Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by Kart#51:
I'll ask this question. Was the same lab used by WRG and USAC for the initial positive tests? If that is the case, and this lab is "delinquent" in their process wouldn't you think the Late Model and Big Block guys getting tested by WRG group have already screamed and said this lab is invalid? Maybe this lab is a better lab and more sophisticated at testing? Maybe they caught something that others have yet to catch? Lets remember, Late Models are the Kings of tire prep in the mainstream dirt racing world.

Also, my other question, is that if there were 4 positive samples and they took 6 samples(top three each night is my understanding) what happened to the two that didn't test positive by the "invalid" lab? Was their tire prepped less or just a different prep or was it untreated? There in lies the question, keep in mind if 6 samples were taken not all failed, which makes this whole situation more shady vs. just a bad testing lab.

There was someone earlier in this thread that said their tire passed whether it was at Ocala or Volusia is irrelevant if the same initial lab was used, which means there are tires that are meeting the spec baseline. I"m sure Messeraull and Leary were both tested from Volusia and neither of them showed a positive test. Again, if the same lab was used and the 4 positives were invalid then wouldn't all tires tested with the lab be positive?

Just using logic, :deadhorse:

This feel like the Ray Lewis scenario. All evidence points to a guilty verdict and he was acquitted so I guess it doesn't matter, right?

At Bubba there were 5 cars among the top 3 for the 3 nights.

Some of the samples were weeks later from the race shops of the teams involved.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Could USAC require team to purchase (new tire (s) ) at track, be stamped and record serial numbers. (Karts do this at big events). the hardness could be checked during the night (takes seconds) and compared to competitors. In today's age, things like shouldn'd happen in a National Series. When it's a NOS series and NOS driver involved, doesn't look good. I don't know the details, but if Kunz and other teams are willing to not run for a championship now, that says something.

Nobody wants to race in a series when someone get's caught cheating and nothing happens. (fuel, motor and tires should never be messed with). Maybe the teams were not cheating, I don't know. At a local track in socal, a guy that won every week tires tested altered, he got a vacation for year, said he would never race there again, guess what he races there now. He swore it must of been what he cleaned the tires..

My $.02 fix, buy tires at track, if not, put in the rules, tires only washed with soap and water, check hardness after main event and qualifying, and random times. No shiny stuff on tires, even armour all, etc.

If I’m not mistaken USAC is having an open meeting to prove their point. I’m sure all the accuser’s of foul play will be there

Exactly, this and the lack of information presented from the beginning are what raised the eyebrows. They could not test the same samples 4 different times and consider that a fair test. It’s also not fair to go back at a later date and request more samples from the teams. This is, and will remain a dark cloud. Frankly the only way to truly know is to test every car in the A-main. No series will pay for those test. What if of all the cars n the field only those 4 test came back bad. Would the tune be different then. What if they did dq them and awarded say 4th place the win. After 2 weeks you can’t ask to check the tires he had in at Ocala so what if he was illegal. The simple fix is a durometer on all lr and rr tires before qualifying, heats, and features. Then take samples from the top 10 after each feature and send off the top 3. If you get back bad results you already have samples from the next guy in line to send off for testing. Unfortunately tires can’t be a grey area. It has to be black and white. Doesn’t matter if the lab screwed the pooch or not. Every tire went to the same lab so something was different. If the lab isn’t reputable get a new lab and stick with them. All of f this should be common knowledge. The crickets that surrounded this is what raised the eyebrows.

Originally Posted by flagboy55:
If I’m not mistaken USAC is having an open meeting to prove their point. I’m sure all the accuser’s of foul play will be there

They are having an “owners meeting” not open

It's seems to me the post Levi era is not off to a great start.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by Hamby454:
They are having an “owners meeting” not open

Good, so know nothings like me aren't muddying the water.

The thing that bothers me most about the whole thing is you hear for years and from many teams, We want to race for more purse. Well by the rush to judgement and for whatever reason they chose to do that And they can, their car, their $$$ behind it. It jeopardizes most of the higher purse races out there today.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

I have read every commit, some twice.. in my "opinion" ... yes we all got them... here are my tire rules for midget, 600's and sprint car series

7.1 Tires: Any tire or manufacture/brand is allowed, must DUROMOTOR RR-45 before and after race...there will be a 10 minute cool down period if tire punches below 45. If either LR or RR is are below by just 1 point you are DQed. No Sample will be taken and all rear tires will be checked before every race, in the event of qualifying they will be checked before and after.

I am not a fan of doping AT ALL, but I do understand especially when a smaller team needs to treat an old tire or a hand me down... when we (my son and I) where racing karts you had to do it...Mark Capehart here in Jacksonville had SO F'ing many different preps it was unreal. Prep from inside/sidewall/outside had heat boxes and rollers hell I thought he was a chemist professor, or a new "cake" decorator. Mark had prep that smelled EXACTLY like cake, I kid you not.

I will say this....USAC like'm/hate'm did what they needed to do. Right/Wrong/Indifferent they (USAC) came to this conclusion and UNTIL you put yourself in their shoes you have NO absolutely NONE, of a reason to criticize...so get over it... but the great thing about the USA, everyone is allowed your own "OPINION" and no one can take that from ya

Please go support the racetracks in your area because it is getting tougher and tougher to travel to see races with the skyrocketing fuel prices!!! Love ALL Y'ALL

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by Hamby454:
Exactly, this and the lack of information presented from the beginning are what raised the eyebrows. They could not test the same samples 4 different times and consider that a fair test. It’s also not fair to go back at a later date and request more samples from the teams. This is, and will remain a dark cloud. Frankly the only way to truly know is to test every car in the A-main. No series will pay for those test. What if of all the cars n the field only those 4 test came back bad. Would the tune be different then. What if they did dq them and awarded say 4th place the win. After 2 weeks you can’t ask to check the tires he had in at Ocala so what if he was illegal. The simple fix is a durometer on all lr and rr tires before qualifying, heats, and features. Then take samples from the top 10 after each feature and send off the top 3. If you get back bad results you already have samples from the next guy in line to send off for testing. Unfortunately tires can’t be a grey area. It has to be black and white. Doesn’t matter if the lab screwed the pooch or not. Every tire went to the same lab so something was different. If the lab isn’t reputable get a new lab and stick with them. All of f this should be common knowledge. The crickets that surrounded this is what raised the eyebrows.

I think you are on the right track. As a matter of fact if you durometer each time a car goes on the track(except hot laps) then it shouldnt matter what they put on their tires as long as they test within the specified range of hardness/softness. No testing required.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by racefan20:
As a matter of fact if you durometer each time a car goes on the track(except hot laps) then it shouldn't matter what they put on their tires as long as they test within the specified range of hardness/softness. No testing required.

This is EXACTLY what we do as a series...black and white!

7.1 Tires: Any tire or manufacture/brand is allowed, must DUROMOTOR RR-45 LR40 before and after race...there will be a 10 minute cool down period if tire punches below benchmark. If either LR or RR is/are below by just 1 point you are DQed. No Sample will be taken and all rear tires will be checked before every race heat/B/A mains, in the event of qualifying they will be checked before and after.

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Good, so know nothings like me aren't muddying the water.

The thing that bothers me most about the whole thing is you hear for years and from many teams, We want to race for more purse. Well by the rush to judgement and for whatever reason they chose to do that And they can, their car, their $$$ behind it. It jeopardizes most of the higher purse races out there today.

Not sure you’re claiming I’m muddying the water or not. However I won’t take offense to it. Like I’ve said from the beginning is all the rumors,muddying of water, or whatever else you want to call it could easily be avoided. That indeed was brought on by usac. They didn’t hesitate to throw Learys name out when he got hit, or ruble, or brackett, etc. but this time it’s all different. Doesn’t really make sense. No matter if they are getting more testing done or not there’s no reason to protect teams, names, etc. especially since according to usac all findings are now within standard. Furthermore it’s a bit odd that essentially they are pinning this on faulty test from a lab. Is this the same lab that has gotten other people dq’Ed? What lab is it? What other labs were used? What labs will they be using in the future? That should all be common knowledge to everyone. Especially any and all competitors or those looking to compete. But again, nothing mentioned. So basically the long and short of it is, the lab sucks so we’re going to throw out these samples and use the other labs test but moving forward we’ll use the lab that failed again cause it’s cheaper until the same situation comes back up. Logic. As for the meeting it’s a licensed team owner meeting only. Let’s be serious how many people is that? 20, maybe. How many of those will actually show up? Your likely looking at a meeting involving 10 maybe 15 people. If Keith kunz, Swanson, and other teams who frequent usac shows are willing to boycott I’d be willing to bet there’s reason for speculation on the matter.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

No, not calling you muddying the water. The durometer everything was the best IDEA YET.

