Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't get CART versus IRL out of my mind.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Bingo!! You nailed it. The problem IS Indiana. The fans want to watch 15$ shows in person and then watch the 30$ show on a recliner. Sounds great to a naive fan, but they also don’t like when their favorite driver leaves to race for more money in another type series. The promoters schedule against each other because of this stupid mentality. A person in the Usac office explained to me years ago that the ISW purses won’t substantially increase because it’s the only time of the year Indiana promoters get along and work together, by not scheduling against each other and adding money to any of those races. He said they make a boat load of money that week and don’t want to give it up. My response was to schedule Usac events at least 500 miles away that week and see how many of the true real local fans show up to every event. I guaranteed him there would not be one sellout. If the fans are the problem forcing promoters to screw one another then take the product away and market it elsewhere properly and it’s a win. Usac has always said they are a sanction body not a promoter. WRG is a sanction body that PROMOTES their product. Not once but twice by adding SLMs. The be careful what you wish for line is easy to say when you are afraid of losing what you’ve got. I firmly believe if half of the Usac events that are scheduled each year in Indiana were removed then all shows would be sellouts. Too easy for people to say I’ll just go to the next one.
I’m from Pa and used to be a weekly fan of winged racing until I started coming to Indiana regularly. Our speedweek is usually a real one, meaning it’s a whole week, not two wknds with a two day nap time. The tracks are packed and the purses are all elevated. Also there is no sanction body. One thing we do have is promotion. The racing is, well it’s wings so take it for what it’s worth. WRG probably has its issues and time will tell what they are. Usac has had all of these years to raise their product to the financial level that WoO has gotten their products to and have failed. I don’t blame any team that leaves for wings or teams that follow WRG. I’m not going to be careful that I wished these guys raced for more money.
This isn’t going to be a work in conjunction thing either. As Gene F. said earlier, this is a step towards a total takeover.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Maybe the first and only time I've totally agreed with you on anything. But there are some differences on what we would agree the solution to be.

Some Tracks only make a profit on their USAC shows. the rest they are breaking even or losing on. I get it. But some Indiana tracks having three four five and one even six USAC dates between sprints and midgets. Some of them all standard purse. I see this is where the sanction should take a stand. You want more than two (Including sprint week) One race has to pay a third more first to twenty first.

You want a weekday date?? The sanction and purse fee is 28k You want Friday, Saturday or a holiday or a sprint week show? The sanction and purse fee is 35 or 40k

That kind of thing. There are a lot of things Not right with Indiana racing. But the thing that's right is none of us have to travel five hundred miles to see awesome non wing action. A racer wanting to hone his/her craft can run two, three or more times in some cases a week.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Posting this for information only….KO Motorsports with drivers Jason McDougal and Chase Stockton will compete for the Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Car Series title.

This was reported on FB by both Sprint Car and Midget Magazine and Speed Sport.

And on 6 posts above yours here.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

The hardest thing to change in an organization is its culture, and the Indiana culture seems to be a majority of owners who don't want to travel very far or very often. That is just my casual observation, not sure if it is accurate. Does that same group control the USAC board of directors?
Another question, how does California sprint racing compare to Indiana?

Looks like we're back to StockTon again!

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Uhoh..... I'm a card carrying member of both "crowds"
Does that make me "Superbad"???? :10:

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

No wonder I'm friends with BTFunk! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9CLOEOB5U

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

First off, I know next to nothing about the business of sprint car racing, winged, wingless, or upside down crushed wing
Second, at the risk of jinxing the whole shebang, I hope this works out for all concerned
Third, with the same "Anti Jinx Disclaimer", hoping good luck for Mr. Funk & his hellacious medical issues ;)

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Indiana teams don't travel because in order to pay for what they love doing they have to have a day job.

The guys kicking everyone's asses aren't paying the bills with days jobs. Also, if the pro teams go race for pro money, it will let guys with day jobs win the local shows.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Before we get are nuts in a bunch with all the back and forth; let's all wait and see what the schedules look like for the inaugural season for these two new series. Then we will all know and have an idea how it might play out. Making early assumptions and all the whoopla over a press release. As far as I'm concerned with this action will speak louder than a bunch of words in an article. How ever I do think this might have a chance to get USAC to step up on race payouts. Be caful on that though. You don't want payouts so high a track won't or can't afford to schedule them.

I see three drivers have already committed to the Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series
Landon Simon
Jason McDougle
Chase Stockton

Haven't heard if anyone has committed to the Xtreme Outlaw Midget Series yet. Guess will all have to wait till after the schedules come out to see who all actually committs to both tours.

Still interested to see what tracks will be on both schedules for their inaugural seasons. We can all sit here and speculate but time will tell.

Right now I'm more interested to see what drivers and teams like Clauson-Marshall Racing, TOPP Performance Motorsports & others think about it all.

Just my thoughts. :32:

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Penske needs to buy USAC and put all this to rest. :9:

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

The most disappointing aspect for us Illini wingless 410 sprint car fans regarding this whole deal for 2022 is the odds of the WRG/WoO's scheduling a wingless 410 sprint event within the borders of Illinois are on par with USAC scheduling in Illinois. Which is to say the odds are zero.

Disappointed or not we Illini wingless 410 fans sincerely hope that in the long run this all works out well for everyone involved, be it USAC, POWRi and WRG/WoO's.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

I'd keep my money in my pocket on that bet ISF. I have it on pretty good authority that you might want to raise your odds from zero to about 90 at the moment. I'll keep hustling for you.

How could one "buy" USAC it is (a) a club (b) a registered non-profit organization

My guess is that you could pay to license the exclusive use of the name and then have an operating agreement for a certain duration. I think this is kind of what Liberty Media does with the F1 brand on a 100 year or so commercial license from FIA in some convoluted way that is way above my pay grade.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Buy, put out of business, whatever.

Head to Head for the Top Org. has been tried before. USA and NST took on the WoO and what happened was all the major tracks and events stayed WoO and all of the USA and NST TEAMS ran the major events anyway. Despite the other shows paying the same or more thru the pack than WoO.

The LMS have two national series and yet they now have two ten-fifteen race big money series as well. One is 22k to win every start.

I could see this working like that. Where USAC ,Powri War, MSCS and some normally wing racers could run for higher than normal $$.

Talked with a USAC team owner and he said. If my driver can go to FL and race a couple extra nights in only a couple extra days, More power too him. But he's committed to the USAC trail.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Odds are very high it will be more than one race in Illinois at two different tracks as of now.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Yes - agree that is possible

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Hmmm- Jacksonville is one, Fairbury or Granite the other?

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

usac, woo, xtreme. i think inflation is going to be the front runner for now.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Spoon River Speedway in Lewiston, Illinois just released their 2022 Schedule and the Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Cars are on the schedule for Saturday, September 10th 2022.

http://www.spoonriverspeedway.com/schedule.html


Hey ISF K-DOB was right


2022 Spoon River Speedway Tentative Schedule

UMP Pro L/M - UMP Mods - SpeeD2 Midgets - E-Mod - UMP HO For Sponsors Visit Our Web Site


Prac Sun April 10 Any Class is Welcome 11 to 3

Prac Sat April 16 Any Class is Welcome 11 to 3

Prac Sun April 23 Any Class is Welcome 11 to 3

Sat April 30 The Greg Gilmore Memorial

Sat May 7 First Responders Night

Wed May 11 Castrol Oil Flo Racing Night in America Mods $3000, E-Mods $500
$22,022 to Win Super L/M

Sat May 14 TBA

Sat May 21

Sun May 29 Modified Gary Cook Jr Memorial TBA
MARS Super L/M

Sat June 4

Sat June 11

Sat June 18 Bill Anderson Memorial

Thurs June 23 Summer Nationals Hell Tour Super L/M, Modifieds, E-Mods

Sat June 25

Sat July 2 Spoon Cracker 40's (Mods & Pro L/M)

Sat July 9 Kids Candy Dash Races

Sat July 16

Sat July 23 Quick Draw Races

Sat July 30 Closed Fulton County Fair

Sat Aug 6

Sat Aug 13

Sat Aug 20 Tuff Spoon 100 (Pro L/M)

Sat Aug 27
TBA

Sun Sept 4 Modified Plow Boy Nationals $5000 to Win $1000 Start
Plus MARS L/M for $5000 to Win

Sat Sept 10 Xtreme OutLaw Sprint Cars TBA

Sat Sept 17 Tom Knowles Memorial MOWA Sprints TBA
Aaron Hull Memorial $1500 to Win

Sat Sept 24 E-Mod & Hornet Nationals
Final Night Track Points

Reg Sat Gates Open - 4 Hot Laps - 6 Racing - 7 (Times may vary for Specials)

Located just off Highway 24, 7 miles West of Banner, on Speedway Road

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

Should have named it B.O.S.S BEYOND OUTLAW Sprint Series.:9:

Love me some Spoon River !

Much ado about….well I’m not sure. Lots of folks lambasting USAC for…..not expanding? I’d like more too, but they got a good gig going. I see several shows every year in Indiana, the crowds are always large, the field is always full. Just because they may struggle in Pennsylvania or South Dakota or Knoxville doesn’t mean they aren’t successful for what they are. Hell, you have to get up pretty early in the morning just to get a decent sprint week seat. USAC is fine. If another group wants to give big travel with non wingers a try, go for it, not sure that’s gonna knock USAC off it’s perch, but if it somehow does, it will be a boon for MSCS. There is always going to be a strong local non wing org in Indiana.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

The real winners of this situation so far will be the drivers who can actually run both series. My biggest question will be where exactly the xtreme series plans on getting cars, depending upon where they are located and the time of year. They almost need to have a USAC show near by before their show, if its somewhere outside of the midwest, or pay a substantial amount of money.

As for the midgets, thats an even bigger question. Some of these teams are stretched as thin as possible as it is with different sets of drivers running in both Powri, and USAC. Which leads to a big question for the midget series in will they have a USAC Style age rule? Or will they operate under the Powri mindset which is that 13 year olds can run.

Volusia makes sense, so does the i-55 date. I would be nearly certain that events at Knoxville, Jacksonville, Midget show at Millbridge in November, possibly another trip to I-55, and maybe even the World Finals could be a part of the schedule. But so much of the success or failure of this new start up will vastly depend on the schedule. They cant possibly throw money up at a place where NW racing is not rooted and expect cars to show up.

Another very interesting thing that has been posed is the enormous sanctioning fee that comes with a WoO late model and Sprint show. How much more will these tracks and promoters have to pay in order to have both series at their track at the same time and still make a profit? Being they want to pair these events with late model and Sprint shows from WRG.

There are a lot of variables that are coming into this that will need to be explored. But we do know that WRG does not play fair, and on the whole has no problems double booking against series who pose as a threat. While B Walks and Casey Shuman have the heart and care for midgets and NW sprints, the corporate entities associated with WRG and DIRTvision (the whole reason this series event was started) surely do not care as much. I only hope both can exist on a fair playing field over the test of time, and the pissing contest doesnt become too much for series and or tracks to handle.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

USAC Midgets are at Sweet Springs, MO on 9/10/22 final night of two day show. Seems a lot of USAC Sprint guys can go to Spoon River if they choose.

Grant, Thorson, Axsom, Seavey, and Bacon most likely only USAC Sprint regulars running Sweet Springs midgets.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

THANK YOU MR. DOBSON!! Not only for the great advise on how to keep from losing some money on a bet of a hunch, but also for helping bring wingless sprint car racing to the Land O' Lincoln & crooked politicians!

This is one time that I'm quite happy to be full of it.

You also have my word as a faithful bleacher jockey that we'll be supporting these events in Illini Land!

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

One more point if I may. For those of you that want larger purses for non wing and say you are willing to pay more for admission prices, get ready. If this is the start of a war and WoO is intent on winning, they will take a loss for awhile to do so. Once they win you will be paying $35-$40 to watch non wing racing, just like the wing shows. Quite frankly, that would price me out of about half the USAC shows I see in a year. I’m willing to pay a little more, but not $10-$15 more.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

If as indicated these are run in conjunction with WoO Sprints and Late Models that is a very, very big purse to cover - by someone

They are scheduled at Spoon River sans Wang Outlaws or Outlaw TinTops.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

These may or may not be run with the WoO Sprints and Late Models, but that will be true in some cases.
The midgets will run with the Sprints at the Ironman, but I-55 just added at least 200 more seats.
Those seats at $75 each will certainly help cover the purse.

I hope this all works out. I’m trying to rationalize all the excitement for it. Almost seems as though it’s from people wanting USAC to fail as much as people excited for a new series. I’m sure there’s no shortage of people who would like to grind an axe with them, but no one can argue that there’s any better wingless racing anywhere. Seems to me if I had a track and truly wanted to have a top tier non wing race I would try to get USAC. Maybe WRG can improve the demand for this. I’m mean they’ve already got people believing that the WOO is best dirt racing in the country. Kinda like what NASCAR did to big time racing. But most of us with a functioning brain know better

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

You know, 55, after reading what you wrote here, I am starting to wonder if there is a different motive here.
Take over non-wing sprints and knock USAC out looks like a possibility. But how about this angle:

Do not threaten USAC's reign on non-wing racing. Especially in the country of Indiana. Let them keep doing as they do, but start bringing non-wing sprints into the WoO/WRG shows and see how many drivers might want to cross over and run both wing/non-wing portions of the shows. I think it might actually HELP the WRG side by not trying to snuff out USAC. Non-wing fans are pretty much all aligned with USAC. Why alienate these fans? Let's just try to get them to come on over, watch a little wing/non-wing stuff, pad the gate, and pad the coffers?

At first I thought of this as a Gumout Series v. All Stars deal. But the more I think about it as I actually have the time to think, this could actually make things better.

At least for the short run and this doesn't turn into a game of Risk (a.k.a. World Dominance).

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

"Seems a lot of USAC Sprint guys can go to Spoon River if they choose."..... You think USAC will let them??? :11:

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

??? Jim, can they stop them? If they do, can they ban them? And if they do, what does that result in?

"Let" is a verb that I think might need defining if some sailors decide to board another ship when it leaves port in the upcoming months.

An interesting point of interest/conflict if this occurs, though. Good point, Jim.

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

How could they make a living racing 10-15 races a season? Why would they try? IF USAC would ban them, they traded a full time job for part time one
This is all pretty crazy & interesting to me. I have no idea whats gonna happen but I hope for the best

Re: World Of Outlaws Non Wing 2022
 

" But most of us with a functioning brain know better"? Its not IQ, its what you're exposed to. People in other parts of the USA grew up on wings, big tracks & speed.
I didn't grow up on sprint cars at all. I used to watch dirt track "jalopy" & modified races in Virginia in my teens, moved to New England where there are almost ZERO dirt tracks, lost interest, didn't start watching sprint cars until my 60s. Heard about Central Pa. sprint cars, started going, wanted wings & 1/2 miles. Then saw a video of some hellacious Kokomo battle, started to visit Indiana.... bingo. Now I'm sold on wingless. But lots of people don't travel as much as I did, they just stick with what they know...