Re: Tire Dopers
 

Looks like the natives are restless and have cabin fever these days...YIKES!

Re: Tire Dopers
 

:44::deadhorse::44:

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Im starting to think this thread would have just been totally dissapeared in the Bill G days. Or the accusations removed and closed to further commenting.

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Why would the 5m have tires sampled when it missed both shows at Volusia?

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Testing Tires is like getting a COVID test....false positives....false negatives...just keep testing until you get the desired result. It all depends on the result your looking for. This I know...where there is smoke, there is always fire.

Like I said earlier, any time you can't test something at the track, you're burning daylight, people usually don't like reruns, and will doubt your qualifications.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

UOTE=TQ29m;550139]Like I said earlier, any time you can't test something at the track, you're burning daylight, people usually don't like reruns, and will doubt your qualifications.[/QUOTE]

I don't have a dog in the fight. I am not a driver, mechanic or car owner, just a fan who wants to see good racing without controversy.

It would seem to me that all this controversy about doping as well as mandatory tire brands specified by tracks or sanctioning bodies could be done away by with mandating a specific minimum durometer hardness. An official could walk down the line up chute and check it before qualifying, heat races and feature.

Or, tires could checked by the track at sign in and have a sticker applied.

At sign in teams could check their tester against the track's tester so they could check their tires at the shop or when they purchased them.

More suppliers would provide competition that would lower costs and as TQ29 says, it would happen in real time at the track.

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I honestly don't understand the mandated tire or at least brand rule. Sure someone is getting some $$ somewhere but it sure isnt the teams that used to have tire sponsorships that cut their yearly bill by significant amount

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I thought you said in a previous thread you were DONE. If you want to have political conversation/accusation or make just make dumb statements, freedom of speech allows you to do that. Please just do it on other forums. Thank you for understanding.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

I have a question. Is it fair to say USAC is a source? They have stated four teams failed the test but they failed to name them. Therefore giving more room for conjecture and speculation. This entire verbal battle about who heard what from whom could have ended if Usac stated who they were and what the penalty is. They then could have said there is an appeals process in which all four teams have entered. Stating that they all failed together the same way and we are going to look into this further before following normal procedure for such infraction, also leaves room for conjecture and speculation.
After reading all of these posts it appears most if not all have spoken to someone and have an idea about who did what. Getting upset at people for discussing their knowledge with refrain from stating sources but not calling out the sanction body for basically the same thing is detrimental to your point. Hopefully a solid decision is made before next Saturday. I know I’d be apprehensive about running the show if I had no faith that Usac was keeping things on a level field.

Not hiding behind a thing. Some know me and some don't. We've shared beers at small bar during the Gold Crown and watched the Cards when we rained out that night. If you've forgotten my handsome face, well that's not really my fault. I'm guessing you needed a Snickers today or the weather affected the mood. Either way I don't take it personal. I've thicker skin than that. I get the frustration of not knowing the teams and all, but that's not my info to post. USAC can do that.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

....by an open tire rule?

Ed, you have a good point. Don't get me wrong, sir. I just think that sometimes too many rules spoils the fun and clouds the air.

Excellent points. Don't always see eye to eye with your point of view, but you are spot on here.

So thankful for race fans. Without you many in the industry would it have a livelihood. To the question, who has been accused? Well Usac takes samples from the top 3 every night. So there’s 9 samples from Bubba **** park. Now if we break that down, how many of those 9 samples ran in the top 3 every night. Wow, now we are boiling it down. Now that we have answered that question let’s move on. The 4 questionable samples are the same via lab results. So either the teams are all using the same doper, or perhaps there’s an issue with tires or testing. All suspect right.
Let’s break it down further. If doping is brushed under the rug, how does it effect the tour? If penalties are levied how does it effect the tour? The only other series to my knowledge that uses the “medium” is ascs, they just had their first event of 2022, will their be issues? Hmmmmm
Just ask the players in question to take a polygraph. 80% of the time it works every time.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

:44:

I am fully aware of your concern, too bad you didn't respond in kind to the earlier political posts. Seems like selective criticism.

