Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Originally Posted by cecil98:
They had several races that were well attended (e.g. KY 65K +,Texas 100k+, Chicago 70K+ etc) and thus, created a solid foundation for the series to build on. If Tony had stuck to his guns (and "no lease" formula), I believe the series would have caught on.

I would agree with that if Randy Bernard had been in charge then. TG's idea was good, but never had a prayer with him carring it out. That's not a bash, it's fact. TG just is not a marketing type. He didn't know how to promote the series or put the right person in place to do so. So the series had no choice but to take money and "revert" back to what it was at the time of the split. If the series had stayed as it was, it would have folded (taking out TG's deep pockets which were eventually taken away from him). Good ideas don't work if you don't know how to execute them, TG does not have those skills. Bernard does and could have made it work, but it's now too late to go all ovals.

I personally liked the IRL the first few years. Nice to see "our" guys move up. However, I knew many people that didn't like it because it was a "bunch of no names" (their term not mine). So it's all in how you look at things. I would like an all oval series personally, but it didn't sell with TG at the helm. I like IndyCar now too. Not exactly what I would draw up totally (ride buyers would be outlawed....don't need them...I would make it 80/20 oval/road racing). RB's got it going in the right direction. I just hope TG stays out of the way.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Well Superduke, you have really caused a stir with this post! :2:
The topic has gone off course, but it's still about the "bozo's" as well.... I understand where you and the dirtheads are coming from because I used to feel the same way you do. But I started to watch these other forms of racing, and began to admire these other drivers, no matter where they were from. All racing is hard because you are competing against others, some are just more difficult(relative term) than others.
I do believe, that the era/track/type/surface that a person LEARNS about racing with, is the one that they will ALWAYS refer to as the "golden age". I call it thier formative years.
It's the same way in stock cars, when people are always saying, "Aww these kids today can't compare to Fireball, or Curtis, or the Flocks or fill in the blank....Everything in life changes, and when looking back to "the good ole days" NOTHING" looks as good. For most people that is....
Sure as a sprint/midget driver, I miss the early IRL days, but that too has changed, so we move on...And enjoy good, hard road racing and oval racing with IndyCar...

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by sc96:
I was talking to someone who works very close to one of the top IRL teams.

So that makes this guy an "expert"?

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Rhody:
I don't know about you, but I think it's pretty sad when a guy can make it to the big time without being brave enough to race what hundreds of us strap into every week across the country. I doubt you would find a single sprint car driver who wouldn't mash the gas in an Indy car given the chance. (Heck they only have 650 hp, that puts them on par with 360's- and they have wings!)

You guys just show that you don't know or dont care to know how hard it is to run a place like the Speedway, and do it good. And how brave one must be.
As far as the 650hp, you dont remember when CART was running 900+hp.
Also, its a lot different with 650 on a 5/8 mile long straightaway with a tight turn at the end of it, and 800 on a 1/4 or 1/2 mile. There is a reason they keep trying to slow the IndyCars down....

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by backitin:
The 50's-70's might be gone, but that doesnt mean the racing wasnt better then.

My point exactly!

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by mikew:
Part of the issue is that drivers from other countries recognize at an early age that if they want to get into F1, GP2, GP3, F3 or even in to the lower tier formula feeder ladders, they will need sponsorship, so they are networking, developing sponsors and hiring agents much earlier in their careers than many of their US counterparts. So when their career path to F1 fizzles out, they still may have sponsorship dollars to take elsewhere.

The other part of this problem is that the feeder ladders in US racing have been a mess, and the competition in European ladders is much higher. This allows for the perception that somebody who has vetted themselves in the European ladders has learned more racecraft than somebody who came up through the US ladders.

One other reason that some of these foreign drivers get the nod is the perception that you can teach a road course driver how to tackle ovals much easier than you can teach an oval driver how to tackle road courses.

The current management of the IndyCar Series is trying to do something about that though. Last year they brought Star Mazda and USF2000 on as part of the official IndyCar ladder along with Indy Lights. They have established scholarships for each ladder series champion driver to help them move on to the next rung. They have set up some interesting side deals like providing a scholarship for the USAC champion to run all the ovals in Lights. They have also established a "combine" where ladder team owners and IndyCar drivers can evaluate up and coming talent in USF2000 cars. This "combine" will draw from series and event champions from across the karting world, as well as USAC D1 midgets.

Yeah, their current marketing spin is that they have the "best drivers on the planet".... I don't believe that for one second. Yeah, they have some good drivers, but the best in the world are in F1 and NASCAR.... because that is where you get paid what you are worth. But at least they are making moves in their ladder series to try and make their ladders a legitimate feeder into IndyCar and maybe help them over time earn the title "best drivers on the planet".

Good post, but I do believe that the top drivers in IndyCar are among the "best". Dario, Scott, Helio, Briscoe, Power, Kanaan. I believe that Hunter-Reay is right there, as is Graham. And now we have Simona!!! :8:

---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by predator:
instead of trying to point out everything thats wrong with something and why you want nothing to do with it, why not use those 5 minutes to go on you-tube and look up last years race from chicago

nice!

