Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Thank you for proving my point Don. Your disclaimer says you dont know the entire rule, but you still title your post, New Unfriendly Fan Rule. Why not title it, Need Enlightened On New Rule. Or, Whats Your Opinion On New Rule? You cant bash something and then back out because you put a disclaimer on it. I know you say you are done with this, but why not tell us your opinion now that you have heard the rule, understand the point of the rule and what it could lead to in the future. This wasnt a personal attack on you Don, but I am tired of post after post about something that people dont know the facts.

SpfldMile. Please read my earlier post about why this rule was started. I think my PA swing is a good example. If I am a promoter and I have the big dogs, as you call them, show up when Im paying say $1500 to win, why would I have USAC? Now if Im a promoter and I see a track down the street that has all the big dogs, the place is packed, thats gonna make me want to have a USAC race.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

I was trying to reframe from posting to this topic but SANDY LOWE made a comment in a previous post directed towards us, ( Twin Cities Raceway Park). Her words are in bold type below:

"Why should USAC give bonus money to a midget driver that will run a POWRi midget race the same night as a USAC midget race? Why should USAC give bonus money to a sprint driver that will run an open competition sprint race at Vernon the same night as a USAC sprint race at Eldora?

If a promoter wants a USAC show they should pay for a USAC show. Not just benefit because the USAC drivers are in the neighborhood the day before. This should help drivers in the long run by USAC being able to secure larger purses for its competitors."

First of all Mason and I run Sprint shows for Sprint Drivers and Sprints Fans. Secondly, Jason McCord of USAC told Mason last year he probably could get Vernon ( Twin Cities Raceway Park ) back on the schedule of Sprint Week. With numerous attempts, Mason was unsuccessful for getting back on the schedule. Mason has not wronged USAC in anyway. WE WANT TO HAVE A USAC event during Sprint Week. soooooo USAC, Here it is.....one last attempt.....Would you like to Sanction our Sprint Race on Tuesday July 13th? If not, the race will go on as scheduled.

Mason and I felt that everyone deserved to know THE TRUTH about not being a USAC sanctioned event during Sprint Week.

Don't forget...THE 2nd Annual "NO WAY OUT 40" paying $4000 to win is this Saturday April 3rd at TWIN CITIES RACEWAY PARK!

Mason & Tawnya Fleetwood
Twin Cities Raceway Park

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Jerry, I was thinking of a race in Jacksonville, IL a couple of years ago. It was on a Friday and it paid 6 grand to win. I don't remember if USAC ran the next night or not to be honest. Anyway, most of the USAC regulars were there. It was a great show, the place was jammed, and Dave Darland won. To me that was good for Dave, and it was good for a lot of local race fans. Some of them might have even wanted to go see some other USAC shows after they saw the type of talent that shows up. No, USAC didn't race there after that, but I don't know whose fault that was. You make good points, as do a lot of other people on here. I can see both sides. I just see it as unnecessary. After all, it's just a message board, what's wrong with a civil debate? Good luck this year Jerry!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by coondog:
Thank you for proving my point Don. Your disclaimer says you dont know the entire rule, but you still title your post, New Unfriendly Fan Rule. Why not title it, Need Enlightened On New Rule. Or, Whats Your Opinion On New Rule? You cant bash something and then back out because you put a disclaimer on it. I know you say you are done with this, but why not tell us your opinion now that you have heard the rule, understand the point of the rule and what it could lead to in the future. This wasnt a personal attack on you Don, but I am tired of post after post about something that people dont know the facts.

SpfldMile. Please read my earlier post about why this rule was started. I think my PA swing is a good example. If I am a promoter and I have the big dogs, as you call them, show up when Im paying say $1500 to win, why would I have USAC? Now if Im a promoter and I see a track down the street that has all the big dogs, the place is packed, thats gonna make me want to have a USAC race.

Jerry I hope this rule and the extra points money works out for all drivers and owners in the future.But to use the PA SWING as an example when they can't get 5 USAC dates in a row after 4 years. NO TRACK IN CENTRAL PA will have an un-sanction SPRINT CAR RACE.


WINGED 410 SPRINTS in Central PA pay at least 3 grand to win regular shows.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

For those still curious, this is the only info on the USAC site.... no dollar amounts..


Annual Point Fund

Owners Fund =50%

Top 10- Sprint Car Championship
Top 10- Midget Championship
Top 10- Silver Crown Championship
Top 3- Sprint Grip 2k10 Championship (pavement only)
Top 3- Sprint Dirt Drift 2k10 Championship (dirt only)
Top 3- Midget Grip 2k10 Championship (pavement only)
Top 3- Midget Dirt Drift 2k10 Championship (dirt only)
Top 3- Eastern swing Sprint Week
Top 3- Indiana Sprint Week

Drivers Fund =50%

Top 10- National Drivers Championship 2k10
Top 3- Sprint Car Championship
Top 3- Midget Championship
Top 3 Silver Crown Championship

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

If USAC would take the extra point money and pay modern day purses instead of 1970's purses this rule would be a mute point. They would get all the name drivers at all their races because most guys would not need to race every possible local show to make a living. If these guys could make real money most would love to not have to race 100 plus shows a year to barely get by. This stupid rule is just their way of trying to grasp on to what little they have left.
Pay real purses and their stars wouldn't stray

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Uh, Uh, Uh, I guess I really don't know, Uh, Uh, UH

Thanks for posting Jerry

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

At first glance I had a problem with this rule... Now after looking at it I can see why USAC has implemented it. If the drivers want the bonus money they should be at the USAC shows.

However, I also think that the whole 24 hours before and after a race is pure BS.....why does it matter if a driver races a USAC race on Saturday lets say and then their is a POWRi or local show on Friday and Sunday nearby? Why shouldn't they be able to run the other 2 days and try to make more money.

All in all the rule makes since....but the whole 24 hour either way does not make since....unless I am looking at it wrong:11:

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

twincitiespr,

The 2nd sentence that you quoted from my post was not directed at you (or your track) but tracks in general.

I don't have a problem with drivers and owners making their own decisions on where to race. I also do not have a problem with fans making their own decisions about which tracks to attend. Your track upped the purse on Saturday to make your show more enticing to race teams. USAC came up with the National Championship point fund to make their races more tempting to their drivers/teams. IMHO your race on Saturday night will not be affected at all by this new point fund. That is why I did not think it was a problem using "Vernon" in my post.

I don't know anything about your dealings with USAC. My comments were about the new USAC point fund.

Sandy

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

Casey,

I just found this a few minutes ago on USAC's site with some dollar amounts ($116,000 total):

National Drivers Championship 2K10
Leader Board

- Standings Points Payout
1- Jerry Coons Jr......326 pts...$40,000
2- Tracy Hines.........324 pts...$20,000
3- Bryan Clauson......296 pts...$15,000
4- Levi Jones...........236 pts...$12,500
5- Damion Gardner....234 pts...$10,000
6- Dave Darland.......232 pts.....$7,500
7- Henry Clarke........220 pts.....$5,000
8- Bobby East..........219 pts.....$3,000
9- Brad Sweet..........204 pts.....$2,000
10-Robert Ballou.......150 pts.....$1,000

http://www.usacracing.com/ndc

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Topless77:
If USAC would take the extra point money and pay modern day purses instead of 1970's purses this rule would be a mute point. They would get all the name drivers at all their races because most guys would not need to race every possible local show to make a living. If these guys could make real money most would love to not have to race 100 plus shows a year to barely get by. This stupid rule is just their way of trying to grasp on to what little they have left.
Pay real purses and their stars wouldn't stray

This is a sentiment I have heard from a few. Let's think about this, though. There's $116,000 in this fund - break that down among an 80-race schedule, and the addition to each race wouldn't even be noticeable.

The idea of this is to add value to the USAC program. By having this fund, it gives drivers an extra reason to support the shows. This is just the starting point...they're launching it with a six-figure point fund, but it has room to grow from here. The idea would be to show that these races are strongly supported and can make tracks money, and then purses will go up from there. Putting the money into the purses now (btw, the tracks pay the purses, not USAC) would have no long-term effects. Guys would feel no allegiance to that - as well as I know the racers, they would race for a little more money in those shows and go right back to racing for peanuts the next night.

