Fans don't care about mini sprints. Never have, never will. Sponsors don't care about mini sprints. Never have, never will. A racing resume that only includes mini sprints means nothing. Never has, never will.

(I am not bashing the drivers or owners directly, I know there are very talented drivers and very good teams and races in the mini sprint division).

I don't know much about the Racesaver 305's, but it sounds like it could be a huge success. My only concern would be the diluting of the current class of local non-wing cars. If this class would have been around just a few years ago, I would have been all over it. I would imagine that others who come from my background (600 sidewinders) feel the same.

Of course, this is only MY opinion. Bash Away...

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Dave, That's a novel idea, It appears to me that Dirt track racing in the area is struggling for Fan support (for many reasons), resulting in promoters depending more on Racer support (back gate) to survive, additional classes may help some tracks remain open, especially if it could result in a feeder class for a more a popular division.

Some posters put down Paragon's $500 to win purse structure, but it draws more sprints on a weekly basis than other area tracks, A lower budget winged sprint division just may develop into a similar car count in a couple of years, who knows, maybe take the wings off occasionally, providing some experience for Racers wanting to move up to N/W 410's.

The Mod's were not very well received a few years ago, we have accepted them (or tolerate in some opinions) into the local tracks program, look at their car counts, probably the highest of the weekly classes (except Paragon) I have not seen or heard any track promoters complain about Modifieds, I suspect we all, as fans, have our own favorite class, I suggest we support whatever it takes to keep local tracks open and avoid another Gas City experience.

Bill May

Paging motormasher your favorite, wing racing at your favorite track and with a motor that is equal to everyone else's. You should win every race with all your talent. Your calling has been made now don't disappoint and not show up to race.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by microsprint15:
Fans don't care about mini sprints. Never have, never will. Sponsors don't care about mini sprints. Never have, never will. A racing resume that only includes mini sprints means nothing. Never has, never will.

(I am not bashing the drivers or owners directly, I know there are very talented drivers and very good teams and races in the mini sprint division).

I don't know much about the Racesaver 305's, but it sounds like it could be a huge success. My only concern would be the diluting of the current class of local non-wing cars. If this class would have been around just a few years ago, I would have been all over it. I would imagine that others who come from my background (600 sidewinders) feel the same.

Of course, this is only MY opinion. Bash Away...

Ryan

I like your style.

Sounds like a big old sprint is what you should be racing anyhow. You have been wasting your time, talent and your cash racing them squirley little 600cc Go karts.

Bet you cant get one of them sprint cars to hike that right front tire the way that sidewinder does.

If you ever get the chance try one of those 1000cc midgets on for size you might like it. They work a lot different than sidewinders do on bigger rougher tracks.

Good luck in your racing endeavors, Have fun, and work on not being so negative. The sun doesn't rise and set on any of our butts.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Lets give it a chance and see what happens if it fails it fails! If it is a success then more power to the Bloomington track owners! Racing is great in Indiana! Sprints, Midgets, Mods, Late Models, Street Stocks, Hornets, Mini sprints, TQ midgets Go- Karts the list can go on and on we all have what we like! Just a part of Indiana Americana and the season is just about over so get out there and go see whatever kind of racing you like to watch and leave next year to next year!! :6:)

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

"So I thought about building a 305 when I heard about the Bloomington divison. Then I read on IOW all the hatred and scoffs for something new. May as well sit out if the people don't wanna see it."

-Said the 15 year race fan who thought about getting behind the wheel...

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by SWScaleChassis:
"So I thought about building a 305 when I heard about the Bloomington divison. Then I read on IOW all the hatred and scoffs for something new. May as well sit out if the people don't wanna see it."

-Said the 15 year race fan who thought about getting behind the wheel...

SW

If a guy was serious about a feeder division for 410 Sprints, what a better place than Bloomington Indiana. Put a small V8 in to help control the cost, Wings for safety, and a lot of 410 teams to supply used parts, tires, and knowledge to the new racer. Some tracks are known for Stock Cars, some for Sprint cars, Bloomington has always catered to the sprints and have a very great Sprint car program, what makes more sense then to start their own class that would supply talent to their premier division. Sounds like a win win deal to me.:6::6:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

We race a 305 at 34 raceway, it is not a racesaver but the rules are very similar. It is a great class there are 18 to 22 every night. but when you talk about the price of the engines it is the same. Some guys are going to spend 25,000 and some are going to spend 5,000 and work there butt off to be competive. Some guys buy new tires every week and some of us use old 410 tires, but in the end we are having fun remember your racing for 500.00 dollars. Its a good night for us if we break even on the pit passses and fuel. LoL

Wow ! This has really got u "die hard worlds greatest we're from indiana dammit" sprint car fans in a wad. All over ADDING another class of sprint cars?????
I only have one question..... If indiana is the bastion of nonwing sprint cars (, then why r u adding a winged entry level class?
I don't particularly like 305s at my home track(knoxville) but it's more racing so I win in the end.
I think winged 305s will work on your indiana bullrings. Lawrenceburg will eat them up though. I personally look forward to seeing 305s on our next trip to indiana.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

I completely agree. Build a motor within the rules, and its fairly affordable. Cruise the classifieds for a few days, theres a chassis here, chassis and body, chassis, body, motor plate, arms, raduis rods... etc.

Yeah, the pure 410 guys may turn their nose up at the 'little 305 guys with the cute wings'. Fine. Leave after the 410's run their main.

But when you can take a kid from a Kart to a 305, you skip all the big $$ investment in the micro/lightning sprint monopoly that it is today. Seat time in a used chassis that won with Shuman or Clauson or Stanbrough behind the wheel once. On the same tracks as the big guys too.