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Originally Posted by Puppy:
Well Superduke, you have really caused a stir with this post! :2:
The topic has gone off course, but it's still about the "bozo's" as well.... I understand where you and the dirtheads are coming from because I used to feel the same way you do. But I started to watch these other forms of racing, and began to admire these other drivers, no matter where they were from. All racing is hard because you are competing against others, some are just more difficult(relative term) than others.
I do believe, that the era/track/type/surface that a person LEARNS about racing with, is the one that they will ALWAYS refer to as the "golden age". I call it thier formative years.
It's the same way in stock cars, when people are always saying, "Aww these kids today can't compare to Fireball, or Curtis, or the Flocks or fill in the blank....Everything in life changes, and when looking back to "the good ole days" NOTHING" looks as good. For most people that is....
Sure as a sprint/midget driver, I miss the early IRL days, but that too has changed, so we move on...And enjoy good, hard road racing and oval racing with IndyCar...

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------



So that makes this guy an "expert"?

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------
YES HE IS and no im not going to throw him under the bus to prove a point by dropping his name. But he is one of the top enginers in the business and has a indy 500 win to back it up. SO YES I THINK HE KNOWS A LITTLE ABOUT INDY CARS, AND I WOULD CALL HIM AN EXPERT IN THE INDY CAR BUSINESS


You guys just show that you don't know or dont care to know how hard it is to run a place like the Speedway, and do it good. And how brave one must be.
As far as the 650hp, you dont remember when CART was running 900+hp.
Also, its a lot different with 650 on a 5/8 mile long straightaway with a tight turn at the end of it, and 800 on a 1/4 or 1/2 mile. There is a reason they keep trying to slow the IndyCars down....

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------



My point exactly!

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------



Good post, but I do believe that the top drivers in IndyCar are among the "best". Dario, Scott, Helio, Briscoe, Power, Kanaan. I believe that Hunter-Reay is right there, as is Graham. And now we have Simona!!! :8:

---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------



nice!

YES he is an expert he has a indy 500 win as an engineer to back it up. SO my guess would be he has the knowledge to know what he is talking about.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

I've been going to races for right at 39 years. I've seen anything from slot cars, to NHRA, to airplanes, (and everything in between damn near) on permanent and tempory tracks, indoors and out, in the air on dirt pavement and on concrete floors covered with Coke syrup, on road courses- in straight lines- and on ovals of various sizes, with and without some kind of aerodynamic assistance.

I'm not a know it all, but you aren't going to BS me too easily.

-I started racing karts in 1977 at the ripe ol' age of 5. This was before the age of the full bodies, really wide/soft tires, and the crazy offset karts of today. My first kart had a little 'triangle' shaped nerf bar, and a short front bumper...there was no knocking and banging or pushing people out of the way, like happens now. I had to learn/was taught, how to race, not drive a bulldozer.

I ran on dirt mostly, but I've also run indoors, and on temporary street courses.

Matter of fact, the first time I ran on a street course, there was still clay on the kart from the night before....I was 11 at that time.

Dirt was a blast, especially when it was wet and tacky, but I could still get around on a slick track just the same.

Indoors was awesome....stand on the gas and go fast. Kinda weird seeing that tall wall beside you while running in the Ft. Wayne Coliseum, and at Marion, OH.

The street course was pretty cool also. Was odd turning left and right, and it took a while to get used to 'hitting the apex' and making a big wide dive into a turn, but once I learned where to back off, and then stomp it right away and drive through the corner, it was sweet.

For me, running on a road course was fun, but watching a road race, either on a permanent or temporary course, SUCKS, and is boring to me.

Was/am I the best to ever sit in a kart....no, but I could hold my own.

Kart races used to be interesting as hell, now they are boring 'follow the leader' parades.

Jeff Gordon is about 6 months older than me, and when he showed up in Ohio, my dad was constantly hearing, 'Dad, when are we gonna' buy a sprint car?' It never happened....lack of $$$$$$$$

I raced against, and am friends with, several of the guys you now see in midgets, sprint cars, modifieds, and late models in western Ohio/eastern Indiana....some of them have been track champions, and some have been touring series champions, multiple times.

If you ask any of us, we just wanted to race. We were not thinking of hiring an agent at 12 years old. We believed if we raced clean and hard, and won a lot of races, that people would notice, and ask us to drive for them, and we would move up....that's how it used to be.

But that has changed....and that is wrong.

Look at guys like Jack Hewitt and Steve Kinser...why didn't they have several INDY starts?

Rich Vogler could run the wheels off of anything he sat in. Why didn't he ever get a ride in the top cars of the day?

This isn't limited to just sprint car drivers. Where are the supermodified drivers at INDY? Why didn't Bently Warren have a bunch of starts at INDY? Billy Vukovich III was there, but we lost him.........

INDY isn't that big of a deal to me anymore. Oh, I'm still in awe of the place and it's hallowed ground, everytime I'm there. But the race itself is a joke. The crap starts at the start of the race...they can't get in a row of 3, let alone 11 rows of 3.....yet the night before at Anderson, those guys in the Little 500 pull it off, and then put on one hell of a race!!

Indy cars have people I've never heard of, and don't care about. Where did they come from (don't know), who did they beat (don't know), what big race/races did they win (don't know), did I ever see them 'coming up' (nope) = DON'T CARE

By the time a person gets to INDY, they should be a household name to a race fan........not true anymore.