflict. I might be off base, but it seems to me they’re going after the illusion of more money with wings, in spite of the additional expense, or a new challenge

Not a technical guy by any means, but can throw out an occasional what if. What if a team used doped tires for qualifying and heat races to improve their starting position for the feature, and then used a legal tire during feature. They would never be caught.

So... what is the difference in cost to run top 5 Usac and top 5 All Star?

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Its real simply buy the right rear and left rear tires at the track,
End of story
Stops everything

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Buying tires at the track might seem like a good idea, until you realize half the field is running on used tires until the feature. You weed out any low budget team making them buy them at the track

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There have been times in recent years that USAC has teched tires at the scales after qualifying. The most notable night this happened was the night Brackett's tire failed after he set quick time.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Not if teams and people in general are tiring of Usac and it’s direction. Part of this discussion has included why are so many people anti Usac. Might just be a coincidence they left to run wings this year it might not.

The biggest thing that would stop would be the entire show. RR =$285 LR=$317…at a minimum you’d need 1 rr & 2lr… how many teams can afford $900+ per night for tires?

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Is this the longest discussion in IOW history???? :20:

So teams and drivers leave USAC to run for more money and now they leave to run for less money. I think it’s time for a change in leadership starting at the top.

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Not even close

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What was the longest? :47: