Indiana Open Wheel - Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

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Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Quote:

Originally Posted by openwheel44 (Post 356327)

I think most knowledgeable racers agree.........on small slick tracks, the motor is not as important compared to driver skills and setup. That was all well and good when most of our tracks were 1/6th miles and small quarters that slicked off big time. Don't know about other areas but in my area......tracks are much bigger that we are running on. Big quarters up to 3/8's. Plus the promoters are tending to keep them a little wetter simply to try to keep the dust down and OFF the spectators. Hmmmmm......guess what? That's when the "built" motors started becoming apparent. Racers realized they could definitely use more horsepower. Most of us are now racing on tracks that can suck the HP right out of your car. That extra 10-20 HP started to show up more and more. then the HP war started for some. Hard tire or not..........tacky or even just big tracks let the built motors breathe. Plus on the bigger and faster tracks, there is no short supply of drivers willing to "mat it" the entire race using all the available HP. Hence....... our dilemma started. No.......we can't outlaw the really good drivers, we probably can't dictate the track size we get to run on but we sure as hell can try to get the new guy and the seasoned veteran on a level playing field motor wise.

When I raced full midgets and they went to a tire rule..........all I saw was a lot of "fresh, green" rubber going on the right rear about everytime the front runners hit the track other than practice. Tire bills started to climb dramatically. Plus.....some had "figured" out a way to run tires that were "mis-stamped." The next problem and evidently one still on going.............tire soaking. Something that is extremely hard to tech at the track. The Go Kart guys are light years ahead of us on this one. I don't know what the answer is to the tire situation. That is why I am anxious to hear what others think from each of the Midwest groups. There is a solution....we just need to find it. And find one that doesn't cost the racer more in the long run.

I'm not fighting a weight rule. I just think you need to come up with one that doesn't take you to the point of diminishing returns. Like I said........seems most of the involved groups have arrived at a minimum weight they are comfortable with. One that has kept their area racing competitive. I don't see any of them over 1000# unless you are running a motor bigger than 1000cc. We just need to find that compromise all parties can live with. Right now.......they don't appear to be that far apart.

I see a dwarf car class formulating a rules package that is debating implementing a motor rule of no motor newer than 08. Not sure this is the answer due to availability but it shows others are having the same concerns. But as new motors become available, at whatever rate, the demand for the older motors will subside. Again.........probably not the answer but it is an interesting way to approach the issue of the high horsepowered newer motors. Before you start "flaming" on me.......I didn't say I support this approach.

Don't know about the UMP Modified you are referring to but I think they are similar to our A Mods back here. If they are like our class with the same "skinny" tire.........they are killing themselves off with run away motor prices. Seems the racers are out smarting that "skinny" tire with elaborate suspension systems and driveline tricks. The more HP they can make....the closer to the front they get. To Hell with that "skinny" tire. Now.......we have the B Mod class that has stricter motor rules. It is flourishing by comparison. Go figure?

We can debate and yack on and on. I just hope the smart people we have invited to this meeting can come up with a few basic rules that are track techable on this first attempt to unify this class. If we can come up with a rules package that can be used on "National" style events.........it's still a success. We have to start somewhere.

I think that U.M.P. modifieds might be the national group that other modified groups like A & B mods base their rules off of and change around to meet their needs.

Nothing worse than going to a race meeting and listening to every body tell you why there idea is the best. If one looks into their thinking about a particular rule a little more one often finds the reason they like the rule is it gives them a perceived advantage over the other racers. The rule that no one likes is probably the best rule to have. We all race to the rules and some rules do favor one racer over another. Talk about a horsepower track think of the big "E" the only problem is they let it slick up by the time of the main events. Is it because they just don't have the bucks for more water, or they don't give a darned about the fans in the bleacher, or "IS THERE ANOTHER UNSPOKEN REASON".

We really don't belong on tracks bigger than a Quarter mile. If possible the race promoters should keep this in mind. Sidewinders work better on tracks smaller than a Quarter mile and they have developed many such tracks just for themselves.

It is very hard for a big motor to overcome a tire that is too small or too hard. That does put the job of racing back into the drivers hands. We do race with a trick chassis however and it does help overcome weight and horsepower problems that we have. (In the back of my mind that might be why I would be in favor of a hard 10" RR tire rule.)

If you come into racing mini sprints, and think money and horsepower will do it all for you and make you an instant winner you got another think coming.

I remember USAC shows running out and changing right rear tire at every red flag, that was very expensive, but if you wanted to win that is what you had to do. A few simple rules could have stopped all of that. Tire companys have the technology today "bar coded serial #'s", and racing groups have the technology "smart phones" to control the out of control use of tires. Now the doping of tires we are still working on that one in another post on IOW.

Look at Montpelier, what are they doing right? They continue to build their car counts each year. Invite Brian to your meeting.

As far as finding the magic bullet. People have been looking for it for years in racing and they just can't seem to find it. I think that would be a human thing>>> for every rule you make I or somebody like me is going to look for a way to capitalize on it, and win, it's only human.

You mentioned A mods and B mods do they race by national rules or did they adopt national rules for their purposes.