Will you also apply this to the the posts about Hunter *****?

To clarify Im under the impression that samples were not taken on Thursday because the track took rubber and there was not enough tire left from anyone's car to produce a sample. So 6 samples were collected from Friday and Saturday events.

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An open tire rule would stop all of this garbage. Let the teams run whatever they want and put a stop to the Hoosier bribe money that has done nothing substantial to improve the purse or point funds. It's not like these tire rules are saving the racers any money. Hoosier doesn't have some magic bank account full of money that they write checks to the sanctioning bodies and tracks from. This is kickback money from the dollars racers spend on their product. Get some open competition back in the marketplace and stop the monopoly that Hoosier has become. If their product is better than their competitor's, they will have nothing to worry about. Also, if there is a supposed tire shortage as they are saying, then another tire provider should help alleviate the problem.

I couldn't agree more, let AR back in the game, not sure how many people will return, but it will be a good time to start, shouldn't have been allowed to begin with.

The tire rule was implemented to help save the teams money. The tires were very soft and had a ton of grip, therefore wearing out quickly, hurting the quality of the racing, and rubbering up racetracks. Teams were bolting on fresh rubber every time the car hit the track.

There was an interview with Kenny Jacobs in Sprint car and Midget were he talked about it. He basically said the smaller teams couldn't compete because the WoO teams went out with 4 fresh tires every time they hit the track. I know this is the wing side but that's what I remember as the argument for spec tires.

With that being said I don't see why you can't have a spec tire from two manufacturers to help with cost.

I always thought that was the tin tops and the Atlas Bucrons that caused all the fuss, they were super soft, I had a friend who was using them, and they asked him to quit, which he did.
OMG, that was the early 60s, I was in DC, serving my country, and working part time at a gas ⛽station in Virginia, just across from the pentagon, and shipping tires down here, cause we had plenty, no wonder no one knows what I'm talking about.

Even at the local level, the top teams have new rear tires on every night. While I’d be a proponent of open competition on a tire rule, I’d be a bigger proponent of randomly testing tires at the local level.

Every time I bring up opening the tire rule back up there are a lot of people saying it won’t work blah blah blah

Re: Tire Dopers
 

The simple solution to this is have a 1 RR per event rule. You run the same RR tire in qualifying, heat, and feature. If you pick one that's too soft, you won't make it to the end. No need to worry about doping, grooving, siping, brand, or anything else. Mark or scan the tire before going out to qualify and check after heats and feature. All of this talk about saving money always makes me laugh. $50k+ engines with $10k+ rebuilds several times per season, $400k+ haulers with multiple spare cars stacked up top, and we're worried about saving some tire money? Hoosier has literally bought their tire monopoly by openly bribing tracks and sanctioning bodies. I have no proof, but it wouldn' surprise me one bit if there was kickback money that wasn't seen or publicized too. No single supplier, spec compound, or doping rule was ever needed to fix the tire problem you described above. A simple one per night rule would have fixed it immediately.

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I remember a former Lawrenceburg champion who ran a Goodyear on the RR and Hoosier on the left rear and had American Racers on the front. almost every race.

Burdette

That’s not true

What’s not true ?

Re: Tire Dopers
 

That he won on American racers. The NWO has had a hoosier rule for about five years now. But he did open it up to all compounds due to tire shortages

Your are correct, a buddy of mine that owns the 5 car told me that and I text him and asked him again and he said that he was mistaken on that.

I believe this is what the AllStars do. Your tire is tagged and you have to run the tire you qualified on.

Last time I bought tires, American Racers were a lot cheaper than Hoosier. Plus the guy selling them was much friendlier. Hoosier RR was $220, AR was $165. The following year USAC mandated Hoosiers and we sold our car.

My post has nothing to do with Volusia...Volusia is out in the open...it has to do with USAC and people saying USAC will sweep it under the rug, essentially bad mouthing USAC when they didnt sweep anything under the rug, they made a statement and said they are doing further testing and waiting for results...also wouldnt matter if 5M was tested or not. Common sense says IF 5S was doping tires, 5M wasnt? Coming from same shop, same owner, but keep tires separate for the 2 cars and their gonna dope tires for one car but not the other? Benefit of that would be? 0...Oh but wait, common sense is antique these days what am I talking about.

USAC used to do that on the pavement cars. They stamped the tire you qualified on and you had to start the feature on it. We ran a different tire in the heat and if we had to run the suitcase. I saw a guy at IRP that blistered his stamped rr in his heat and they tried to cut the stamp off with a razor blade and glue it onto another tire. LOL

This controversy was brought up on Dirtracker Daily. USAC has made a statement and more is forthcoming. It’s being watched by a lot of eyes and I have no reason to think the proper outcome won’t be reached. I don’t have a problem with people not revealing their sources, but maybe they should not comment at all in that case. I do have one question though I hope you can clear up for me. It was kinda implied through a couple of comments that there’s a tire doping service? Someone that can treat your tires for you? If I was going to cheat, I wouldn’t go to the cheating store to do so because now there’s at least one other person or party that knows what I’m doing.

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The “doping service” as you call it is not specific to the Indy area. There are similar people here in Pa that do the same thing. There is quite a bite of speculation in a couple of divisions out here about who is treating tires and who is not. Either doing it themselves or having it done by someone. It’s been an issue for a while. Unfortunately the solution may be complex. Aside from the sanction or track supplying the tires on Raceday only, it’s going to be an issue. I also understand that this solution then creates extra work on Raceday for the teams and supplier. Like I said it’s complex. Cheating never is simple to solve unless you do away with the rule book. Have an engine limit, minimum weight, max size bodywork, and safety rules. Almost a run what ya brung approach but not that crazy.

Yeleyfan l would subscribe to that! I could be wrong but I blame the tire company for most of what’s wrong. A monopoly is rarely a good thing

The whole tire doping service thing happened when MSCS was allowing doping because they couldn’t police it which is fair if they couldn’t actually do it. When that happened you had better atleast had an understanding on what doping did depending on where you were as it works better at some tracks versus others. That’s when a lot of this came to light in 2019. Towards the end of 2020 Tommy came out and said they couldn’t get cars because of it and he didn’t like what it was doing for MSCS so the they banned doping and were taking samples. It was a pretty noticeable difference when it came out.

On the one tire thing. That debate can die for now. In the USAC meeting it’s been asked about opening up to more compounds atleast with a pretty much unanimous no to stay on mediums by everyone.

It’s really not Hoosiers fault if everyone is on the same stuff not sauced you have a pretty level playing field and the tires the same for everyone. Once people start saucing it becomes the have the right stuff vs don’t have the right stuff and it’s another variable that makes a difference.

In the case of Ocala you wouldn’t be doping to be softer you’d be doping to make the tire keep firing the same and to last longer because it’s extremely abrasive compared to anything we race on here.

At the end of the day if you got away with it for x number of years why wouldn’t you do it? It makes a difference. Once caught take your hit and move on. It’s racing everyone is trying something at some point.

I think the problem most people have is clearly something has been happening where the have and the have nots have come out and it’s been noticed. Now we have a second option and magically we have people getting penalized etc. Pay attention to who’s been popped for doping over the last few years and what’s on the side of their racecars.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

To a casual fan, this whole melodrama makes no fuggin sense. Let me ask a couple naive questions please. First, why do we need any tire rules? Is it because they take some of the edge off the richer teams? Second, let's assume someone justifies tire rules. Why do we care what the hell what somebody does to their tires? Once again, is it because the richer teams can afford more exotic doping? Third, the reason we enjoy our standard of living under a constitutional republic is, in a word, competition under capitalism. Why is competition not allowed in the sale of sprint car tires??

1911. We are no longer a constitutional republic. Just sayin.