Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Thanks Bill I was wondering how to answer that.

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

They have been building AAA/USAC "specialty" championship cars as early as the late fifties. Maybe earlier. Roadsters for pavement and uprights for dirt. I even remember midget and sprint roadsters back in the golden era. So building specialty cars is not new by any means.

I do think changes need to be made. But IMO it would be a big mistake to eliminate pavement races. It's is what floats my boat. Please USAC, don't make me watch late models on pavement. On the other hand, I could always watch supers...:2:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

well thats what it takes to do it! So you now see why theres not more races! And a promoter can get the same drivers at a sprint car race for $30000 :22:

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 AM ----------

and they raced together dirt and pavement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

If a requiring HANS device and radios is enough to keep some drivers/teams from competing in USAC, then the requirement of a 'special frame'(to them) is surely enough. There are some folks that still won't buy the HANS just to run USAC. They appear to be happy with racing for less money. That, by definition, means that fewer cars are at any given USAC dirt sprint car show.

I erred by referencing FOXCO earlier:14:. What I SHOULD have said is the "Fox Boys". They, and plenty like them, run many MSCS, KISS, and weekly shows with their current equipment. It seems unlikely to me that very many would buy spec USAC frames, in addition to their current equipment, which would mean a reduced car count at USAC dirt sprint car races. Yes?

What does "fox had a roadster for pavement and a dirt sprint car!!!!!!!!!!! For years!!!!!!!!!!", have to do with anything? Isn't it your suggestion that this is the exactly the thing that should be done away with? The part that I'm not understanding, is how the "one car" philosophy would appease anyone, except the guy that is chosen to build and sell them. I feel that the well funded teams would immediately have dedicated USAC spec cars for dirt, and dedicated USAC spec cars for pavement, i.e. a stable of cars for one series, which is what we have now. Even though, they would all have to be 'the same frame'. In addition, I must say, that the "buy this car, or don't race USAC for more money" argument has a very familiar ring to it, e.g., the 2006 and 2007 USAC Silver Crown series.

People don't always agree on things, right? It's mostly all opintions anyway. I'm sure you'd agree that's it's okay to disagree. :32: See 'ya in Richmond!

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Hey, Vukie. I was talking to Bill Gardner at Vermillion County Speedway a couple of weeks ago. We were talking about some of the posters that we missed, that didn't post any more. You were at the top of the list. That list also included Lauren Besecker and Justin Hatten, to name a few.:8:

Jerry

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I saw Vukie at Danville a couple weeks back. It was nice to see him at a race again. Hope you make it down to Indiana soon, Russ!!

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

how long have you been racing? Do you own a car? The usac car would be the same car that you would run dirt & pavement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One car the same car!!!!!!!!!!!:15::15::15::15: What part don't you understand!:15:14::14:: It would save money to run the same car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :14:instead of having two different cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:15::

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

so whats your point? You have no more to say then that?:7:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I have been working on sprint cars for 20 years to pre-answer your future questioning of my qualifications to speak on this subject. I know exactly what he is saying. Even if you have a "spec" frame the teams with money are still going to build mutiple frames and "trick" them up a little for dirt by using lighter tubing in key locations to help them flex a little more.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

A) 19 years
B) No. Are car owners the only ones that get to have opinions? If so, how many cars do you own?
C) I understand that part.
D) So, nobody can own more than one?
E) The part I don't understand is how it would increase fan support of the pavement series while not damaging the dirt series at the same time.
F) THAT part I agree with.
G) Guys that run weekend shows most of the time, and USAC some of the time, WOULD have to have multiple cars to be competitive. A USAC legal car, and an open series car. By that, I mean that I think no way would a combo car compete with a current day production dirt sprint car.

Cheers:32:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I have been sitting on the sidelines on this one waiting to see where this would go. If I am not mistaken, the proposals to save USAC, the car owners and the entire sprint car way of life boils down to: One chassis for pavement and dirt, limit tires/wheel width to make horsepower a non-issue, have a tire company invent a super tire that never wears out and never slows down, increase purses so that racers can afford to race, race closer to home so that travel expenses can be reduced and get TV coverage to make everything better.

Now I hate to be the wet blanket here but there are always unintended consequences to these proposals and if it were really easy to implement them don’t you think they would have made the move by now?

Let’s talk one chassis for pavement and dirt; How do you police that? I saw on an earlier post that there would be a limit as to the engine set back, offset and wheelbase. What happens when a local (which we rely on heavily at the dirt tracks) wants to run USAC. Do they have to buy a special car that conforms to USAC specs? Do we all run dirt chassis on pavement? What dirt wheelbase/engine set back? Do locals that have a slightly different car get to run?

Same for the tire/wheel rule; Do you think local racers on a limited budget will step up and buy new wheels and a spec tires to run just the USAC shows? If you could get the WoO, All-Stars, MSCS and whatever other sanctions together and agree to limit the RR this would work. Without it this is a pipe dream. The reason USAC went to 410 was because it became the standard for sprint cars by the WoO and local tracks. USAC made the switch so that more cars could run with them not as the leader of a larger CID movement.

Now on to the tires. Yes they are a MAJOR expense for both large and small teams. I have begged for a one set limit for over 1 year and it has gone nowhere. We run 2 sets typically for each racing night because every time the tire undergoes a heat cycle (run on the track) it slows down a little. Not wears out, but slows down. Therefore if my car is going to have a shot at winning I have to bolt on new tires each time my competition does. If we all have only one set then there is no competitive disadvantage.

Before we hear from Don Moore, hard tires are not the answer either because they slow down just as much if not more. They also lack grip which means the cars will slide more in the corners. The reason there is not more passing on pavement is generally the grove is narrow and the drivers (well most anyway) don’t want to slide into another car while attempting to pass. Most of them have learned that open wheel to wheel contact is not good for their health or the car’s longevity especially on pavement.

I know that Hoosier contributes to the point fund for each tire sold. It is here that USAC can be of the biggest help to the participant by negotiating hard with ALL the tire manufacturers to obtain the best price and most money for the point fund. There should be full open disclosure of each bid to the competitors and the contract should be rebid each winter. I don’t care which brand wins the bid if everyone has to run the same tire.

Now I have been very outspoken in the past when a promoter makes a killing on a USAC race via the back gate. I also know that promoters don’t always pack the stands and they have expenses as well. Too many promoters fail to promote nowadays. I would like to see a return to the days of a percentage of the gate against a guaranteed minimum purse Part of the sanction fee paid to USAC would be set aside for track specific marketing. Additionally the promoters would be required to spend a certain amount advertising the USAC race in the local media. USAC could leverage a revamped marketing department to helping the promoter with advertising copy and media buys. This would make USAC, the participants AND the promoter partners in putting on a quality product and producing a profit for ALL.

As far as racing closer to home/on more weekends, I am all for that. I burn EVERY vacation day, personal day and sick day that I get at the bank to attend all the races on the USAC schedule. My wife is very upset that I have not gone on vacation with her and the kids in 4 years. Most of our past vacations centered around a race somewhere that I left for two days early or stayed after for a couple of days. But realize that when you limit the series to a local base you also limit your ability to attract national sponsors for the teams, the events and the all important television.

In conclusion, I think we all recognize there is a problem. But beware of some of the “easy” fixes proposed because they may create more problems than they solve. Most of you probably remember the push to put starters on midgets since that would make the series more fan and TV friendly. Sounded like a good idea and it had a noble purpose but it almost killed the series. We don’t need to go down that path again.

The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not necessarially reflect the opinions of my team or sponsors.

Rob Hoffman

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

(d) you could but its not a need! (e) you would have plenty of cars to race pavement! (g) ???????? Not sure! :22:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I think the key is to go back to racing on board tracks.

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

give me some of what ever your drinking or smoking!!!!!!!!!!!!:14::10:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I told them when they first went away from board tracks it was a big mistake, but nobody listened and look where we are today.
But after thinking about it, probably wouldn't work nowdays. Teams would just go to 3 cars, one for dirt, another for pavement, and a third for board tracks.

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

i think you should build a board track and see! :14:

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

i know you can build tire to repete! They don't have too!!!!!!!!!!! I sold larry dickson a rt. Rear that he won 3 races on a weekend! Grand rapids on fri toledo sat. And new breman sun. Afternoon! That tire was a firestone back then cost $75

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Where do you think a good spot for a board track would be?

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

easy solution... just eliminate the entire pavement series.:2:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

west 16st in indy 35oo block! Bring your hammer! And please stop hitting yourself in the head!:14:

---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

they are!!!!!!!!!!!! Then nascar irl will be racing on dirt!:8:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Thanks to Jerry and Bill for the nice thoughts. I'm sure that Dirty Sanchez was at the top of the list. A short and very brief posting career.

It was good seeing Spridge and his dad at Danville that night. Andrew, Jack, Mike and Leroy too. I made the trip down that evening with my spirtual advisor, Merrillville Al.

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

That is old school brave.

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Maybe next time I'll ride with this guy.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/48808217.html

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

same car on dirt and pavement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


DUKE! YOU POST THIS AGAIN AND I AM GONNA KILL MYSELF! WE CAN READ! SAME CAR ON DIRT AND PAVEMENTSAME CAR ON DIRT AND PAVEMENTSAME CAR ON DIRT AND PAVEMENTSAME CAR ON DIRT AND PAVEMENTSAME CAR ON DIRT AND PAVEMENTSAME CAR ON DIRT AND PAVEMENT:6:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Speaking of Merrillville Al, that's another good thing about Danville. There's almost always a pretty interesting cast of characters assembled there. And with several support classes, there's usually plenty of time to get to visit with them.

Jerry

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Is that you, Russ?

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I'm not sure who runs USAC. Is it Hoosier or USAC?? When I wanted to run a co-sanction race with the regional midget series they would not run with us even though we allowed American Racer and Hoosier in our Wolverine Series. DK promotions said he would get the race canceled if just one of us ran even one AR tire. I called USAC and they were not sure but called back later to say , yes they could get our race canceled. Hoosier could have our race canceled even though we accept both tires. Who really runs the show? Hoosier, and they are helping to ruin midget and sprint car racing in my opinion. The enormous cost for tires in comparison to start money will continue to kill our sport. Decisions are made on tire brand over what is best for midget racing overall. Remember, Hoosier does what is best for Hoosier not what is best for any series. They want to keep that 100% monopoly even if the numbers go down. I don't have an answer but if tire cost is not gotten under control, racing for the average guy is doomed

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Hi, Steve.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...7565/index.htm

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Ahhhh...:6: VUKIE IS BACK!! Good to see you posting again... :9:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

D) Then the well funded teams will have SEVERAL USAC spec cars, and the rest will complain, which is what we have now, IMO
E) Yes, but at the expense of damaging the USAC Dirt Sprint Series(reduced car counts), which is WORSE than what we have now. IMO

See 'ya at Richmond! Be careful in the heat. :32:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

load your gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For some reason some hoosier don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:15:

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

I have a fans perspective and a midget owners opinion. As a fan the only reason that fans have went away from midget & sprint racing is car counts. There is only a select few teams that show up every week to usac races. Others pick and chose what they can afford. Usacs biggest support is here in Indiana. It needs to be helped here first and then spread out over the country. Also getting usac back on tv would be great, but there is not chance of it making it right now with the state that its in. Car counts need to rise. The only way to gain cars is to bring more competition into the chassis builders, having more than just beast and somehow bringing the cost of parts down. I know what it costs to build the chassis's and engines and its a whole lot less than what all teams are paying. Someone is making good money!!!! Also add rules to make it more of a driver sport than who has the most money. Car counts would be bigger if they didnt have to run against high dollar tony stewart teams etc with much bigger funding....just opinions, i support usac i hope i gets back to what it was.

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

This is just my opinion...

Tires- 1) Try to cut a deal with hoosier to get the racers a better price. 2) Dirt OR Pavement you are only allowed to change LR for stagger in a night. Tires stamped after qualifying and only LR can be changed. 3) I would also go to a smaller tires to make the racing more than just money and horsepower

Chassis- I do not claim to know alot about chassis differences..but it seems to me that the focus series has a good thing going if they would race more dirt stuff. I had a buddy of mine get into that and he got a combo car....well then USAC had the whole year last year with no dirt focus races in the midwest ..... ANYWAY...my opinion would be to just run the dirt cars on pavement....do away with pavement cars all together that way you would not have to have a spec frame and kill the local racers.

I think this would bring car counts up due to less of a tire bill and more people run dirt midgets and sprints than run pavement stuff locally. JMO

Re: Pavement sprints & midgets
 

Well some agree and some attack what i say! And now there doing the same on kevin miller?????????