Remember, this fund and rule is not stopping anyone from racing anywhere they want to - if someone does not want to race for the NDC money, they are not forced to. There are just a few simple rules to follow for those who want to race for the big money. Hopefully things can go up from here and the numbers will only get bigger in years to come...

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
This is a sentiment I have heard from a few. Let's think about this, though. There's $116,000 in this fund - break that down among an 80-race schedule, and the addition to each race wouldn't even be noticeable.

The idea of this is to add value to the USAC program. By having this fund, it gives drivers an extra reason to support the shows. This is just the starting point...they're launching it with a six-figure point fund, but it has room to grow from here. The idea would be to show that these races are strongly supported and can make tracks money, and then purses will go up from there. Putting the money into the purses now (btw, the tracks pay the purses, not USAC) would have no long-term effects. Guys would feel no allegiance to that - as well as I know the racers, they would race for a little more money in those shows and go right back to racing for peanuts the next night.

Remember, this fund and rule is not stopping anyone from racing anywhere they want to - if someone does not want to race for the NDC money, they are not forced to. There are just a few simple rules to follow for those who want to race for the big money. Hopefully things can go up from here and the numbers will only get bigger in years to come...

Again, USAC thinks they are more important than any other organization and that arrogant self image does nothing but push people away.

Kirk, you and USAC are perfect for each other: both arrogant.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

I haven't seen this mentioned but I believe this new rule could run afoul of Indiana state law. Indiana has a "right to work" law which came up years ago when usac tried to pull this same scam. I am not interested enough to look up the details of the law but some of you people might want to check it out.
mac miller in INDY

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by mac miller:
I haven't seen this mentioned but I believe this new rule could run afoul of Indiana state law. Indiana has a "right to work" law which came up years ago when usac tried to pull this same scam. I am not interested enough to look up the details of the law but some of you people might want to check it out.
mac miller in INDY

I also not interested enough to look it up, but I don't think that the law would apply. All drivers/car owners are assumed to be independent contractors.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

I think Don Moore's posts wasted a lot of cyberspace!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
This is a sentiment I have heard from a few. Let's think about this, though. There's $116,000 in this fund - break that down among an 80-race schedule, and the addition to each race wouldn't even be noticeable.

USAC sure went 'all out' on this point fund. :3:

Doing the math ($116,000/80 races), they are paying out a whopping $1,450 per race, and demanding loyalty from 'private contractors' :14:

How will this huge $1,450 per race bonus be distributed/broken down?

If they wanted loyalty within 200 miles, on nights USAC was racing...I can understand.

But who the hell is USAC to tell somebody where/when they can race, on an 'OFF' night??

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Need For Speed:
USAC sure went 'all out' on this point fund. :3:

Doing the math ($116,000/80 races), they are paying out a whopping $1,450 per race, and demanding loyalty from 'private contractors' :14:

How will this huge $1,450 per race bonus be distributed/broken down?

If they wanted loyalty within 200 miles, on nights USAC was racing...I can understand.

But who the hell is USAC to tell somebody where/when they can race, on an 'OFF' night??

I'll try to get the point across one more time.

This money is being supplied by the United States Auto Club. Six figures worth of money is nothing to sneeze at - especially in our sport where we regularly race for a thousand bucks to win. This is an attempt by them to do what the drivers have been screaming for - pay out more money!! And by doing it in this way, there is a path to having a more valuable program that will have tracks willing to pay more money, and it is also a way to attract more sponsors.

Under Miller's reign, USAC has already boosted standard purses in the Sprint Car & Midget division. That was the first time that had happened in USAC in a VERY long time.

The payout for the NDC is listed above. This is big money and an important carrot for those drivers who choose to follow it.

Because they are the ones providing the money, they are allowed to employ some stipulations. Am I understanding this right that USAC should pay out $40,000 to someone who has skipped their races for others, or watered down his own sport so it loses value? Do you think USAC races should pay much better, and a track owner should be willing to pay that, just to see those same drivers race the next night, right down the road, for a fraction of the purse?

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
I'll try to get the point across one more time.

This money is being supplied by the United States Auto Club. Six figures worth of money is nothing to sneeze at - especially in our sport where we regularly race for a thousand bucks to win.

When was the last time USAC raced for $1,000 to win?? USAC is trying to protect itself from the weekly shows...cut the crap, and tell it like it is!

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
This is an attempt by them to do what the drivers have been screaming for - pay out more money!! And by doing it in this way, there is a path to having a more valuable program that will have tracks willing to pay more money, and it is also a way to attract more sponsors.

So will this be another 'dead end' program like the "Road to Indy" BS...

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
Under Miller's reign, USAC has already boosted standard purses in the Sprint Car & Midget division. That was the first time that had happened in USAC in a VERY long time.

What's been the hold up?

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
Because they are the ones providing the money, they are allowed to employ some stipulations. Am I understanding this right that USAC should pay out $40,000 to someone who has skipped their races for others, or watered down his own sport so it loses value? Do you think USAC races should pay much better, and a track owner should be willing to pay that, just to see those same drivers race the next night, right down the road, for a fraction of the purse?

Re-read my post...I understand some kind of a rule regarding skipping a USAC race if it's on the same night, within a certian distance.

But I think it's BS to be telling guys they get a penalty for running Gas City on a Friday night, AND/OR, Kokomo on a Sunday night, just because USAC has a race on a Saturday night within 200 miles of either track!! Hell, 200 miles from Indianapolis alone cuts a wide swath through non-wing sprint car land....move that starting point to a certian track, and 200 miles essentially wipes out any USAC guys running much of anywhere else.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Need For Speed:
When was the last time USAC raced for $1,000 to win?? USAC is trying to protect itself from the weekly shows...cut the crap, and tell it like it is!



So will this be another 'dead end' program like the "Road to Indy" BS...



What's been the hold up?



Re-read my post...I understand some kind of a rule regarding skipping a USAC race if it's on the same night, within a certian distance.

But I think it's BS to be telling guys they get a penalty for running Gas City on a Friday night, AND/OR, Kokomo on a Sunday night, just because USAC has a race on a Saturday night within 200 miles of either track!! Hell, 200 miles from Indianapolis alone cuts a wide swath through non-wing sprint car land....move that starting point to a certian track, and 200 miles essentially wipes out any USAC guys running much of anywhere else.

RE-READ THE RULE!!! Kokomo and Gas City run USAC shows and are therefore exempt from the rule. You are as bad as Don, you spout off about something without even taking the time to read the rule. :7:

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by racefan20:
RE-READ THE RULE!!! Kokomo and Gas City run USAC shows and are therefore exempt from the rule. You are as bad as Don, you spout off about something without even taking the time to read the rule. :7:

I don't believe I know you...............Consider that the next time you compare me to somebody else.

I did read the rule, I was using those two places as an example. Since you want to get smart..

USAC runs a sprint race at Lawrenceburg on April 17th...Waynesfield is also running non-wing sprints that night (and they don't have a USAC date)...according to Mapquest, the towns are 138.48 miles apart. The next night USAC runs a sprint race at Kokomo. Waynesfield is 124.19 miles from Kokomo, and the race is within 24 hours....so, a USAC guy better not show his face at Waynesfield at all that weekend! That=BS

Then, USAC races at Toledo July 2nd, the next night Waynesfield runs a non-wing sprint race. They are 90.76 miles apart. If somebody loads their pavement car, and dirt car in the trailer, and hits both races that weekend, they get a penalty. That=BS

That's just 2 instances, with 1 track..........sorry if that is too much for you to comprehend.

Most of the time, Don makes a lot of sense...but of course you know more than he does I'm sure..

BTW, how many midgets do you own? Or maybe you are a midget driver, or were?

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Two quick things: Why would anyone pursuing the National Driver's Championship skip a USAC Sprint Car race on dirt to race a dirt sprint car event elsewhere? Obviously, this will come up - the Pennsylvania trip, for example - but the draw of the NDC money is part of what will make guys want to race USAC races like those...

Also, there is a sentence in there that says permission could be granted on a race-by-race basis for those who ask. I guess we'll see if that comes up at all.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by kirk spridgeon:
i'll try to get the point across one more time.

This money is being supplied by the united states auto club. Six figures worth of money is nothing to sneeze at - especially in our sport where we regularly race for a thousand bucks to win. This is an attempt by them to do what the drivers have been screaming for - pay out more money!! And by doing it in this way, there is a path to having a more valuable program that will have tracks willing to pay more money, and it is also a way to attract more sponsors.

Under miller's reign, usac has already boosted standard purses in the sprint car & midget division. That was the first time that had happened in usac in a very long time.

The payout for the ndc is listed above. This is big money and an important carrot for those drivers who choose to follow it.

Because they are the ones providing the money, they are allowed to employ some stipulations. Am i understanding this right that usac should pay out $40,000 to someone who has skipped their races for others, or watered down his own sport so it loses value? Do you think usac races should pay much better, and a track owner should be willing to pay that, just to see those same drivers race the next night, right down the road, for a fraction of the purse?

ask tony jones about the point fund from usac????????????:26:

---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------

Originally Posted by kirk spridgeon:
two quick things: Why would anyone pursuing the national driver's championship skip a usac sprint car race on dirt to race a dirt sprint car event elsewhere? Obviously, this will come up - the pennsylvania trip, for example - but the draw of the ndc money is part of what will make guys want to race usac races like those...

Also, there is a sentence in there that says permission could be granted on a race-by-race basis for those who ask. I guess we'll see if that comes up at all.

do you get a check from usac? Or miller?:14::15:

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:

do you get a check from usac? Or miller?:14::15:

I already asked that and Kirk ignored me. I guess we know the truth by his silence.

Yet, he was voted "Race fan of the year":17:

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by outsider:
I already asked that and Kirk ignored me. I guess we know the truth by his silence.

Yet, he was voted "Race fan of the year":17:

He probably ignores you because you've displayed time and time again that it's pointless for anyone on here to have a rational discussion with you. You're biased against USAC. WE GET THAT!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by race2win:
He probably ignores you because you've displayed time and time again that it's pointless for anyone on here to have a rational discussion with you. You're biased against USAC. WE GET THAT!

Rational discussion? When one of those happen let me know. I have yet to see one on here. If a poster doesn't agree to everything they are written off as a you have done.

The arrogance of some people here is absolutely amazing. I never knew how small minded small track racing fans are.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Need For Speed:
I don't believe I know you...............Consider that the next time you compare me to somebody else.

I did read the rule, I was using those two places as an example. Since you want to get smart..

You are the one that used Gas City as an example, not me. I merely corrected your error. Using Waynesfield as an example is better but dont you think the other side of the coin is to entice Waynesfield to book a USAC race. And since when do I have to own a midget to have an opinion. Hope you have a happy Easter even though I dont agree with a thing you posted.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by racefan20:
You are the one that used Gas City as an example, not me. I merely corrected your error. Using Waynesfield as an example is better but dont you think the other side of the coin is to entice Waynesfield to book a USAC race. And since when do I have to own a midget to have an opinion. Hope you have a happy Easter even though I dont agree with a thing you posted.

Who knows if-when-why-why not, Waynesfield gets a USAC date. Either way, penalizing a guy for running a Waynesfield the night after USAC runs at Toledo (even when USAC doesn't have a sprint race scheduled for that day) is asinine!

I remember a few years ago, when Tom Bigelow was running Winchester for Charlie Shaw, they told USAC to 'forget it', and didn't schedule ANY USAC races (for at least that year) because USAC wanted to hit them with a double sanctioning fee and ins. for the Rich Vogler Memorial.

You blast Don Moore, and you act like he's not allowed to voice his opinion as a car owner, so I figured you must have a midget too. You seem to argue every point he makes about costs, etc.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

:24: