Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by Backitin:
Nonwing sprints and midgets in general are going the dinosaur route, less of them around over time and most that are still around are on three legs. The extinction started on the east coast and is heading west. I don't care if you have 12 cars racing, it's 12 more then we have here and I'd support it while you can.

Try to keep up.

In the midwest there are at least 125 non-wing sprints a weekend racing on Saturday nights between LPS, Paragon, Lawrenceburg, WAR, and BOSS.

On the left coast there are at least 30 USAC/CRA, 25 USAC/West Coast, and 25 USAC/Southwest cars at every show each of the three have.

That's over 200 non-wing cars and that doesn't even include the cars that only chase USAC points.

They aren't becoming extinct just because you don't have them on the east coast.

If you ask us in the midwest what's becoming extinct we would say 410ci wing sprints.

Sorry everyone for the pavement thread hijack by talking about dirt but had to respond.

.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

used to be when racing started that you raced what you had anywhere on anything.
You needed no special car for each discipline.
Todays dirtcars can be run on asphalt, they are still cars right ?
This is one of the prime examples of how some (not all) rich car owners whom made it mandatory to over spend on everything. I saw it in the early 70's with the Weld modifieds and maniacs spending huge money to have a Indy built Modified. Big fat factory pigs compared to a true east coast modified. When guys beat the factory cars suddenly weight rules and such became the norm. Money being spent that pushed us right out of the sport.
I'm getting to be an old fool but I know for a fact that the golden age of racing dirtcars is long gone. I really do feel bad for the younger generation that missed what racing and the racing community was like in the late sixtys and seventies. The days that you didn't go thru a catalog, but you went around to guys garages to see what they're building.

200 cars racing on a weekend out of all the US ? Those are good numbers ?
I can show you tracks here that pull over 125 cars a night more then once a year., one track one night.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by Nate:
That was just always what I thought. Why spend the money to build, maintain, race a car and/or cars that you're only going to use a handful of times a year? There were only 5 SC races on pavement scheduled this year and 1 rained out.

Honestly, and I speak only for myself, the reason I spend the money and work on the cars that we're only able to race a few times a year is because I love it. This is my hunting and fishing and bowling, .... That's why I do it. Pretty stupid, huh ?

Tim Simmons

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

I love racing, both dirt and pavement. Don't want to see either go away, I am offering my help in any way to keep them on the track. I have over 50 year experience in racing including promoting. What can I do to help?

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by drtracr:
I love racing, both dirt and pavement. Don't want to see either go away, I am offering my help in any way to keep them on the track. I have over 50 year experience in racing including promoting. What can I do to help?

The simplest and maybe yet hardest. Bring sponsors to the events so that the purses get bigger and guys have to at least think twice about bringing their cars out and try for the extra cash brought in. I think that works for Crown cars dirt and asphalt.

Now when you talk about sprints or mods or whatever; you will see time and time again lower car counts for more money. Reasons being higher cost of admission; and the extra competition it brings in (faster cars and drivers), leaving budget racers thinking they can't make the show or even if they do they will have to really run the car hard and risk it to still be middle pack. {Which may be true or untrue depending on situation.}

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by drtracr:
I love racing, both dirt and pavement. Don't want to see either go away, I am offering my help in any way to keep them on the track. I have over 50 year experience in racing including promoting. What can I do to help?

Wow. This thread has been buried for awhile.

First off, thanks for volunteering your services.

But now that you are asking to help, for a successful formula, I suggest you implement NONE of the following:

Stage racing
The Lucky Dog
The Wave Around
Phantom yellows for debris that no one can find (not even Columbo)
Competition yellows to check tire wear
Competition yellows to bunch up the field
Speed limits on pit road under green flags
Common body templates
Downforce
1.5 mile tri-ovals
Unlimited tires in stock
Political correctness
Michael Waltrip
Darrell Waltrip
Kenny Wallace
Brian France
Danica Patrick (including any type of media coverage)

To be SUCCESSFUL, though, I would start by getting AVSS and Must See to take the wings off and race at places like Winchester, Salem, IRP (ORP, LOR, LORP... whatever it is called now), maybe South Band, etc. Outside of Indiana..... take knife.... put it to throat..... pull straight across. Maybe Toledo can prop us up to the East. Or Sandusky with Super Mods. Keep it local and centralized. Only rule - minimum weight WITH driver in the car.

Give the mike to Bob Jenkins.

Someone to bankroll the racing for a few years would be required, too. But I have no skin in the game. I am only a fan. Oh..... wait.... you need guys like me and my buds.

Once again, thanks for offering up. Really. Your slingshot is waiting for you over there, David. Remember.... aim between the eyes. He's a big boy.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Wow. Mike you got on the soap box, impressive. i would suggest AVSS, Must see, and King of the Wings put down their weapons and get everyone on the same page. No weight rule, no engine rule, no tire rule, invite the supers from Ohio to join the tour and maybe, just maybe they might be able to book a nice schedule of races for us fans to come see. :deadhorse::deadhorse:

Rich M

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Asphalt Silver Crown racing is awesome, as are non wing sprints and midgets on asphalt. We need USAC to support them again. Car counts and attendance never matched dirt other than shows like Turkey Night at Irwindale, and the car counts during the recession didn't help in keeping USAC from dropping asphalt. But times are better again, and now a top shelf asphalt car can be bought for a song, so let's get asphalt back on schedule for all three types of cars. The cars are in garages. Look at the Little 500 car count.

Did not think we would see this resurface until at least two weeks when salem runs.i would reintroduce it of course.we need at least twenty cars for the pavement crown cars to be viable.we need four more cars from somewhere.i can't believe that cannot be achieved.i am putting out a call to all silver crown cars that can be run on pavement to come to salem.notice i am giving in to those of you who say a dirt car cannot be run on pavement,although it isn't true.tired of arguing.i can't believe there are exactly the same sixteen to nineteen cars that always show up in captivity.there were nearly fifty at one time.four cars is all i am asking for🤓🤓🤓

I don't think stevensville mike likes nascar.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

The number of cars that are competitive in the Silver Crown is what? 6 or 7 ? there are 3-5 start and parks from guys that try to help the series and pick up some pocket money! Then a few that really lack the resources to finish within 3-5 laps of the leaders.

I think the answer is tire cost.....I have been away from the "inside" for quite some time, but guessing tire bills for those that do it 1st class around $1800 or more (note 1st class). This directly relates to the slower cars that use used tires. The majority of the cars are Beast chassis that are very similar, so it comes down to HP/SHOCKS/Tires and Talent! HP/Shocks cost very similar dirt to pavement....so we are down to the cost of tires? Now, I am not blaming tire company's, I have no clue what it cost to manufacture, transport, ect, tires to the track?

I do not have the remedy but I do believe the tire cost is the #1 reason for the low car counts in all forms of pavement racing. To pay $2000 to start ( $2000 would cover tire bill, fuel, transportation, pit pass, registration) and $10,000 to win to a 20 car field would need a purse in the neighborhood of $53000!! I don't think the fan base is big enough to make this happen?

Andy hillenberg rebuilt the usac dirt silver crown division,someone needs to be found who can do the exact mirror image for pavement.they are out there.who is it.that is the question.hillenburg,sorry andy.the job you did for usac silver crown racing is one of the truly remarkable achievements in recent memory.if you read this forum ,is there a way to do the same thing for pavement.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by ossuks:

I think the answer is tire cost.....I have been away from the "inside" for quite some time, but guessing tire bills for those that do it 1st class around $1800 or more (note 1st class). This directly relates to the slower cars that use used tires. The majority of the cars are Beast chassis that are very similar, so it comes down to HP/SHOCKS/Tires and Talent! HP/Shocks cost very similar dirt to pavement....so we are down to the cost of tires? Now, I am not blaming tire company's, I have no clue what it cost to manufacture, transport, ect, tires to the track?

I'll tell you what's stopping me because I've been very close to buying a combo car on the cheap.

Tires and a specialty motor. I have $30k into my non wing 410 engine. I refuse to go spend $15k (that I don't have at the moment) on a decent used silver crown engine. Where I'm going to use it 5-8 times a year. Also, you're spot on for tire costs. During our break, we almost decided to sell the sprint car stuff and go pavement late model racing. Then I talked to some friends and recognized that they're spending anywhere from $2k to $4k every race on tires. Just to make a little bit more purse money than we do in the sprint car. Pavement sprint and silver crown racing are no different. I just cannot afford to blow $2k on tires to make $700 back. Hoosier has made this sport unachievable for the low buck teams.

Here's how you make it affordable.

1. 1 complete set of tires for the whole weekend. And give us choices for tires. Either American Racer (not sure if they make pavement tires but I assume they do) or Hoosier.

2. Use a 410 with a restrictor. Good Silver Crown engines are now in the 700-750 range. A restrictor would bring my motor down to that. (This probably isn't a popular opinion, but it would bring car counts up).

Lots of these ideas we already are using in the ILLINI midget series. We allow the national engine's with a restrictor plate even though we are mostly a Ecotec 2.4L stock engine series. Have a one set tire rule using American Racers full set cost $375.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by david mitchell:
Usac has done a fantastic job of rebuilding their Silver Crown program on dirt, but for some reason it is not working with the pavement...

Dirt is more fun first and there are more opportunities to run dirt. Pavement anything is much more expensive and has developed to be very specific in setup and car construction. If a tire solution could be found, I think that would help some, but spec tires usually equal boring racing, so... Perhaps the tire companies could formulate a tire that gets better with wear. Just spit balling.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by david mitchell:
I don't think stevensville mike likes nascar.

....anymore.

If you do it right on pavement you can get by with one set of new tires a race which is just under $800...

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Not every owner has a Bobby Santos!!

As far as tire prices go,can you say gouging.i think i know who gets rich in this racing business.with power comes dictating and control.i don't like the purple.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

We have run winged pavement sprint cars since 1990. When a first started, yes, we just threw some coil overs on our dirt car, a right front brake and went for it. As things progressed, we bought a pavement car, but we've always had a dirt car also. But here's a little tidbit for you tire "experts."
In 1990, a Hoosier right rear cost about $160. And the fast guys put a new one on every night. We were running for $200 to start.
Now, a Hoosier right rear cost $212 and we get $500 to start.
Recently, the Auto Value Super Sprints opened up the tire rule to allow American Racer tires. They even offered a $200 bonus on a couple of races if you started the feature on all four American Racers. I think we had two extra cars show up.
To me, it spoke volumes. It's not the tires.

Tom Paterson

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
Wow. This thread has been buried for awhile.

First off, thanks for volunteering your services.

But now that you are asking to help, for a successful formula, I suggest you implement NONE of the following:

Stage racing
The Lucky Dog
The Wave Around
Phantom yellows for debris that no one can find (not even Columbo)
Competition yellows to check tire wear
Competition yellows to bunch up the field
Speed limits on pit road under green flags
Common body templates
Downforce
1.5 mile tri-ovals
Unlimited tires in stock
Political correctness
Michael Waltrip
Darrell Waltrip
Kenny Wallace
Brian France
Danica Patrick (including any type of media coverage)

To be SUCCESSFUL, though, I would start by getting AVSS and Must See to take the wings off and race at places like Winchester, Salem, IRP (ORP, LOR, LORP... whatever it is called now), maybe South Band, etc. Outside of Indiana..... take knife.... put it to throat..... pull straight across. Maybe Toledo can prop us up to the East. Or Sandusky with Super Mods. Keep it local and centralized. Only rule - minimum weight WITH driver in the car.

Give the mike to Bob Jenkins.

Someone to bankroll the racing for a few years would be required, too. But I have no skin in the game. I am only a fan. Oh..... wait.... you need guys like me and my buds.

Once again, thanks for offering up. Really. Your slingshot is waiting for you over there, David. Remember.... aim between the eyes. He's a big boy.

Best post I've read in a long time. Nailed it. :8::9:
:15:(Don't forget restrictor plates)

Tires costs arent the issue... we bring two sets of tires to a pavement race, one is a set of scuffs and the other is a brand new set. When we run the dirt silvwr crown races, we bring 2 sets of fronts and 5 LR tires and 5 RR tires...
Go ahead and do the math, we are spending more on dirt tires than pavement...

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

What is the issue.someone tell me.anyone,mr.funk.we had nearly 50 silver crown cars at pavement races until usac decided we needed the superspeedway ugly car.then,magically,they all went away.where are they.did a glacier get them.someone tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think all car counts have dropped, not just silver crown. For example you used to have enough sprint cars to run semi-features at Bloomington and Gas City when they ran against each other on Friday night. With Gas City closed car counts are even smaller at Bloomington, not larger.

Re: Lack of cars on pavement
 

One thing when discussing the future of pavement Silver Crown or sprint cars on dirt for that matter. The first thing you always hear is the car tech side, some saying if the technical side was "reasonably priced" some how, the current non-participants or those thinking about forming teams would decide to tip the scale and join in.

The one thing I think would help the most would be hiring 3-4 full time, proven, marketing/PR people to gain additional series sponsorships, focus on companies that could help fund and advertise with every series. Put real money into the participant owners, drivers, track owners pockets and you would see participation grow. There are plenty of companies that have customer focus on rural America, High Tech, and want to get their message out and currently pay for advertising of all types. Who is out there telling them to spend it on pavement sprint/silver crpwn car racing. It takes money and work. It would be an investment in the sport. I think it could be done.

I can't even get anybody to play pavement sprintcars on iracing😣

I would spend the kids college funds, the 401k, retirement,and inheritance to field a pavement car if the excitement was there like it was years ago ( Thursday night thunder days). Those years on pavement produced some of the greatest talents we've ever seen , volger,butler,Stanley ,Irwin jr.,Stewart, bliss,kalitta ,Steele ,leffler and so many more. I can only hope one day it returns , until then ill get my pavement fix once a year in may at anderson . Thank God dirt Sprint cars are so popular or we'd lose that too