Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

no way around "unsportsman" like conduct in any racing.
Take the literally most basic racing there is bmx.
Both my kids had to ride a couple bmx races before racing motorcycles. So here you are 5-7 yr old class, most have $ 200-300 bmx bikes, heavy and slow. Theres ALWAYS that guy that has his kids out on $ 3500.00 unobtainable alloy bike that weights 1/3 of what you got.
Nothin you can do but tell your kids to pedal harder.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
First off Mr. Crankin, I don’t know that you and I have ever even met, so I don’t know how you know so much about me or my ties with anybody.

Craig Dori. All I have to do is read your stuff and your families stuff here, and on Facebook.

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but I was the 11th person to post on this topic, not the first.

Didn't say you were the first, I said I understand the concern of the person that started this thread.

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
And all I did is post some facts and ask a couple of questions. Is that not allowed on a public message board?

As did I.... With some real #'s as well. Not keeping the many folks that have asked, in the dark, as to what your's or Esslinger's engine are going to cost?
Now granted, I understand your's maybe still in development, that's fine, but Esslinger's is apparently ready as they're asking folks to call for pricing... Why can't that be made available to the public to counteract the claims of how much you think we're going to spend on stock engines???

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
Is there really anything wrong with asking how tech is going to be performed? I personally find it more disturbing that nobody from the sanctioning body is willing to be open and up-front about their plans for enforcing the rules. If I was planning to put together a legal “stock” D-2 midget, I would first like to know that I would be racing against all other legal “stock” D-2 midgets. Is that thought process unreasonable?

Not at all, I completely agree. Feel free to ask some that know me how much I agree with this... In fact, that feeling completely changed what my Summer plans are. :)
The only other thought that I have on this, is maybe they (the sanctioning bodies) are keeping quiet on what and how they're going to tech, so that folks can't already know what to fudge on to get through tech?... Again, just a thought, I truly don't know what they have in mind, but I am sure it will be a work in progress that will need some patience from all involved.

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
As far as calling someone out for building an engine and offering it for sale, why would you do that? The rules were written long before this engine was built. If you’re angry at them for wanting to sell their product, why aren’t you calling out any other D-2 engine builders who offer their products for sale?

I am not angry at them for doing anything. I am just trying to paint the full picture to counter all the negatives about stock D2 that come from you and your family, with a little of what has been going on from the "stock" side.
I have nothing to sell, I have nothing to gain except for the future midget racing as my opinion sees it should go. That opinion is obviously different from you, but I'am not on here saying things like "As far as giving this D-2 thing “a chance to work itself out,” I simply pointed out SOME of the fallacies of the ideas people are posting on..". I believe there are a lot of "fallacies" on what your selling, but that doesn't need to be constantly brought to the top of this message board.... Or as I put another way, wish would just stop.
How do you know our "fallacies" are not going to work? Know more than I know if your deal is going to work? As stated, the racers will decide as time goes by. But bashing one or the other is senseless, and does nothing but hurt the whole thing... You and Us!
Run your mousetrap, we'll run ours, it will all come out in the wash, not on social media.

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
I know at least one of them lobbied very hard to get “any programmable ignition/fuel injection system” allowed.

IF, and I repeat IF, I know who you are speaking of, he runs an Electromotive Tec-S.... And that comes complete nowhere near $6,000.

Run 410 non-wing sprint cars, problem solved!

Bob

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
I can take the heat. If I couldn’t, I would not have posted on this board.

Mark Ray

That might be the funniest thing I've read on here yet considering you and your other half had to call Wayne and tell him to "control me" last time you were feeling the heat in your engine thread. LOL

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Ha-ha !

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
First off Mr. Crankin, I don’t know that you and I have ever even met, so I don’t know how you know so much about me or my ties with anybody. Of course, I noticed that only one of us has bothered to attach his name to his post, so I don’t know to whom I am even responding. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but I was the 11th person to post on this topic, not the first. And all I did is post some facts and ask a couple of questions. Is that not allowed on a public message board? Is there really anything wrong with asking how tech is going to be performed? I personally find it more disturbing that nobody from the sanctioning body is willing to be open and up-front about their plans for enforcing the rules. If I was planning to put together a legal “stock” D-2 midget, I would first like to know that I would be racing against all other legal “stock” D-2 midgets. Is that thought process unreasonable? As far as calling someone out for building an engine and offering it for sale, why would you do that? The rules were written long before this engine was built. If you’re angry at them for wanting to sell their product, why aren’t you calling out any other D-2 engine builders who offer their products for sale? I know at least one of them lobbied very hard to get “any programmable ignition/fuel injection system” allowed.