But without facts, Here's what I come up with.

There's been tires doped forever and people feel that because some were caught at Xtreme that it was happening at USAC as well.

That USAC did have four of five teams come back with a anomaly that didn't match the base testing sample provided by Hoosier.

That the anomaly was the exact same in all four teams

That one of the tires were purchased at the track.

That the anomaly was not any of the known tire doping compound

That only one of three labs found this anomaly and a outside tire manufacturer agreed there was no anomaly

That many teams feel USAC is protecting a couple teams from punishment they deserve.

That such protected teams reportedly threatened to leave or sue. (Reportedly)

That if such lab came back wrong, That a couple teams that have been *BUSTED* before are in question as well.

I as much as anyone want them to show up to the meeting, get their questions and evidence they need and decide from there.

I as much as anyone want to see both USAC and Xtreme do well. to me it's not one vs the other. It's for the growth and betterment of the sport.

I as much as anyone want to see all the teams race.

I as much as anyone want to see the best team and driver win.

The end.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

does the "c" in usac stand for club or clowns?

Durometer isn’t accurate isn’t even close. Would be a poor way to try to enforce anything. All depends on how much pressure is applied during the test and the person reading it. Not only that but chemicals react different at certain temperatures.

Thanks for correcting me Hamby. If so many owners are upset about it l would expect them to show. Let’s see the evidence USAC is going to show. The problem is, like other things in the country, it could be proven fact and some people will still not choose to believe it.

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
No, not calling you muddying the water. The durometer everything was the best IDEA YET.

But without facts, Here's what I come up with.

There's been tires doped forever and people feel that because some were caught at Xtreme that it was happening at USAC as well.

That USAC did have four of five teams come back with a anomaly that didn't match the base testing sample provided by Hoosier.

That the anomaly was the exact same in all four teams

That one of the tires were purchased at the track.

That the anomaly was not any of the known tire doping compound

That only one of three labs found this anomaly and a outside tire manufacturer agreed there was no anomaly

That many teams feel USAC is protecting a couple teams from punishment they deserve.

That such protected teams reportedly threatened to leave or sue. (Reportedly)

That if such lab came back wrong, That a couple teams that have been *BUSTED* before are in question as well.

I as much as anyone want them to show up to the meeting, get their questions and evidence they need and decide from there.

I as much as anyone want to see both USAC and Xtreme do well. to me it's not one vs the other. It's for the growth and betterment of the sport.

I as much as anyone want to see all the teams race.

I as much as anyone want to see the best team and driver win.

The end.

I agree with some of this. Some not so much. From my understanding the samples sent to the 2 other labs were “new” samples acquired after the cars had returned to their shops. Again I don’t know all the details and only those involved do. The fact that so many questions are being unanswered is what’s bringing the rumors to this. If indeed these new samples were acquired from the teams shop and not acquired at the track they should not matter at all. At the track everyone can see the samples being taken. From the shop who can determine if it’s the same tire?? To many uncertainties to not place blame on usac, unfortunately. As it paints a dark cloud not only over them but the sport as a whole as they have essentially been the face of non wing racing, well forever. It’s all truly sad.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by Hamby454:
I agree with some of this. Some not so much. From my understanding the samples sent to the 2 other labs were “new” samples acquired after the cars had returned to their shops. Again I don’t know all the details and only those involved do. The fact that so many questions are being unanswered is what’s bringing the rumors to this. If indeed these new samples were acquired from the teams shop and not acquired at the track they should not matter at all. At the track everyone can see the samples being taken. From the shop who can determine if it’s the same tire?? To many uncertainties to not place blame on usac, unfortunately. As it paints a dark cloud not only over them but the sport as a whole as they have essentially been the face of non wing racing, well forever. It’s all truly sad.

Yes but if the second samples taken showed the exact same results for all four teams. Not from one, But three labs. This proves the first samples and lab findings FALSE.

Originally Posted by flagboy55:
Thanks for correcting me Hamby. If so many owners are upset about it l would expect them to show. Let’s see the evidence USAC is going to show. The problem is, like other things in the country, it could be proven fact and some people will still not choose to believe it.

It’s a meeting that will likely have less than 20 people at it. I only know of a few facts. Usac hid names(not their standard way of doing things), usac claims the lab is at fault(doesn’t release said lab or even that they will be using a different lab in the future, honestly it reads as though the will continue with this lab until another issue comes up and then handle it the same way they did this one, yikes), usac claims it’s an anomaly well Hoosier knows what’s in their tires, anything in said tires, even if off in amounts wouldn’t show up in a test as it’s a chemical known to be in the tire(it’s not unrealistic that all tires used the same prep and method), there are plenty more “uncertainties” that aren’t adding up but if people such as kunz, Swanson, Amati, and other teams are boycotting(remember these are folks at the track with the series on a regular basis with more knowledge than any of us) then there is reason to believe the “facts” you believe usac is going to deliver to those 15 owners at this meeting may amount to a pile of manure. I won’t forego this any longer as I’ve said my piece. Seems some people just want to love usac. More power to them. Hell I love their product. But this, this was handled as poorly as possible by a sanctioning body and before it’s all said and done the true “facts” will come to light, whatever they may be.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

I've kept my opinions out of this thread until there was some (any) type of resolution. And even though I'm not sure I'd consider this resolved, I'll say this: there is a self-made man who has lived in the USAC world for longer than I've been alive. He is one of the most respected car owners in all of American motorsports with corporate backing from the #9 company on the Fortune 500 list. In my many encounters with this man, he has exhibited the utmost integrity, honesty, and respect. This man of high esteem is not buying what USAC is selling, to the point that he seems disgusted. This man's name is Keith Kunz and I have zero reasons to doubt him. :9:

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Yes but if the second samples taken showed the exact same results for all four teams. Not from one, But three labs. This proves the first samples and lab findings FALSE.

Everything I’ve read and heard is the first lab tested the same samples twice. Both coming back bad. Then new samples were acquired and sent to the other labs coming back clean but if you a source that clearly states I’m wrong I’d love to read it! I hope I am! And yes I see where Usac says the same sample was on used, but for me that only brings in more questions. Can you really test the exact same piece of rubber 4 times? From people who understand any type of lab work far more than me the answer is no. So I’m personally not taking usacs word as gospel on that part. I’m actually bringing on even more questions to the validity of their press release saying it’s the same sample. Based on previous experiences it seems most lab results take approximately a week or 2 to get back. How did this 1 sample get tested and results back from 3 labs in such quick turn around all of the sudden? When did the initial results come back. I don’t see that info on usacs website.

the question is, what would levi do?

Originally Posted by chrismattlin:
I've kept my opinions out of this thread until there was some (any) type of resolution. And even though I'm not sure I'd consider this resolved, I'll say this: there is a self-made man who has lived in the USAC world for longer than I've been alive. He is one of the most respected car owners in all of American motorsports with corporate backing from the #9 company on the Fortune 500 list. In my many encounters with this man, he has exhibited the utmost integrity, honesty, and respect. This man of high esteem is not buying what USAC is selling, to the point that he seems disgusted. This man's name is Keith Kunz and I have zero reasons to doubt him. :9:

Not that it matters what I think, and although I like your comments and agree with most of what you said and I have gotten to meet Mr. Kunz over the past few seasons and have a great deal of respect for him and like him as a person, here's the question to your comments...let's say he is/was going to abandon USAC for Sprint Championship...is he going to abandon Midgets Championship as well or no that isn't an issue? Midgets isnt part of this tire doping situation but USAC is USAC isnt it? Regardless of car class?

I am of the opinion, that even if you use a lowly durometer, in front of God and everyone involved, even if it is flawed , the fact that you did, and they saw you do it, it is better than sending it to who knows where, and no one sees anything tested, there's comfort in that at least, once you remove it from the area, it becomes a question.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Like I said, I and others who don't know squat. Still don't.

There have guns out there that you can put up against car paint on a car and it will tell you what color combinations, amount of thinner etc to match it.

If that can happen, Why not a spot checking type of gun. If that spot check fails then send those samples initialed, sealed validated by team to lab. Again, IN PERSON, for all to see.

Know the Durometer thing was enforced at Bloomington a couple years ago after it was determined there was a problem. Don't know if there has been any problem since.

Also recently found that two prior teams *Busted* by USAC had been found to have known doping compounds seen by the lab many times before and the results were not contested.