If the tire is not big enough to handle the horsepower available it is the drivers job to use every ounce of power that the tire will handle and nothing more. We have enough horsepower to buzz the right rear on almost any race night, If you like wet tacky tracks you would love pavement racing. Pavement tracks require a whole lot of horsepower. It is a whole lot harder to buzz that tire, but with enough horsepower like 800+ it can be done.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Things over here are really heating up with the Bloomington Speedway Sprints and their tire rules. Now they are are even starting to hint about '' Traction Control'', that should really be a can of worms. Not to worry we don't have enough Horse Power to need that stuff or do we?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Is Montpelier building a midget car count or a Lighting Sprint car count? Not being a smart a$$.....simply asking. I thought I read somewhere where they run a combination deal. We had a group back here.......OMMS, that ran a combo deal. Only rule....40 durometer RR that had to be used in the heat and the feature. The combo deal worked pretty good as long as we stayed on small quarters or smaller. Had full midgets, Ecotechs and Lighting Sprints. The deal faded and Valley Speedway has tried it on the their banked "large" quarter. Tacky rough track where HP talks. I haven't run the Valley deal for one simple reason.........I want to promote and grow Lighting Sprints..........not midgets. Nothing against midgets mind you.

Does Brian have a last name or better yet........way to get ahold of him?????

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Brian can be reached on the IOW at the Montpelier post (BrianBSU23). He has a post just a few away from yours right now PM him. I lost all of his info when IOW dumped my PM's. A good guy who has had a lot of luck helping to promote midget and mini sprints racing together in northern Indiana.

Stay away from those big race track, cultivate the smaller ones. We looked great at Eldora but we sure did not belong there. Racing is dangerous and big tracks with open wheels make it more so.

We also look a lot faster on the smaller tracks. Indy cars on a two and a half mile track look slow to me and I get bored watching the race, put 20 mini sprints on a one fifth mile track and I won't sit down.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Are you trying to tell me you are not smart enough to safely bolt weight on your car. C'mon i really want to know what unsafe weight is. Can I find it in a dictionary!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Hey Openwheel are you trying to tell us you are not smart enough to safely bolt on some extra weight. With all your fancy degrees and colleges this should be a breeze for you. C'mon tell me please what is unsafe weight. It would seem to me that the heavier drivers weigh more is that also unsafe weight

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Quote:

Originally Posted by diana (Post 356371)

WOW!!!!

I was kinda of wondering where diana raced but I am starting to get an IDEA now it might be west of me. All along I thought it was IN-diana but guess I was wrong.

The response from diana is probably reflective of of a few more racers out there racing in the smaller classes.

Some people>>> think in our schools we should place children with special needs alongside normal children, main streaming them.

Some people>>> thing larger more inclusive government with thousands of rules and regulations is better for us as a nation.

Some people>>>think that they are the enlightened class, and by being so should be the ones to tell the majority of the population how they should live.

Some people>>> on the other hand take a much different view on the education and rearing of their children. Some children do need special help to learn how to function better in society. They feel the majority should not be brought down to the lowest common denominator and children should be taught to strive to achieve to their maximum potential.

Some people>>> feel they should be allowed to have their voice herd in a discussion and the rules should be determined by the majority of those involved and "BIGGER" is not necessarily "BETTER".

We find the same two groups of people in racing. It is just a Human thing... Right side brain thinkers as opposed to left side brain thinkers.

I for one like the Idea of a "Benevolent Dictator" such as Tony Hulman, or Big Bill France or maybe Ted Johnson. These guys saw their positions as Leaders of their endeavors, they made rules that were fair for all and with the one intention of growing their business holdings.

Racing should be a business and those that run that business should have the most at stake. These Dictators do not have to be loved by everyone but they do need their respect.

Whenever anyone tries to run a race organization as a PSEUDO-DEMOCRACY, what usually happens is they get a bunch of crackpots like me trying to tell them what to do. Then they go back and do what they darned well please.

The person in charge of a racing organization should have "no skin in the game" themselves. That means they or any of their kin should not own cars or race in that division. It places them in a compromising position and makes it almost impossible to be seen as fair and open minded.

A dictator would or should recognize that there are racers out there like "diana". Since racing is not a "God Given Right" or for that matter even an "ENTITLEMENT". It is in fact an action of choice. If he wished for more people to make that choice to race with his group he would move in a direction to accommodate those racers, if for nothing more than to increase the car count.

This is but one view of racing and life as seen by one old and set in his ways old man. Please do not:21: me.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Please take all these "Long" arguments somewhere else! ....and don't forget your soap boxes when you exit! Thanks

Re: Central region Lightning / Mini sprint meeting

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbaumeyer48 (Post 356389)

Please take all these "Long" arguments somewhere else! ....and don't forget your soap boxes when you exit! Thanks

You are reading, that's a good thing.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Unsafe weight would be a 25lb battery bolted to a .095 alum floor board. Unsafe weight is 20 lb lead blocks resting on torsion tubes with 1/4 20 bolts holding it on...

I'm guilty, weights not a great thing unless its in the form of roll bars.