Mark Ray

I totally agree with your concern of being able to regulate the rules established.I'm from a different series that has the same issue.they didn't have a way or concern to check engines for being legal,and recently have allowed other engine types to come in.if you can't/won't regulate the engines you know,how will one know if the newer engines coming on are legal?if racers/owners don't feel like they are on a fair playing field,car counts will definitely suffer.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by xoxide:
That might be the funniest thing I've read on here yet considering you and your other half had to call Wayne and tell him to "control me" last time you were feeling the heat in your engine thread. LOL

That's very strange xoxide, since I have never spoken to Wayne about anything. You obviously have me confused with somebody else. Not to mention, I have certainly never needed help handling you in a message board discussion!
Nice try though.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Wow, it always amazes me how the truth gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. It seems that each time a rumor is repeated, it gets modified just a little to suit the perception of the person passing on the rumor... Eventually it's way out of wack!

To set the record straight, the following are our approximate prices on BADGER and D2 engines:

Esslinger BADGER legal FORD engine as pictured in the first post of this thread = ~$18,000

Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with wet-sump = ~$12,000
Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with dry-sump = ~$15,000

After reading through this thread, it seems prices are in-line with other engine builders in this market. Along with our engine program offerings, we also offer our best knowledge and products to everyone who is interested in purchasing them. We don't play favorites, and every one of our National engine customers can attest to that. When we figure out something better, we offer it to EVERYONE! Believe it or not, the owners and management of our business cares more about the health of midget racing than most people could ever imagine.

If anyone has questions about our BADGER or "D2" engines or parts, I can be reached directly M-F 8:30-5:00 PST at (909) 539-0544 extension 3.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by Brian @ Esslinger:
Wow, it always amazes me how the truth gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. It seems that each time a rumor is repeated, it gets modified just a little to suit the perception of the person passing on the rumor... Eventually it's way out of wack!

To set the record straight, the following are our approximate prices on BADGER and D2 engines:

Esslinger BADGER legal FORD engine as pictured in the first post of this thread = ~$18,000

Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with wet-sump = ~$12,000
Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with dry-sump = ~$15,000

After reading through this thread, it seems prices are in-line with other engine builders in this market. Along with our engine program offerings, we also offer our best knowledge and products to everyone who is interested in purchasing them. We don't play favorites, and every one of our National engine customers can attest to that. When we figure out something better, we offer it to EVERYONE! Believe it or not, the owners and management of our business cares more about the health of midget racing than most people could ever imagine.

If anyone has questions about our BADGER or "D2" engines or parts, I can be reached directly M-F 8:30-5:00 PST at (909) 539-0544 extension 3.

Thank-you for posting these numbers. Can you post your HP-range that the $18,000 engine may ideally be around? Thank-you.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by :
Craig Dori. All I have to do is read your stuff and your families stuff here, and on Facebook.

So you read my opinions and my family’s opinions on IOW and on Facebook, and you think you know all about me? You think you know about all of my racing related “associations?” Please enlighten me, Mr. Dori. What are my ties to any of the businesses and/or sanctioning bodies related to this discussion?

Originally Posted by :
As did I.... With some real #'s as well. Not keeping the many folks that have asked, in the dark, as to what your's or Esslinger's engine are going to cost?

You’re STILL upset that I haven’t taken the time to determine the real cost to duplicate the engine that I built for my own personal use? My engine was built by me, for me. It was never intended to be sold. Why is that information so important to you? Why are you not demanding that everyone else post their cost figures on this message board?

Originally Posted by :
Now granted, I understand your's maybe still in development, that's fine, but Esslinger's is apparently ready as they're asking folks to call for pricing... Why can't that be made available to the public to counteract the claims of how much you think we're going to spend on stock engines???

Why do you continue to connect me with a business that is more than 2000 miles away from me? Why do you call me out because you want a price on someone else’s engine? I did not have that information, and if I did, I would not think it was my place to post it.
Until you and the “many folks” started mocking the photo of my engine, and demanding that I post dollar figures, I don’t recall ever making any claims as to the cost of anyone’s D-2 series engine.

Originally Posted by :
I am not angry at them for doing anything. I am just trying to paint the full picture to counter all the negatives about stock D2 that come from you and your family, with a little of what has been going on from the "stock" side.