Like I said. Knowing they are testing, You still do it? not just one, but four, In a way not seen before or known? In the exact same way. Sounds more fishy to me than the lab screwing it up.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by DirtTrackTherapy16J:
Not that it matters what I think, and although I like your comments and agree with most of what you said and I have gotten to meet Mr. Kunz over the past few seasons and have a great deal of respect for him and like him as a person, here's the question to your comments...let's say he is/was going to abandon USAC for Sprint Championship...is he going to abandon Midgets Championship as well or no that isn't an issue? Midgets isnt part of this tire doping situation but USAC is USAC isnt it? Regardless of car class?

I'm not sure that he could abandon the Midget National Championship since it's his business. Not only does he cash checks from families in return for his services, he also cashes those Toyota checks and companies like that pay up front, at least partially. All of those entities are going to expect what they already paid for. The sprint car is a different story- I believe he was going to do that just because he loves it; he even intimated that it was going to be on a race-by-race basis initially. And I'm sure Cary and Mike won't be too upset over it since they do it just because they love it too.

Originally Posted by chrismattlin:
I'm not sure that he could abandon the Midget National Championship since it's his business. Not only does he cash checks from families in return for his services, he also cashes those Toyota checks and companies like that pay up front, at least partially. All of those entities are going to expect what they already paid for. The sprint car is a different story- I believe he was going to do that just because he loves it; he even intimated that it was going to be on a race-by-race basis initially. And I'm sure Cary and Mike won't be too upset over it since they do it just because they love it too.

Not that I am arguing with you or debating with you, you likely know way more then I do, but it's not different. IF your abandoning USAC bc of rules/unfairness/etc...then you abandon USAC...not pick and choose which car series...USAC is USAC...just saying that whole situation makes 0 sense...yes pick and choose which race you want bc Sprints are not priority #1, I get it, but it's just that...its choosing of races...not abandoning USAC as some claim. IF your abandoning USAC then you abandon USAC, that cut and dry.

Keith has contracts with midgets. The tire they run in midgets is also so soft there’s no need to soften it. I’m betting if it wasn’t for those contracts he’d be gone from that too.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Originally Posted by kinser:
This

Thanks, but I already knew that...
So Kunz is mad that other teams are getting preferential treatment?
I have no idea about all this debate going on for 27 pages.... never really cared for detective stories :11:

People are doping no matter what you guys want to believe. It’s been going on for awhile actually. USAC has been using their big broom to sweep it under a rug even before Levi left. This news is no shock to any race team. And since it has been brought up Kendall Ruble won that race. He beat other guys doping. Doping is like steroids in baseball and cycling. Pretty common

Hamby
And some people just want to hate USAC
Touché

Re: Tire Dopers
 

If we are going all conspiratorial on this incident, what may be WRG’s role in this? They stick their considerable toe in the water of USAC domains of non-wing sprints and midgets. Allegedly tires are doped, but more testing by more than one company and a tire manufacturer finds no doping. Big scandal, supposedly, and a USAC icon decides to pull his brand new sprint car operation out of USAC, but he remains in the midget ranks, because that’s where he makes his money. Pretty convenient to have scruples, but only to a point. Everyone is quick to jump down USAC’s throat on this. Did you stop to think names weren’t named because once they realized the same issue cropped on on four teams USAC didn’t want the old presumed guilty no matter if they are proven innocent crowd? There are several posters right now that would jump on that wagon immediately. The run up to and fall out from all this sounds more fishy to me the more I ponder a new entry to the promotion of non-wings. If you’re going the be a conspiracy bear, might as well be a grizzly.

Originally Posted by flagboy55:
Hamby
And some people just want to hate USAC
Touché

I don’t hate usac. But if you’re naive enough to ignore all the inconsistencies here then you’re actively making a choice to allow usac to do and make any decisions they want in regards to the following of the rules. 😂. I mean people here actually believe the same sample was test at all labs. It took a month for usac to make their first announcement. Roughly the same amount of time as the xtreme series. That involved something like 4 test at one lab. Now people believe when usac says they had 3 completely new test done at 3 different labs on the same samples. So samples had to be transported from one lab to another. I won’t even get into the logistics of that part. More so just that fact that it took 4 weeks for any word at all. Yet once “further testing” was needed magically one sample made it through 3 labs, results returned, and a 3rd party tire specialist was able to review the data and confirm the tire did indeed meet the benchmark. Suddenly. In the matter of 7-10 days. Yeah, call me a usac hater if you choose. It’s not accurate. However if you want to believe everything they say and not look at any of the red flags that’s your choice. We all have that right.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

It seems like it would be in USAC's best interest to lay out all the facts into the scrutiny of the light of day. This boiling cauldron is not doing anybody any good. Like live on YouTube. Not in sanitized press releases.

Hamby
I’m not calling you a hater. My statement was in response to your statement in a previous post that you said “some people just want to love USAC “ You can put me in that category. You can also put some in the USAC hate category. Either way all I care about is the truth. If my favorite racing club is lying and cheating, I would like to know and I will decide what to do about it from that point as far as my fandom is concerned. Right now lots of folks are saying guilty without sighting exact proof. USAC has invited owners to come see their argument. Let’s see what they say. I will say one thing I would like to see is a Flo racing camera there to record their presentation of their evidence.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Yup, done said all my concerns of who, what, where, what happened etc.

Now will the answers be enough to convince those ticked off to go forward.

What would do so? Some are convinced they're getting screwed and cant trust em. Others were convinced that if you say I was cheating and I wasn't. We'll leave.

As a fan, We go to these bigger shows to see the top 25-30 Non wingers in the country race and compete to see who''s best that night and overal thru the season

I can tell you from the old WoO/USA and WoO/NST days. Somethings missing when several of the best aren't there. Could still be a outstanding show. But there is still the "What if Steve Kinser were here? But he wasn't"

Originally Posted by flagboy55:
Hamby
I’m not calling you a hater. My statement was in response to your statement in a previous post that you said “some people just want to love USAC “ You can put me in that category. You can also put some in the USAC hate category. Either way all I care about is the truth. If my favorite racing club is lying and cheating, I would like to know and I will decide what to do about it from that point as far as my fandom is concerned. Right now lots of folks are saying guilty without sighting exact proof. USAC has invited owners to come see their argument. Let’s see what they say. I will say one thing I would like to see is a Flo racing camera there to record their presentation of their evidence.

I agree to a lot of this. I just lean towards the side of questioning it over just buying what they are selling is all. Not because I dislike usac but because well before this they was prepping going on. A lot of which was never found. I also know that preppers have evolved. Some of which even claim their stuff can’t be caught. For many years now prep has been undetectable by scent. To think these basically chemist can create something that won’t show up or won’t pass the benchmark time silly. This is literally how kart racing nose dived. Prep was introduced they found it hard to regulate, decided to allow prep and cost sky rocketed. I’d hate to see a similar fate to my favorite form of racing. But this decision is leading down that road. They are flirting in a grey area. For a sanctioning body that can’t happen. As for the meeting most of us will likely never know what will go on during it. People are blowing off the fact that a handful of cars are choosing not to race with usac. In reality how many teams competed in the entire series last year? 10-15? That number is honestly terrifying. Especially considering we lost 2 more full time guys to wings. I want the sport to succeed. No matter how you shake this is a black eye for the style racing I like the most. And it’s being handled even worse. Many series will literally drop the test results, letter head and all. The fact this is such a huge ordeal and that usac is allowing it to continue without dropping actual facts onto the situation(like lab results, what labs, what drivers, how many different samples were used, when were they acquired, how did they suddenly get such quick turn around on the lab results, who was this “tire expert” they used) is just painting an easy avoidable muddy picture that they refuse to answer for.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Folks,

We can gripe and complain about this forever. How about some solutions? Are there things that can be done from a program perspective to deter the desire for doping? Assuming the tire is doped to soften it, can the feature length be increased to the point that a doped tire wouldn't last? The one tire for qualification, heat and feature could also help this, which some organizations have adopted. The durometer rule can be effective assuming whatever durometer is in calibration (meaning it is tested against a test block prior to each use) but it would mean that any durometers used by teams at the shop to confirm the tires' hardness is also in calibration. Seems like some ambiguity here, as well. I believe we're all in agreement, though, that the current testing protocol is suspect to some degree so, is there a way to eliminate the testing necessity altogether?

Tim Simmons

Re: Tire Dopers
 

New sticker idea

[IMG]photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNwRwIxzz4LI79pr_GW6L25XSBqinFbDlhA4EeZ[IMG][/IMG]

Originally Posted by b.young:
It's not over on that front either! I find it very interesting that everyone thinks the other Series has the ability to prove their tests reliable in court. All they have is a test from a already proven wrong lab against a benchmark that never seen a racetrack.

Why don’t you just save us some time and tell us who you dope tires for ?? I know who you are.