Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Instead of "COW PUNCHING" the rules on a forum, why not pick up your "ma bell", Cell Phone fer you young whipper snappers and CALL the series that you intend to race with....yea I know that is not as much fun as giving "YOUR" opinon on IOW as to what you would like or what you would do, so, if you are absolute set on having the rules the way YOU personally want them to fit your agenda, I would suggest you get started....puttin' in the MANY MANY MANY hours it takes to run a series or race track then set back and get ready to have EVERY DAG GUM THING critqued.

Hear are the rules....call, get CLEARIFCATION in writing (email) so you can have back up when you go to a series and you say "I was told it's legal".

Other than that.... I LOVE ALL YA'LL!!!!!!!! ...even you Bill Jones:26:

All that computer **** has no business in midget racing, it's not F-1.
Mechanical systems work just fine.

Let the guy behind the wheel win the race, not the geek behind the laptop who doesn't have the balls to strap in himself.

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Wayne

Bet you just saying that:D

I lost your darned phone number>>>they painted the walls in my office.

You guys are doing good, What the heck is that "thing a ma bob" over the fuel tank?

LJC It is the "21st century" and that puter stuff takes a lot of guessing out of fueling.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Don't give **** what century it is, thats just an excuse for someone to lazy to figure it out.

That computer bs where a lot of the crying is coming from. IE: traction control, variable timing, ect.

Use mechanical systems stop the crying, strap in n race

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Bob

Probably because it takes an army to move a sprint car.

I don't think you are too far off with the Neon Motor, I think the 2.4 is just a little larger version. Junk yard price of a 2.4 is probably $400.00 but I bet you could get the 2.0 exempted with a phone call. Then you need to find somebody with machine shop experience to work up a set of throttle bodies. Me I would get a M/C throttle body and cut and splice the thing together.

It sound like you are pretty close to being a Midget Racer Owner.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

LJC

The reason that D2 Midgets exist is because of all this 21st century technology. These little Automotive engines owe a lot of their power to computers, 4 valve cylinder heads, CAD design and production.

Imagine a 60 cubic inch Motor producing 200 Horsepower>>>That is F-1 performance and today you can go down to the corner and buy one right off the show room floor.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

headed out tonight BJ....give ya a call when I'm on the road

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Wayne

PM me I wasn't kidding about the number.

BJ

Wrong, D2 concept was born more than 20 years ago and run very successfully, best part you could run what ever 4 cylinder you wanted.
Now everyone wants to run their own version of the same concept.
Now you have usac and poweri getting involved and nothing but ******** and crying about what motor what ignition and so on.
We watched what usac did with the focus series, people just don't seem to get the motor is just part of the expenses.
The cheapest motor is the one he already has.
We'll just have to sit back and watch how this "new revolution" excels.
But don't sit here and tell everyone this is some new and great idea that's going to save midget racing.
There's a much more affordable way to do it, and it's been proven for more than 20 years

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

LJC

OK who are they and where do they run?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

I swear, some of you would find something to complain about if you won the Powerball. :17:

We're 5 months away from the first car even touching a racetrack, yet all the "experts"
can't wait to say how f'ed up it all is. Yet not one of those "experts" had the stones to step up and start an organization the way they obviously know it should be done.

Not one of those "experts" tried to look out for the sport as a whole, and not just their personal agenda.

DAD, your constant, and I do mean constant novel length responses about everything, do more harm than good to something, I think, you support... Hard to tell with all you say?... And soooo sorry you weren't invited to the meeting so you could write a proper rule book. Because you know, operations like POWRi/IMRA/ILLINI/MidwestD2 have no experience in such matters. :17:

There was a group of people that sat down who represented many facets of Midget racing. All set personal agendas aside, and worked VERY HARD to come with a set rules to HELP THE SPORT AS A WHOLE! It was actually very cool to witness and participate. EVERYONE worked together to try and make something special that all who can afford a Midget, can participate in the sport they love, and still make the house payment.

Is it perfect? Hell no. Never will be. But the first wheel hasn't touched a track, and all the "experts" are up in arms about this, that, and whatever.... NONE OF WHICH IS HELPING ANYTHING but airing your own personal gripe. All that doesn't exactly help when seen by someone sitting on the fence about doing this (Racers or Promoters). All they see, is what they have seen for the last 30 years... Constant complaining.

A lot of people know that something had to be done. Hut 100, gone. Night Before the 500, gone. Turkey Night, life support. Belleville is about the same. Gold Crown, 24 cars. The current way of doing things is not working, and folks with the sports best interest in mind are trying to help things get healthy again. Nobody claimed we're going to "fix" Midget racing, we're just trying to help it get stronger.

Will things change down the line? Sure. But until all you "on paper" racers actually race, and see how things go, work with what you were given, and see if you actually in reality, have an issue. We'll listen and adjust accordingly because we want you there too!

The motorcycle engine car's rules have not changed a whole lot. The Driveshaft cars rules, and yes I am going to say this, were based around the Ecotec. Plain fact.
Why? Because of the cars that are already D2, 96% are Ecotecs. Be kind of silly to punish what is preferred, and already works well for this class of car.

Will they have an advantage? First off, not over the Motorcycle Engines. These guys have their act together, and run well with the Ecotecs, and vice versa. As mentioned, it may take some tweaking, but that's where it's going to start... Ya gotta start somewhere.

As far as the other legal engines. Again, the Ecotec is the standard. We tried to get engines that were as close OUT OF THE FACTORY to the Ecotec as possible, while staying in the 2.4 parameters, and not just handing out an advantage to another make. The Ecotec has a many year headstart with tons of $ spent to develop, and work through to make into a nice Midget engine. Should you just tell those people that all the time, effort, and money you spent will be worthless because we're just going to let the other engines be equal or better (in stock configuration) right out of the box?? Those people started this deal... They took a flyer on this Ecotec thing. Now it's someone's turn to build a better mousetrap with a Honda, Ford, or even the Chrysler (which other than DAD, nobody has even mentioned??).
Could other engines have been chosen? Maybe, probably, who knows... I am sure someone on here will and continue to say so, and covering each particular engine here as to why or why not, would be longer than one of DAD's posts. You just have to trust me when I say that THE GROUP, not one person worked through this, and landed where we landed. Saying again, we gotta start somewhere, imperfect or not.

Again. Changes can, and will be made as things move forward. But as mentioned, it has to start somewhere. We want other makes to participate... That's a great thing. But do your due diligence like the Ecotec folks have already done. See what your mousetrap can do. If it's just not working, it will be looked at, and attempts will be made to make it better.
Rules will change, maybe even some before we get started??.. But PLEASE quit taking up your personal issues with whatever, on message boards... You are only hurting the bigger picture.

IRS has been been budget racing in Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Iowa since '92, same cars on dirt and pavement.
O yea here's the fly in the ointment that no one likes, they run the same tires on dirt and pavement.
Yep there goes the integrity of midget racing, small tires and restrictors and it's an amateur series.
Opps forgot, sorry I waisted your time, carry on poweri and usac, steel the idea and show um how's it's done by pros.
But they proved chain drives,national engines and stock blocks can all compete competitively with their amateur formula

DAD, I already have a Hilborn setup for it, but comparing advertised hp, it's pretty far down the list. Time will tell. Bob

I agree crankn, to much crying and ********.
My opinion was if everyone so worried about electronics, simply eliminate them, problem solved. You can run without them.
Other than that just giving the credit to those that laid down the foundation for all this.
Hope it all works out.

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Bob

That is why they make pills.:). But I guess if you want to race it will have to be the 2.4 motor. It should fit right in where the 2.0 motor did.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

I kinda like the 4 valve thing, and it's all ready in there, why not give it a go, maybe the HP thing was a misprint, it has an aftermarket ign system, I'll probably dry sump it, if it isn't already, we just transferred things from his trailer to mine, and I didn't get a good look at what was on the end of the dipstick, I got boxes of boxes to go thru, hell, I might even find a seat, or a radiator tray, I got some surgery coming up Thursday, depends on the outcome of that when I get to unload stuff, been working on my Mustang, so at least I can stand on it once in a while. Bob

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Pretty much verbatim on what I said in the last thread he created.

Here's the bottom line with all this D2 bullsht. And now I'm getting drunk so here's the truth.
You guys with your new revolution crap just parked about 10 cars that now have no where to run.
Sure it's minute in the big picture but you just assfckd guys who can't afford to build a new power plant from the ground up, then throw affordability in their face. Make them spend more $ to race each weekend and race for less pay out.
They had a club to run in and you took it away from them.
Just no name guys with only a few bucks to their name that gave what they had to do what they love and they got sht on. They helped make the foundation your building on.
Just remember that.
Guess that's no different than the corporate world.
Enjoying the benifits from the sweat n blood of others

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

If you need any help sorting/putting away stuff, I'm free during the day Saturday.

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Dad
I challenge You,Wayne Davis,Jay Tinder and all the D2 rules makers and enforcers to keep D2 midget racing affordable. We haven't even raced these rules one year and already I'm starting to see what I call rules creep. You guys have came up with a great rules package I don't agree with all of them but there isn't anything there that nobody cannot live with.
Over the years what I have observed there is only 2 reasons to change rules but lately a third has can to light.
#1 someone wants to sell some product.
#2 someone thinks if they have these that or another it will give them an advantage.
#3 They (this includes me) have a fear of new technology.
PLEASE
DON'T LET ANYONE ALTER THIS RULES PACKAGE FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
Bobby Layne
2015 Central Missouri Lightning Sprint CHampion

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Bobby,
One source will only do 1 year at a time...(I personally do not agree with that)...My current SSMS rules was written 3 years ago and lasted for 3 years. I am a firm believer that if someone "INVESTS" in our belief that we need to honor that belief for no less then 3 years. This is why the Southern States Midget Series rules like they did from 2012-2015 will be from 2016 to 2018. This is to show the commitment I have toward the racer and if he buys an engine for this years rules it WILL NOT be outlawed next year. Yes we also have in our rules like everyone else that rules can be "TWEEK" for the sake of compatition but no engine will be banned that is in place. That is why my Gator"DIRT"National rules are just a little different then my series rules...Basic engine is the same...

Division II was created as an AFFORDABLE alturnable to nation midgets and needs to be just that. I have said this to others and I will say this to the public today. NOT ENOUGH steps was taken at the Oct. meeting to keep it affordable but it was steps in the right direction to cut alot of $$$ that you have to spend.

I know I am kinda on an Island down here in the south but I do feel I am atleast part of the movement and hope all will stay true to their word and not let outside (sponsors-engine/chassis builders) influnence them for the sake of midget racing.

I wish I could make the PRI show and meet everyone but unfortunaully I am not. Hope everyone has a great time.

Merry Chrisrmas to all and Happy New Year!!!!!!!!:32:

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Thanks for the offer, I am having surgery on my back tomorrow, so I imagine doing anything physical may be a no no for a while, maybe after Christmas, have a Merry Christmas! Bob

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Bob let me know how the back surgery works out...my doc is pressing me to go ahead and have it

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Wayne

Sorry about rattling the cages on the rule thing. This post started as a plug about Bob being on Racin with DO and seems to just have progressed. You know how I feel about K.I.S.S. I am still waiting for somebody to clarify what the heck that Chinese Fuel tank guard is?:D

Now since we have made another turn with you and Bob and Back Surgery>>>My advice and you know I always give good advice is GETRDONE.

I had what they called a Spinal Laminectomy about 5 years ago. It got to where I could not walk. I had checked into it 15 years ago and the doctor said I would be layed up for 6 months and then he couldn't promise that I would be able to walk. Well I went back in because at the time if I died on the OR table it would have been a blessing. This new Doctor said well you will be in the hospital for about 2 days and be off work 2 weeks, I said What?????

Like Motors back surgery has come a long way in the last few years. They went in with side cutters and cut off them little fins sticking out of my 5 lower vertebra then he went in and ported and polished the holes to make room for my nerves to pass through. I felt better the next day and was at work in a week. I did miss one race I think?


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Hey Dad
Can't you read the rules? No porting & polishing!
I guess cutting the fins off falls under fitting it into the chassis so I think you're OK there...
That "tank cover" rule is straight outta the USAC book; I think it refers to the dorsal-fin over the top plate that they put on asphalt cars, and probably has no meaning in the dirt-track world. I never figured out what they were for anyway...

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Wayne, I'd like to get an estimate on one of them too, what they are doing tomorrow, is remove a malignant tumor off my back, but I would like to get something done so I could walk decent again. Getting old isn't for the faint of heart! But it's fun on the way! Bob

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Bob

Wat you have here is a young guy that has a thirst for knowledge and is willing to pay for it with labor. He has been with the MMSA helping out for the last several years. If he was just a little closer I would take his offer in a heart beat. Heck I might even go out in the shop if I had some help.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I know, I used to have a shop full of guy's wanting to help and learn, but they all grew up and got married, or just simply got busy, we all fall in there somewhere, I used to be in the shop from before daylight till way after dark, even till after daylight the next day, but I can't schedule my time like I used to, if this lad lived in the neighborhood, I could keep his mind busy, but now I have to work when I feel like it, which is mostly from about 10:00AM, till about 4:PM, then I'm done. Kinda hard to ask someone to do that kind of unschedule. Bob

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Deal. It's just a short trip down I65 to Seymour for me.

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

DAD,

You are the tech guy for the Midwest D2 series right?

Re: USAC and D2 Midgets
 

Here's a good place to start, I think there are 11 pages posted at this time, some pretty good reading, for an old man! Bob

Is montpelier the only Indiana track?for d2s.

Until the USAC Midwest Thunder releases its schedule, yes.
With that said, im not sure on this, but Kokomo has 5 "midget" dates that might include D2? Same goes for Shady Hill's few dates, but i personally don't think that is a good place for open wheel cars, safety wise (light pole locations... unless that's changed in the last few years?). Waynesfield welcomes D2 when AMSA runs non wing.

POWRi and USAC/IMRA have some good friday Saturday combos either as one, or combined between the two. They include Lincoln, IL and Brownstown, IL (among others) that aren't too bad of a tow.... Depending on where your at in Indiana.

And just a side note, IMRA just announced that all races at Spoon River are now $400 to win, $75 to start!! (Minimum 15 cars... which isn't an issue at SR)
After its first year at Spoon River, they have seen the benefit of the D2 class, and raised the purse! How often have you heard of any track doing that in the recent past?!
I would expect others will follow suit soon, as car counts are strong at most tracks!

We're in eastern Indiana.considering moving from tqs to d2s.our biggest concern is the lack of races in Indiana.

Understand that. Thats why i included looking at 2 days of racing in Illinois.
You might contact the folks who run the USAC Midwest Thunder group on FB. The folks who run it are from western Ohio, so they are looking at about the same travel issues as you.
They might be able to tell you more about their upcoming schedule, and if they're involved in the Kokomo and/or shady hill races.... Or possibly somewhere else??

Ok,thanks.

I liked the old days. Quarter Midget. Half Midget, 600 micro, TQ Midget, 1200 mini sprint and FULL BLOWN MIDGET. JMO.

Oh yeah,and now the tqs are allowing 600cc engines.So now the lines get more blurred from them to minis.Half midget?

Lol on the TQs. Half Midget was basically a quarter midget with a very small 2 stroke motor cycle engine in it. They no longer exist . I ran one about 34 years ago. Back in the day they had novice, stock, Mod , B, A , AA and Half. I guess it's safe to say the full midgets are following the quarter midgets from years past.