Again, please enlighten me on this. I have just spent way too much time looking back through all of my posts, and all of my son’s posts on this message board, and I fail to find any evidence to support your claim. I have also looked at many posts and responses to posts on Facebook, and once again I fail to see how you can make this claim. Please feel free to use the search function and the quote function on this board and post your evidence here. I would like to see what it is that you consider so negative

Originally Posted by :
Run your mousetrap, we'll run ours, it will all come out in the wash, not on social media.

Originally Posted by :
I have nothing to sell, I have nothing to gain except for the future midget racing as my opinion sees it should go. That opinion is obviously different from you,

Ditto for me. If your opinion differs from mine, that’s fine. I thought that’s what the United States was all about. We all are supposed to be allowed to have and share our own opinions.
Once again, I am not selling any ideologies. I am not in charge of anyone’s “mousetrap.” I own a race car that I plan to race. There are options available for me as to where I race, and I would like to know how the organizers intend to enforce their rules. I simply would like to know how legitimate their program might be, before I determine whether or not to participate. I don’t believe any REASONABLE person would consider that thought process to be out of line.

Now, try to calm yourself a little and enjoy your day!

Mark Ray

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
That's very strange xoxide, since I have never spoken to Wayne about anything. You obviously have me confused with somebody else. Not to mention, I have certainly never needed help handling you in a message board discussion!
Nice try though.

You and I both know that's complete and total BS, at least be a man and own up to it....

"Mark Ray just got off the phone with me upset and telling me I need to control my racers and what they post on iow"

It's alright though I find it incredibly amusing, you told me I was hiding behind a keyboard, I post my name and phone number, a few hours later I get a phone call, but it's not from you, it's from Wayne because you weren't a man enough to call me yourself HAHAHAHA

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by :
"Mark Ray just got off the phone with me upset and telling me I need to control my racers and what they post on iow"

Well X, if Wayne really did call you and tell you that I talked to him, he is either a liar or he is delusional.

Delusional: "Having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions."

Does everyone feel the love here?

Im very calm Mark, and have been through everything i have said.
BUT. It seems to me that you live in a different perception of what i have been writing, and are waaay off the "Mark".

I CLEARLY stated i understand why you don't post a cost, and in all honesty, I don't care.

I do not need to go searching for your statements, it's been more than clear where you stand since you left the imra.

I now once again implore you to stop this, and as stated many times, just do your thing and others will do there's. Quit posting your negative outlook on social media and just go race wherever you're going to race.

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
Well X, if Wayne really did call you and tell you that I talked to him, he is either a liar or he is delusional.

Delusional: "Having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions."

I am well educated and know the definition of delusional.... Actually, it seems to fit the bill pretty well for you.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Wow. That escalated quickly. I thought I was going to have to wait mid-season at least before the fan needed a good hosing off

Here I am, waiting for my driver to get back from college for the 2017 racing season, trying to decide whether I should build a D2, go back to micro racing, or maybe something else entirely (410's maybe?) and honestly I'm not even positive they'll be a D2 series around by then.

Maybe I should hold off on that trip to the salvage yard.

Originally Posted by Daddyz:
Wow. That escalated quickly. I thought I was going to have to wait mid-season at least before the fan needed a good hosing off

Here I am, waiting for my driver to get back from college for the 2017 racing season, trying to decide whether I should build a D2, go back to micro racing, or maybe something else entirely (410's maybe?) and honestly I'm not even positive they'll be a D2 series around by then.

Maybe I should hold off on that trip to the salvage yard.

And so goes my whole point, but i understand why.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by Daddyz:
Wow. That escalated quickly. I thought I was going to have to wait mid-season at least before the fan needed a good hosing off

Here I am, waiting for my driver to get back from college for the 2017 racing season, trying to decide whether I should build a D2, go back to micro racing, or maybe something else entirely (410's maybe?) and honestly I'm not even positive they'll be a D2 series around by then.

Maybe I should hold off on that trip to the salvage yard.

IS THIS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS!!!!

Racers to hold off because of what they read...I don't speak for every series on here but I am the sole founder of the name D-2 and the basic rules as far as bringing Lightning sprints and automotive engines together to race since 2010. Some started a few years later...Vern with Illini had a GREAT set of rules for 25 years and a damn good formula but did not allow the mini (Lightning) sprints to race with them, ours and a few others allowed Mini Sprints to run.

Here is the thing we all had the basic rules in place 80% the same but all of us had the same vision "more affordable midget racing"! In November of 2014 I reached out to KB of POWRi and we spoke of lower division of racing and told him what we where doing along with others around the nation and he liked the idea. We both understood that this was NOT an effort to REPLACE our big brother National Midgets but was a grass roots racing of allowing the less fortunate to go race midgets a an affordable price so the name "DIVISION II" was a good fit for what we all was doing.

KB wanted to help with bringing "US" together so he had a meeting at his facility in Oct. of 2015 to help hammer out a set of "National D-2" rules, and we did...Did I like everything we agreed on..NO...but at the end of the day WE (all) did agree.

So 2016 is the Inaugural year for NATIONAL D-2 rules. Will mistakes be made? You bet your asses it will...will some get their feelings hurt?...count on it....CAN we ALL learn from it and GROW as a NEW group of racers and be true to what D-2 is? I truly think so and dang well hope so.

In the end...HERE are the rules...they are written for 2016...2017 some might be added...some might be deleted...some might be upgraded.... But even then you will never ever please everyone...

If everyone will just calm down and let the series playout and at the end of 2016 we will know what was good and what was bad. At least for now you have "OPTIONS" Badger 2.4/POWRi D-2/USAC Speed-2/NATIONAL when it comes to midget racing. All this finger pointing and b-itching does no one any good. Look at how long our own beloved Tony Stewart took to come around on something that my have saved his life (Hans Device).

Buy, build, or convert which ever you want or can afford and go race...have fun...enjoy but give the powers to be a chance to work things out. We have (series owners) spent A LOT of time, effort and $$$ for this deal. So if you chose to support us GREAT...if you chose to do something else that's ok. But dam it give it a chance!!!

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Why don't We "Agree to Disagree".:) Like Mini Sprints D2 Midgets are a HOT TOPIC. I know Andy Bradley at the MMSA is got to be just loving this discussion. D2 Midgets show a lot of promise as a workable Midget class that would allow a lot of racers to take part in Midget Racing. That is the objective isn't it???:6:

Engine builders have an interest in this class because that means extra sales. They probably have the largest amount of control over the different organizations. They tell the the the organizations what is needed and what it will cost and how they can help out in development etc, etc. (Some people will more than likely read between the lines at this point)

The chassis and general guide lines are pretty much outlined and settled. Engine Rules and specifications were put in place at several meetings this last fall. I have talked to several people that attended these meetings and from what I understand the people who had the most time and experience racing and running D2 Midgets were more or less regulated to the back of the room and the rules were changed by other people in attendance including engine builders. In my mind this is not how to do things. I said I liked a "Benevolent Dictator",:) Sounds like there were "Dictators" there but they sure the heck were not very "Benevolent". They set forth rules with profit in mind and to heck with the well being of the racer.

The guys making engine rules are still thinking in the past and the way "WE USED TO DO THINGS". These little motors ain't your dad's Oldsmobile. First off performance wise they are several time more efficient than that old "Cast Iron 2 Valve Push rod Overhead Valve Engine. They achieve to get more with less. Thank you EPA, and I don't say that very often. They do not intend for these motors to set around in Junk Yards for a very long period of time. After a couple of years they melt them down and turn them back into something else. A big advantage over Cast Iron. You will not be able to go back to a junk yard in 10 years and buy any parts for that 2.4 Ecotec because it will have moved on and came back in another form.

The rule makers have not yet got their hands around this concept. The old 350 Chevy's sat around junk yards for 50+ years not so the newer motors. Then>>>I hear that familiar argument>>>Heck you can buy aftermarket performance parts for the same price or cheaper than OEM Stock Parts at list price. LISTEN UP DANG-IT:D>>>If you have to buy parts to fix that motor you really don't want to buy that motor:) Most people do not realize what engineering marvels some of these engines are. They would be quite capable of powering a Midget race car right out of the wrecked car if they would fit in. They don't need a whole lot of work if the truth be known.

Then we got little Johnny Money-Bags with all kinds of Money and very little knowledge to go with it except for what he read in the Magazines. Has anyone ever wondered how many of these stories ended up in magazines? Have you ever noticed also the increase in advertising for certain parts makers that appear in these magazines both before and after that article appears telling about so and so's latest addition to the racing industry. I have been around long enough to see any of these things invented several time by several different people.;)

Now back to Johnny>>>Allow the engine parts people to make add on external accessories for these little Motors. Water Pumps, Dry Sump Pumps, Oil Pans, Valve Covers, and even fuel injectors. A few years ago the Mini Sprinters were faced with the prospect of a National group wanting to outlaw Mechanical injection their reasoning being to make it cheaper on the racer. The people wanting to allow the injectors to stay cited such facts like it make my Mini sprint look like a Midget and the safety fact that when the engines stops it cuts the fuel off, Not very good arguments in favor of the extra expense but at least arguments. Well they reached a stalemate, what happens is an injector manufacture steps up and donates some money to the group and buys some sponsorship. Low and behold Mechanical Injection was allowed and we all lived happily ever after. This would be but one example of how things work in the real world.

Now back to inspection and tec. Nobody wants a long tear drawn and tec after a day of racing and nobody wants to feel that they are getting beat by cheaters. That is a problem. Unfortunately the newer a racer is to the game and the more he is dependent on outside help to keep his race car on the track the more likely he is going to feel that somebody is cheating. The world is full of people that are more than willing to help him cheat also to keep up with these supposedly cheaters, thus we get involved in a never ending cycle and it only cost the racer.

It is very easy to devise methods to inspect motors. The invention of the inexpensive bore scope and measuring tools has helped a great deal. Rather than fighting with each other why not talk about inexpensive and positive ways to inspect motors. IOW is blessed with a lot of talent concerning mechanical matters. Coated pistons and light weight weight pins are not going to go a long way in making these engines more powerful. Porting, oversize light weight valves and components and higher compression will bump them up quite a bit. Why doesn't somebody like Esslinger devise an inspection kit that would be inexpensive and accurate to help the organizers have an efficient and accurate way to check the motors?

Then I always come back to my 10" right rear. Racers say well it will slow the cars down>>>Yep definitely>>>BUT is slow such a bad thing in racing. last night I saw a picture of the Great Jimmy Caruthers racing in his old VW powered Midget on Face Book again. I think he was at Eldora. He was down on the bottom the back end was all hung out and there was that skinny right rear tire throwing up a big old roster tail (NEAT). Some of the best midget drivers and the beat midget races have been raced on skinny tires.

Honest DAD himself:6::6:

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Dad, "Dang" If I had the foresight, I should have registered copyrights to the D2 title when I first posted "D2 Midgets" on here a couple years ago, I could put a stop to all this bickering, or cause it to be called something else. oh well, just another one of my brilliant thoughts gone awry.

Bill May

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by Bill May:
Dad, "Dang" If I had the foresight, I should have registered copyrights to the D2 title when I first posted "D2 Midgets" on here a couple years ago, I could put a stop to all this bickering, or cause it to be called something else. oh well, just another one of my brilliant thoughts gone awry.

Bill May

Bill wish you would have "copyrighted" the name also. They need a "Benevolent Dictator" to step in grab the bull by the horns and take charge. Something about rules by committee that just don't work.:5:

I still remember those smoke filled Motel conference rooms with the "Buckeye Mini Sprint Group" and racers arguing about how Electronic Injection was going to ruin Mini Sprint racing because of the extreme expense involved. YEP;)

We also have had some pretty good discussions back in the day haven't we Wayne Davis.:) I took on the moniker "Honest Dad himself" and you were the only person that ever picked up on it.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

PS. Wayne Davis I should say that I also apply that title to you. You have been on one heck of a roller coaster ride the last couple of years but you have always managed to keep your eyes on the Horizon and have sat tall in the Saddle.:6::6:

Only one small correction to your post Mr. Davis.
Laverne's Illini Series did allow chain drives, always had.
We just rarely had any show up.
Buddy damn near spanked our asses up at the Prairie few years back.

Illini Series was truly the most affordable way to race a midget period.
Best part about that series was no matter what was under the hood (national, stock block, chain drive, Kenyon car) you could race competitively.
There are only 2 series I know of that is keeping this spirit alive; Stars, and Mr. Tinder's group.

This whole thread has been entertainment to say the least but the only ones that have a legitimate argument are the guys who have been sidelined by the limited engine packages. Badgers is at least a lil more open than D2s, but still parked a handful of cars.

12k-18k does sounds more reasonable than a national engine package, but for those of us "less fortunate" guys, the most affordable package is the one that we already have.

Lamont Critchett
'07 Illini Series Champion

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by LJC77:
Only one small correction to your post Mr. Davis.
Laverne's Illini Series did allow chain drives, always had.
We just rarely had any show up.
Buddy damn near spanked our asses up at the Prairie few years back.

