Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

I am guessing the extinguishing agent would be dry chem(ical). In closed cockpit cars the immediate concern is the driver compartment. I seem to remember when the extinguishers went off that was the target. Subsequently track workers/first responders would hit under the hood once they arrived on the scene. For a sprinter, with an open cockpit, I assume the target would be under the cowl at the engine directly for the automatic discharge? Would there be nozzles to hit the driver/seat area, also? Maybe a discharge directly at the fuel tank from the cockpit back?

I understand the overall goal, I am just trying to get an idea on how to accomplish said goal and maximize the driver protection.

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
I am guessing the extinguishing agent would be dry chem(ical). In closed cockpit cars the immediate concern is the driver compartment. I seem to remember when the extinguishers went off that was the target. Subsequently track workers/first responders would hit under the hood once they arrived on the scene. For a sprinter, with an open cockpit, I assume the target would be under the cowl at the engine directly for the automatic discharge? Would there be nozzles to hit the driver/seat area, also? Maybe a discharge directly at the fuel tank from the cockpit back?

I understand the overall goal, I am just trying to get an idea on how to accomplish said goal and maximize the driver protection.

The Late Model system has four nozzles.

Off the top of my head if I'm plumbing a Sprint Car with four nozzles: one in the engine bay, one aimed at the fuel pump, one aimed at the driver's torso, one aimed at the fuel cell.

I could see the Sprint Car system only having three nozzles.

Description of the system...

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

NHRA has ran them for years.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Originally Posted by kinser:
I’ve ran them both ways on the sprints and silver crown cars. Both ways have their pluses and minuses. In the mid 90’s Waterman had an emergency fuel shut off valve that we ran on the silver crown cars. It had a pin with a red flag attached to it so it was visible to the safety crews. You pulled a pin and then pulled a t handle attached to a cable and it shut the fuel off at the tank.

I still run the Waterman shutoff valve on my Silver Crown tank. While a step in the right direction we need to realize that we are counting on the driver to be coherent enough to pull this pin (if the release is in the cockpit) along with scrambling to get out of the car. Ours is external, so a track worker would have to pull this pin. After his fire Wolfgang was credited with the valve, in the same location, that opened only with oil pressure. A little more of an automatic system but I don't know if anyone is running that or not.

Here is where I'm coming from - I know of no other form of automobile racing that allows the fuel pump to be located within the confines of the cockpit. What we have in open wheel racing is the pump in the cockpit of a vehicle with significantly more propensity to flip, etc. With the added requirement of the safety seats in an already confined cockpit it becomes difficult to exit in a hurry should the need arise. Wouldn't we also need to look at re-locating the fuel pump outside the cockpit, along with the fire suppression system? Doesn't removing the fuel potential add another layer of safety?

Just more food for thought.

Tim Simmons

The Racesaver series gives a 25lb. weight break if you run a fire suppression/extinguisher system. We have run the King system for 6 years with no issues. I feel so strongly about this that NPD will sell anyone the system at our dealer cost + shipping ( this system is under $500 our cost). Just call/text Duke at 317-450-7564 or contact Alex Nalon on Facebook.
Remember you only get one chance!

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Originally Posted by Tim:
Wouldn't we also need to look at re-locating the fuel pump outside the cockpit, along with the fire suppression system? Doesn't removing the fuel potential add another layer of safety?

Yes it does. Remove the entire system - pump, filter, lines. Wolfgang's issue started when a filter cracked/broke off if I remember correctly.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

The cable driven, in-tank pumps that Waterman built solved the problem of having the pump and some fuel system plumbing in the cockpit, was used in midgets, sprints and silver crown but there were big reliability issues with the cable drive so it fell out of favor pretty quickly.
There were also frame-mounted, cable driven pumps on some silver crown cars as well.

I seem to remember it was mandated by USAC for the ill-fated new generation crown cars.

As far as a shut off valve at the tank, carbureted stock cars use a check valve off the fuel cell that only opens when it sense a slight vacuum created by the fuel pump with the engine running. They were a brass body, -8 inline unit kinda looks like a bypass and cost about $50.

I would guess the All Stars will follow WoO's lead and require them next year, and I would image they will just up the minimum weight by the weight of the fire system. I would also anticipate that all the nozzles will be in the cockpit area, you would need all of the agent you can get in an open cockpit car and with only a 5 lb system you probably couldn't do the other locations effectively. Safecraft has an automatically activated system that starts at around $600 designed for sprint cars, it uses a 3M liquid agent (not dry chemical). There was a really cool video on their website showing the system in action.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Originally Posted by Duke17:
The Racesaver series gives a 25lb. weight break if you run a fire suppression/extinguisher system. We have run the King system for 6 years with no issues. I feel so strongly about this that NPD will sell anyone the system at our dealer cost + shipping ( this system is under $500 our cost). Just call/text Duke at 317-450-7564 or contact Alex Nalon on Facebook.
Remember you only get one chance!

Duke,

When you say there have been no issues, have you had occasion to need the fire suppression system, as in- have you had a fire that required it? If so, were there any ill-effects of the agent to the driver? I'm wondering if the chemical used works by removing the oxygen required for a fire, essentially smothering the flame, or does it "douse" the fire by removing the heat required for a fire. Hopefully SFI will be looking at this, as well, so the prevention of burns to the driver doesn't cause lasting ill-effects on the driver.

Tim Simmons

I would like to thank Mr Gentry for stating an indisputable fact, one that needs to be brought up as a reminder from time to time. That said I’m all for reasonable and tangible safety improvements that works for most racers.