Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
. Your still gonna have 20k dollar cars show up. They are still gonna have big motors that are stock bore and stroke that have big valves, lighter rotating assembly and 3 gear transmissions and they are still gonna have thousands in there efi fuel injections. It will be interesting.
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I agree Scott on that but, if the organizations or series DO NOT do their job and TECH these motors and make a HARSH enough penalty like done for 2-3 races and convinscate the illegle parts along with promoters WORKING together to form a UNIVERSAL set of rules so a racer can go ANY WHERE HE CHOSES to races. Bill May and I are trying to do just that. Work together. When you do that the sky is the limit. case in point that is how this country was created PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER not aganist each other. So now the Division II midgets are born!!! Non wing and oh god do I have to say it.....WWWWing ...ok I said it it ...SASTIFIED!!!!!!!!!!...LOL:5:

Ditching the wings is the best thing we could do.

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Will division 2 ban Engler or any injection.

Andy

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
Ditching the wings is the best thing we could do.

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Will division 2 ban Engler or any injection.

Andy

CLARIFICATION ON INJECTION RULE PLEASE!!!!

We have several groups that have seen fit to ban the Engler injection systems. My question is that a ban on Engler Injection systems because Tim Engler is a slimmey snake in the grass? Is That a ban on all mechanical type injection systems visa vice Hilborne, Kinsler, etc. ? If it is the later that is fine if it is the former I would expect a restraint of trade argument some day.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
Ditching the wings is the best thing we could do.

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Will division 2 ban Engler or any injection.

Andy

Our BIGGEST concern is as Dad says it is cheaper to buy a used engine then rebuild....Corralla Rods are $1600 a set + pistons and risk pins along with rings it is over 2 grand then all the "SPECIAL" work while you are in there can lead up to MAJOR bucks...Cycle Image of Jacksonville just built a Track Bike GSXR 1000 with "ALL" the goodies internally and it was $8500.00 THAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN!!!

We need "CHEAP STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BIKE" engines..My engine (stock on gas..87 octane) in the 92 is going on 3 years now and 45 races...the compession has not dropped but 5% and it is BONE STOCK but we do not run BIG 1/2 miles or WINGS...both are motor killers.

So I have no problem with Mechcanial injection at this time...if it is proven an advantage over "STOCK" TB we would add a % of weight...problem solved....STOCK ENGINES at a later date we conould possibly og to STOCK TB...41mm thoat and STOCK height....easily checked go or no go

The rule way back on page one says "stock".....I would assume that all aftermarket are illegal even though it specifies Engler.

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Re: meeting
 

I think the rule is meant for all mechanical injection. Everyone just associates engler though as its the main hitter right now and as far as i know really the only one to make a setup for these. I could be wrong as im sure others have them.

I do believe though that we need to stay away from the big 1/2 and 3/8 mile tracks. sure you can run them once or twice and get away with no motor problem but you cant run weekly or once a month. I agree also with DAD on the fact that once you split these cases your reliabilty is out the window. We just cant seem to build them again like they do at the factory.

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Originally Posted by Papa Outlaw:
Our BIGGEST concern is as Dad says it is cheaper to buy a used engine then rebuild....Corralla Rods are $1600 a set + pistons and risk pins along with rings it is over 2 grand then all the "SPECIAL" work while you are in there can lead up to MAJOR bucks...Cycle Image of Jacksonville just built a Track Bike GSXR 1000 with "ALL" the goodies internally and it was $8500.00 THAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN!!!

We need "CHEAP STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BIKE" engines..My engine (stock on gas..87 octane) in the 92 is going on 3 years now and 45 races...the compession has not dropped but 5% and it is BONE STOCK but we do not run BIG 1/2 miles or WINGS...both are motor killers.

So I have no problem with Mechcanial injection at this time...if it is proven an advantage over "STOCK" TB we would add a % of weight...problem solved....STOCK ENGINES at a later date we conould possibly og to STOCK TB...41mm thoat and STOCK height....easily checked go or no go

I think that maybe Papa Outlaw has been hanging around them Florida four legged race tracks with them oat burner racers too much "WEIGHT" you got to be kidding me.

Stock is better!!! Stock rods in a motor producing somewhere around stock rated horsepower will last a long time, especially on smaller tracks. Now if you get the compression up around 14.5-16 to 1 you got a different animal. Cylinder pressure increases exponentially and you have invented a bomb. The goal of an engine builder is to increase the cylinder pressure without going over the limit, thus the need for fancy rods and super duty forged pistons.

I have yet to see a stock compression ratio aftermarket piston. That would be a special order item from JE or Wisco. How much do you want to bet our Kansas friends will order a special stock compression ratio piston to replace that old 20,000 mile stock piston in their rebuild.

Horsepower is a factor of VE "Volumetric Efficiency". The more Fuel and "AIR" you can cram in the cylinder and the tighter you can compress it the bigger the bang is going to be and the more horsepower you will make. Our engines were designed to work right at the limits the engineers wanted them to work in. The rods are not too big, excess weight and not to small too light for the designed parameters. The same holds true for pistons and crankshafts. If you exceed the VE designed by the engineers and you get a much larger charge in the cylinder you will experience major problems.

Scott it is unlikely your porting will reach this limit, but if you also throw in bigger valves and a little more radical cam and springs you may very well cross the line, now you will need them super rods and since you went that far you might as well throw in some high compression pistons as well. Now according to MMSA you are a cheater, and we can see all that stuff with a snooper scope.
So don't get carried away.

About the only thing mechanical injection will do is squirt a whole lot of fuel in the cylinder, by doing this you add to the cooling affects of methanol, you also add to the methanol content of your oil pan. It will not increase VE one iota thus no more HORSEPOWER. In fact with electronic injection the atomization affect of the high pressure , We use about 70-75 PSI better breaks down the the fuel for better combustion, and those little "shower" injectors on top actally act as an air conditioner for the intake charge on them hot Indiana summer evenings.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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I keep reading the words high dollar teams. three owner/drivers on here with the older bigger engines are not high dollar teams with 25,000 dollar cars. I think two of us are new. Yes we have three cars at my shop 1 belongs to my son and 1 is mine the other is owned by me and is for my son-in-law. None of our cars are high dollar and only one has a bigger engine an old 98 GSXR 1074 with kinsler injection. We do have 2 injection systems one kinsler and one hilborn. I have another friend who we just got into this and he is not a high dollar team. I do have another friend who has Engler injection he also is no high dollar team. He has decided to sell his car and thats sad. If a newer 1000 cant run with my old tired 1074 you dont have much of an engine. I just hate to see people keep trying to get stuff banned this is racing Lets race and may the best driver win. Im 50 years old im just out to have fun and try my best to win a race or two again. This is not about money glory or moving on to nascar. This is about members of my family spending time together and meeting new people at the track and something for any of my 5 grandkids that want to to get into. I have met quite a few people over the last couple of years of going to the track that i now call friends. I have also bought quite a few parts as well as my car and my engine right here from members. again not a high dollar team but if you want to buy my car for 25,000 i will even bring it to your shop for free lol. Im not hating on Waynesfield they can do want they want and i respect that but do we need several series that are the same. I would love to see an open winged series and non wing more restricted series ie: 1000 stock and the montpelier/ Div 2 type class. Then people can run all or choose what they want to run. But i hate to see every series just start baning cars and people just saying screw it i will just go fishing. JMO We would love to run at some of the other tracks that the series run at but if not we know places that we are welcome at. Im pretty sure prolly every driver on here could run with the three drivers on here with older engines that you all think are something. Two of us are 50 and over. come on guys most of you are half our age we need somthing lol.

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by pjohnson:
I keep reading the words high dollar teams. three owner/drivers on here with the older bigger engines are not high dollar teams with 25,000 dollar cars. I think two of us are new. Yes we have three cars at my shop 1 belongs to my son and 1 is mine the other is owned by me and is for my son-in-law. None of our cars are high dollar and only one has a bigger engine an old 98 GSXR 1074 with kinsler injection. We do have 2 injection systems one kinsler and one hilborn. I have another friend who we just got into this and he is not a high dollar team. I do have another friend who has Engler injection he also is no high dollar team. He has decided to sell his car and thats sad. If a newer 1000 cant run with my old tired 1074 you dont have much of an engine. I just hate to see people keep trying to get stuff banned this is racing Lets race and may the best driver win. Im 50 years old im just out to have fun and try my best to win a race or two again. This is not about money glory or moving on to nascar. This is about members of my family spending time together and meeting new people at the track and something for any of my 5 grandkids that want to to get into. I have met quite a few people over the last couple of years of going to the track that i now call friends. I have also bought quite a few parts as well as my car and my engine right here from members. again not a high dollar team but if you want to buy my car for 25,000 i will even bring it to your shop for free lol. Im not hating on Waynesfield they can do want they want and i respect that but do we need several series that are the same. I would love to see an open winged series and non wing more restricted series ie: 1000 stock and the montpelier/ Div 2 type class. Then people can run all or choose what they want to run. But i hate to see every series just start baning cars and people just saying screw it i will just go fishing. JMO We would love to run at some of the other tracks that the series run at but if not we know places that we are welcome at. Im pretty sure prolly every driver on here could run with the three drivers on here with older engines that you all think are something. Two of us are 50 and over. come on guys most of you are half our age we need somthing lol.

No problem make age rule 18-32. Them that are too young grow up first. Them that are too old get out of your 4th childhood and move on.:3: :5::3:;)after 65 some of us just stay in that last childhood?


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Lol 4th childhood heck yeah thats how i plan to outlive my grankids lol. Im 50 and for the most part dont feel old in any way. I can make young kids puff in the fire dept and can still stay up with most. See the key is your mind think young lol. I have went through two bad fights with cancer and beat the heck out of it now im goiung through a 12 hour recontruction surgery that will involve a neck trach and feeding tube in March that would make most young guys run. I will be starting my 5th childhood in may i hope. Yes the Doctors think im crazy but they love it. Im not growing older just better and wiser. lol o ya forgot i do it all with just one arm cancer took the other one but i never gave up anything and i never give up. Just got one really strong arm

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18 to 32 man i got to fight that rule now lol

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Originally Posted by pjohnson:
Lol 4th childhood heck yeah thats how i plan to outlive my grankids lol. Im 50 and for the most part dont feel old in any way. I can make young kids puff in the fire dept and can still stay up with most. See the key is your mind think young lol. I have went through two bad fights with cancer and beat the heck out of it now im goiung through a 12 hour recontruction surgery that will involve a neck trach and feeding tube in March that would make most young guys run. I will be starting my 5th childhood in may i hope. Yes the Doctors think im crazy but they love it. Im not growing older just better and wiser. lol o ya forgot i do it all with just one arm cancer took the other one but i never gave up anything and i never give up. Just got one really strong arm

That is quite odd >>That is exactly how I felt at "FIFTY":D Allen Ruppenthal raced well into his 60's and gave them punk kids hell!!:6:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Originally Posted by suzuki756:
wow. No engler injection I only know one person that has that system looks like picking on one person to me. that system is no faster than any other mechanical injection. 25 lbs different for gas to alky crazy that's great if you have 100lb driver. glad I sold my mini stuff had to get out while stuff still worth something.
to many track favorites with different rules for them.

IM still working on that weight thing!!!!!

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Ok i need someone who knows to clarify a rules question. Looking at AMSA's website it says 2013 rules under engine it appears to be the old rule other than no new ZX12 engines. So my question is there the AMSA/Waynesfield rules then the old rules for the other 4 Amsa races? i'm confused

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by pjohnson:
Ok i need someone who knows to clarify a rules question. Looking at AMSA's website it says 2013 rules under engine it appears to be the old rule other than no new ZX12 engines. So my question is there the AMSA/Waynesfield rules then the old rules for the other 4 Amsa races? i'm confused

That, Mr. Johnson, is precisiely why I got involved in this thread in the first place; if the 1000cc, no mechanical injection rules are Waynesfield ONLY, and AMSA is planning some non-wing shows elsewhere using the rules as stated on their website, then have at it. I was looking for clarification of that one point. What is the plan for the AMSA for the dates now listed as TBA?
This is not a slam, or a complaint, or whining; just a question about seemingly conflicting information.
Been a fun read, though...:44:

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by pjohnson:
Ok i need someone who knows to clarify a rules question. Looking at AMSA's website it says 2013 rules under engine it appears to be the old rule other than no new ZX12 engines. So my question is there the AMSA/Waynesfield rules then the old rules for the other 4 Amsa races? i'm confused

My Guess? TBA races will be at Logansport Indiana with old AMSA rules. But in the end Jerry calls the shots for AMSA.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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It is my understanding AMSA is going to adopt the 1000cc rule period. That being said, i think this is a typo in the rules:

Motor
The motor must be a 4-cycle motorcycle engine with 1205cc maximum, and must be self-starting by the driver while seated. Cars can only be pushed to start in case of mechanical failure with approval by Jerry Tague for that event. It must be corrected by the next event.

Jerry will need to advise.

Tim is literally the nicest guy I know, true success story, and a Indiana based business. He makes a great product and has excellent customer service... Everyone here is scared of what they don't know. The system is an old technology, made with durable components that will last for years..
My question is.... Lets say I just bought a complete Rosson for my 2006 gsxr, r1, Honda, zx10 whatever... In 2 years I decide I want a 2008 version... Motors get hard to find and manafactures make a new version on a new platform every two years. So people with gsxrs will your 06 alky injection work with the 08 engine how bout that $300 power comander, harness or the $400 injectors.

In two years you bought a 2010 will it work with any of that stuff.. Nope so in 6 years your buying 3 systems and at least 6 fuel pumps that are pushing alky and not made for it ..

One mechanical system can be used on any year of bike engine and on any type of engine.. If you have a r1 and you go to Suzuki no big deal. Simple adapters can make the change to anything you want.. The injection stops when the motor stops which is key for safety and there is (6) wires req to run the system.. No more buying harnesses to be cut down .. If you blow an engine you can buy a bare engine for hundreds less than a car kit.. It absolutely cost less than efi in the long run.. These rules are bs, in the since you are penalizing the guy who shows the goods on the outside of the motor, and making rules for guys who spend thousands on the inside... Add weight to mechanical injected cars, don't penalize them because a Foz with a 06 suzuki and a good driver made you look like you were tied to a concrete truck...

Make them weigh 1000... Banning just hurts an already bad car count...

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Originally Posted by DAD:
IM still working on that weight thing!!!!!

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Scotty is down to 150 and needs a ride in ocala !

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Originally Posted by cwhipple:
It is my understanding AMSA is going to adopt the 1000cc rule period. That being said, i think this is a typo in the rules:

Motor
The motor must be a 4-cycle motorcycle engine with 1205cc maximum, and must be self-starting by the driver while seated. Cars can only be pushed to start in case of mechanical failure with approval by Jerry Tague for that event. It must be corrected by the next event.

Jerry will need to advise.

That's a pretty big typo given all the discussion that had gone on before the 2013 rules were posted on the AMSA site; my hope is that's not the case and that Dad's educated guess is right. Love to give Logansport a shot.

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
Scotty is down to 150 and needs a ride in ocala !

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My right leg weighs more than that!!

Which brings me back to another pet peeve!! Why should someone have to stick their damned finger down their throat in order to be light enough to race a damned little race car, that's for horse racing! It really peeves me off watching cars going back and forth to the scale trying to add that last ounce to make race weight.

I got a better idea. Lets only allow weighing until after the main event if you are too light "NEXT"!!!!! I see where one guy sold out and I bet a lot of that was because of weight problems.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Originally Posted by jjones752:
That's a pretty big typo given all the discussion that had gone on before the 2013 rules were posted on the AMSA site; my hope is that's not the case and that Dad's educated guess is right. Love to give Logansport a shot.

Amsa BYLAWS

A.M.S.A. Lightning Sprints (hereinto referred to as A.M.S.A.) is a Limited Liability Corporation created solely for the purpose of promoting a 1000 cc class of Mini Sprints in the Midwest. Whereas all owners and members will strive to uphold to it’s highest level the respectability and standards of excellence for the Association. Whereas all members will strive to follow all rules and regulations set forth by the Administrators.

Taken from page one of PDF rules.

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Re: meeting
 

I dont see the problem with engler injection and all of that? Big money teams dont keep me from racing. I just enjoy racing even if im broke and can barely afford to drive their and get in. Lets quit the bickering and GO RACING BOYS!!!!

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Originally Posted by cwhipple:
Amsa BYLAWS

A.M.S.A. Lightning Sprints (hereinto referred to as A.M.S.A.) is a Limited Liability Corporation created solely for the purpose of promoting a 1000 cc class of Mini Sprints in the Midwest. Whereas all owners and members will strive to uphold to it’s highest level the respectability and standards of excellence for the Association. Whereas all members will strive to follow all rules and regulations set forth by the Administrators.

Taken from page one of PDF rules.


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"Motor
The motor must be a 4-cycle motorcycle engine with 1205cc maximum"

Taken from page two; there's still a disparity that needs to be corrected one way or the other. Until Mr. Tague, who is apparently the sole spokesman for the AMSA (according to the rulebook), weighs in, it's still unclear.

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
"Motor
The motor must be a 4-cycle motorcycle engine with 1205cc maximum"

Taken from page two; there's still a disparity that needs to be corrected one way or the other. Until Mr. Tague, who is apparently the sole spokesman for the AMSA (according to the rulebook), weighs in, it's still unclear.

That "NO V TYPE Motors" was made for me. That's what I got for talking about Aprilia Motorcycles.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Originally Posted by DAD:
My right leg weighs more than that!!

Which brings me back to another pet peeve!! Why should someone have to stick their damned finger down their throat in order to be light enough to race a damned little race car, that's for horse racing! It really peeves me off watching cars going back and forth to the scale trying to add that last ounce to make race weight.

I got a better idea. Lets only allow weighing until after the main event if you are too light "NEXT"!!!!! I see where one guy sold out and I bet a lot of that was because of weight problems.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I at 180 lbs. Thanks

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Originally Posted by scott bradley1x:
I at 180 lbs. Thanks

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The average weight of the American male is 195 lbs. the mode is somewhat higher. Good thing they don't charge pilots by the pound, that would be expensive air freight.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Never thought i would see mechanical injection banned because they think its better than EFI if anything should be the other way you can do much more with efi stuff than most know its just knowing how to do it and anyone with a laptop that knows anything can make changes in seconds to not just fuel system . Mechanical all you have really is bypasses for fuel.i think its the wrong way they are going.

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i hope after surgery i can get below 200lbs. I have even stopped eating reeces and thats just wrong. Making a 1000lbs with me and my car wont be hard

Re: meeting
 

Originally Posted by suzuki756:
Never thought i would see mechanical injection banned because they think its better than EFI if anything should be the other way you can do much more with efi stuff than most know its just knowing how to do it and anyone with a laptop that knows anything can make changes in seconds to not just fuel system . Mechanical all you have really is bypasses for fuel.i think its the wrong way they are going.

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THAT IS JUST HOW RACERS THINK???????:17:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Originally Posted by pjohnson:
I keep reading the words high dollar teams. three owner/drivers on here with the older bigger engines are not high dollar teams with 25,000 dollar cars. I think two of us are new. Yes we have three cars at my shop 1 belongs to my son and 1 is mine the other is owned by me and is for my son-in-law. None of our cars are high dollar and only one has a bigger engine an old 98 GSXR 1074 with kinsler injection. We do have 2 injection systems one kinsler and one hilborn. I have another friend who we just got into this and he is not a high dollar team. I do have another friend who has Engler injection he also is no high dollar team. He has decided to sell his car and thats sad. If a newer 1000 cant run with my old tired 1074 you dont have much of an engine. I just hate to see people keep trying to get stuff banned this is racing Lets race and may the best driver win. Im 50 years old im just out to have fun and try my best to win a race or two again. This is not about money glory or moving on to nascar. This is about members of my family spending time together and meeting new people at the track and something for any of my 5 grandkids that want to to get into. I have met quite a few people over the last couple of years of going to the track that i now call friends. I have also bought quite a few parts as well as my car and my engine right here from members. again not a high dollar team but if you want to buy my car for 25,000 i will even bring it to your shop for free lol. Im not hating on Waynesfield they can do want they want and i respect that but do we need several series that are the same. I would love to see an open winged series and non wing more restricted series ie: 1000 stock and the montpelier/ Div 2 type class. Then people can run all or choose what they want to run. But i hate to see every series just start baning cars and people just saying screw it i will just go fishing. JMO We would love to run at some of the other tracks that the series run at but if not we know places that we are welcome at. Im pretty sure prolly every driver on here could run with the three drivers on here with older engines that you all think are something. Two of us are 50 and over. come on guys most of you are half our age we need somthing lol.

I just turned 31 and I'm a very low budget owner/driver/tuner/grunt/hauler.... Lol I have no shame in this and admit that my car is rust oleum detailed and old school oil cooled. Total cost rolling on the track to have a blast------>$5100
Bottom line is that we ALL do this to enjoy life, have fun, and meet good people who love doing the same thing. No matter what the rules are, someone with deep pockets will justify spending a large fortune to be up front or at least try. Here's to a great 2013 season for everyone and I wish all the best to everyone and may your clothes get stained with track clay and may the beer be ice cold......;)

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Originally Posted by PatrickMead#13:
I just turned 31 and I'm a very low budget owner/driver/tuner/grunt/hauler.... Lol I have no shame in this and admit that my car is rust oleum detailed and old school oil cooled. Total cost rolling on the track to have a blast------>$5100
Bottom line is that we ALL do this to enjoy life, have fun, and meet good people who love doing the same thing. No matter what the rules are, someone with deep pockets will justify spending a large fortune to be up front or at least try. Here's to a great 2013 season for everyone and I wish all the best to everyone and may your clothes get stained with track clay and may the beer be ice cold......;)

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Heck of a wheelie you're pullin there, Pat; I think that you must have one of them killer motors in there, like my high-dollar Unobtanium Special.:15:

I'm looking forward to you and me running for best in class at Montpelier...
PS, disregard the fancy paint job; somebody told me those purple flames (Scallops? Flallops?) add 5 MPH on the straights, so I'm sanding them off. Don't want to embarass all of the full midgets as I blow by...:22:

Good looking rides...

Hey dad, back in the day of puddle jumpers I was figuring weight and balance of our passenger load. When I asked weights a rather large lady refused to answer and then told me 165...which I knew was BS... The next guy who was barely 160 told me he weighed 355. I told him that he didn't look it, he said I'm not dying in this s$itbox today!

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Originally Posted by jjones752:
Heck of a wheelie you're pullin there, Pat; I think that you must have one of them killer motors in there, like my high-dollar Unobtanium Special.:15:

I'm looking forward to you and me running for best in class at Montpelier...
PS, disregard the fancy paint job; somebody told me those purple flames (Scallops? Flallops?) add 5 MPH on the straights, so I'm sanding them off. Don't want to embarass all of the full midgets as I blow by...:22:

That's what I get for filling the chassis and tires with helium.....lol

I just hope they don't start checking fuels because I cheat and add 2 ounces of bullshitomium before every race. That's good for 5 smiles per gallon and 20 horsepower I've been told.....;)

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Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
Good looking rides...

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Patrick's is pretty sanitary, mine'll be prettier come April.
Assuming I don't get Carpal Tunnel from all the sanding...

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Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
Good looking rides...

Hey dad, back in the day of puddle jumpers I was figuring weight and balance of our passenger load. When I asked weights a rather large lady refused to answer and then told me 165...which I knew was BS... The next guy who was barely 160 told me he weighed 355. I told him that he didn't look it, he said I'm not dying in this s$itbox today!

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That's a lot better than that PISS_ANTE joke. Probably her husband?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Car looks really good. I like the scheme.

Originally Posted by DAD:
THAT IS JUST HOW RACERS THINK???????:17:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

It's not the racers we have no input in this stuff its the promotors not thinking it thru. You have a few people getting banned for older technology. Because they get beat a wrp from one guy well i raced the same clown every weekend when he had EFI stuff guess what he still beat us. So i think you should just ban him because they know how to set a car up and he is ok at driving but not the best i have seen

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Originally Posted by cwhipple:
Car looks really good. I like the scheme.

Thanks man

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Not to throw a sour grape but a mini sprint/lightning sprint/midget sprint fellow racers lost EVERYTHING in a shop fire yesterday..Kevin Roberts and Kevin Roberts Jr. both had plans to come to Florida....go to Kevins FB page for the full story
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001452586663