Illini Series was truly the most affordable way to race a midget period.
Best part about that series was no matter what was under the hood (national, stock block, chain drive, Kenyon car) you could race competitively.
There are only 2 series I know of that is keeping this spirit alive; Stars, and Mr. Tinder's group.

This whole thread has been entertainment to say the least but the only ones that have a legitimate argument are the guys who have been sidelined by the limited engine packages. Badgers is at least a lil more open than D2s, but still parked a handful of cars.

12k-18k does sounds more reasonable than a national engine package, but for those of us "less fortunate" guys, the most affordable package is the one that we already have.

Lamont Critchett
'07 Illini Series Champion

I for one, still think this needs to be resolved, before too many/any midget racing wanabes are routed on the wrong track, which seems to be happening, I think the D2 moniker needs to be removed, from what I think a lot of people want, including me, and no, Jason, if nominated I will not run, and if elected, I will not serve, but I would like to have my input considered, if not, if it's too simple, then I'll go away, no problem, I'd just like to see more rational input, and common sense applied, other than has been so far, surely there can be some logic applied, and consideration by some! Bob

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by LJC77:
...........12k-18k does sounds more reasonable than a national engine package, but for those of us "less fortunate" guys, the most affordable package is the one that we already have........

I have a love/hate relationship with this quote. I love the fact that people are invested in a midget program and that they want their program to continue. I hate the fact that people are limited in their thinking into what they have in their garage. The solution should be the best package in the long term. The solution should be built with the idea of what can we do to get some of the Modified and street stock guys to upgrade to a midget. Not what will keep xxxxxx group happy. Regardless of which group xxxxxx belongs too.

The simple fact is some of us low life's can not afford to rebuild a new package from the ground up.
That's the only point to that statement.
Trust me, if I had the $ I would invest in a package that seems to be the future, but I'm a broke ass chump with a lil driving talent and no $.
The "junkyard" $500 motor sounds great, until you realize it take about another 4-5k to get it to the track.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by LJC77:
The simple fact is some of us low life's can not afford to rebuild a new package from the ground up.
That's the only point to that statement.
Trust me, if I had the $ I would invest in a package that seems to be the future, but I'm a broke ass chump with a lil driving talent and no $.
The "junkyard" $500 motor sounds great, until you realize it take about another 4-5k to get it to the track.

Words outa my mouth above here! Another nomination for czar of all things to do with "OEM" racing engines!

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
Bill wish you would have "copyrighted" the name also. They need a "Benevolent Dictator" to step in grab the bull by the horns and take charge. Something about rules by committee that just don't work.:5:

I still remember those smoke filled Motel conference rooms with the "Buckeye Mini Sprint Group" and racers arguing about how Electronic Injection was going to ruin Mini Sprint racing because of the extreme expense involved. YEP;)

We also have had some pretty good discussions back in the day haven't we Wayne Davis.:) I took on the moniker "Honest Dad himself" and you were the only person that ever picked up on it.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

PS. Wayne Davis I should say that I also apply that title to you. You have been on one heck of a roller coaster ride the last couple of years but you have always managed to keep your eyes on the Horizon and have sat tall in the Saddle.:6::6:

"Benevolent Dictator" - I like that one! lol. My efforts to nominate anyone in charge of it all on here, seems to be about as difficult as it has been for the GOP the last few months...lol.

Re: D2 Midget Engines - Here We Go
 

Originally Posted by MRAY3:
From the POWRi D2 Rule Book:
Fuel Injection: “Any programmable ignition/fuel injection systems are allowed, but must be readily available and have supported software. No carburetors.”

**** “Any programmable ignition/fuel injection systems are allowed” ****

Check this out!

Product
MoTeC M800 ECU

SKU:
M 820

- 4MB Logging Upgrade
- Single Lambda

$6,323.00 (USD)

Are you guys SURE you want to require all "stock" internal parts and then allow $6000 engine management systems? That's just for the ECU, it doesn't include the injection unit!

A claim rule on the longblock won't keep out all the $6000+ (each) "Bolt-Ons"

Oh but remember... "NO Carburetors!"

I'm willing to bet, by the time you take all the parts allowed by the D2 rules, use a perfectly legal $6000 ECU, and add them to a $2000 longblock, you could have bought that engine that's being blamed for "escalating" the cost of D2 midget engines.

Just because something is available and expensive doesn't mean its better... JMO