Then, put in a 360 and run with the 410's. Then a few years later, add the 410.


And hell, you wanna avoid the tech issues. Like I said before.. the GM Crate 602/604... Might be worth a shot as well.

I just cant wrap my head around that folks shoot down ideas that could grow our sport between owners drivers and fans alike.. The same folks that scratch their head with low car counts, and hardly any folks in the stands.

-Justin

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Justin

The way to make a class and or engine expensive is to add a bunch of rules and or sealed engines. Some racers will go to the end of the earth to defeat your attempts to limit them. It may not make them faster but they sure have fun spending their money.

Limit engine displacement, (a pump will take care of that), limit bore of injectors, a caliper will fix that, limit internal metal parts from unobtanium, a magnet fixes that, limit crank to stock and not lightened, and rods to stock design, an inspection hole in the block and bore gauge fixes that, then leave the racer to his own ingenuity>>> that is the fun part of racing. The throttle bores and crankshaft should keep everybody on the same page.

Yep, there will still be expensive race motors racing, you can't rule out Money, but the guy with a little brain power and some fifty cents labor should still be competitive. High Horsepower Motors don't have much effect on the race outcome until you put the best talent available in the seat to use it to it's full potential. An example National Midgets.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Well... Looks like we need one of those poll`s set up. Not to see if it is worthwhile , but to see how many cars would be built this winter to compete. I am sure the good folk`s at Bloomington would like to know . The other area venue`s could also take a hard look at the car count and decide if they would like join in. My post was just going by the common practice of filling the pits and have that money pay the purse. Then what is generated by the spectators would be the net gain for the night. That is why my suggestion`s were to utilize an already established class and lure car counts with cash. I have discussed with one guy his intent on building a car. The 12,000 for the engine and 169.00 right rear was well within his budget. He is ahead of the curve since he already has a tow vehicle and sprint car with spares. So... Here is your chance. If your intentions are earnest that you will build a car for this, let us all know. This can gauge the interest and could possibly pull some undecided competitors to the cause.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Dan

Before the poll we need to hire one of them advertising guys to come up with a more appropriate name, "RACESAVER" sound so cheap, they need a name with more pzazz to add to the excitement.:D

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

The "FAT GIRL 305s"
The cars that everyone wants to try but nobody wants to admit to.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

If they could find a track close by that ran on Saturdays to partner with it might help. It would give the racers two venues to race at every weekend. More people might be willing to give it a go if they weren't restricted to racing one track once a week. Brownstown, North Vernon, maybe Clay County Speedway in Flora? They struggle to get more than a dozen non wing sprints on a regular basis, maybe winged cars might draw more.

Can you build your own engine or are they sealed?

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

The two local tracks around Sioux Falls are looking at adding this winged 305 racesaver class and dropping the winged 360's. My personal opinion is the true racesaver 305 motor could stay in the $10,000-$12,000 range, but if they decide to go dry sump instead, I have heard that some of those 305's go above $18,000. That to me is not low budget or a beginners series, when you can get a good -12 headed 410 for $12,000 and the car itself costs the same. What I find interesting about how Indiana does things is your main event doesn't run last. Here ALL support classes run 1st then the main event is last. Kinda like going to a, lets say Garth Brooks concert and he is the first on the stage and it closes with some garage band as the last act. By the way we will be keeping our 360 and maybe adding a -12 400 and some cubic inch to our stable. ;)

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86:
Can you build your own engine or are they sealed?

http://www.racesaver.com/rules.cfm?rk=8

Here's the link to the rulebook. Primarily the engine stuff.

-Justin

We would be intrested in getting one of these But i cant buy a car to race one nite a week (friday) and only at one track. Need some more tracks to take the chance...

Originally Posted by SWScaleChassis:
I completely agree. Build a motor within the rules, and its fairly affordable. Cruise the classifieds for a few days, theres a chassis here, chassis and body, chassis, body, motor plate, arms, raduis rods... etc.

Yeah, the pure 410 guys may turn their nose up at the 'little 305 guys with the cute wings'. Fine. Leave after the 410's run their main.

But when you can take a kid from a Kart to a 305, you skip all the big $$ investment in the micro/lightning sprint monopoly that it is today. Seat time in a used chassis that won with Shuman or Clauson or Stanbrough behind the wheel once. On the same tracks as the big guys too.

Then, put in a 360 and run with the 410's. Then a few years later, add the 410.


And hell, you wanna avoid the tech issues. Like I said before.. the GM Crate 602/604... Might be worth a shot as well.

I just cant wrap my head around that folks shoot down ideas that could grow our sport between owners drivers and fans alike.. The same folks that scratch their head with low car counts, and hardly any folks in the stands.

-Justin

Absolutely brilliant idea with the 602/604 crate. Late model racing has developed a crate class and it has really taken off over the last few years. I think sprints could do the same.

I don't see why a non-wing crate class wouldn't work either. Just food for thought.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Why are they going to be winged? If you are trying to create a feeder system for the predominant style of car in your region it seems counter-productive.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by captrat:
Why are they going to be winged? If you are trying to create a feeder system for the predominant style of car in your region it seems counter-productive.

Cap

We have always thought of them things as trainer wheels. They help if you get in the turn a little fast or try to back it in just a tad too much + if you should happen to flip they sure cushion that contact with the track and eat up a lot of dangerous energy. A lot of guys swing both ways and do quite well either way, great way to start especially if you are related to the driver.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

This is a good topic. It is like watching a professional wrestling battle royal! :8:

I'd like to jump in but I think I'll stay outside the ring and just watch for now.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Steve

Whenever I went to a Pro wrestling match it always looked much safer in the ring with the wrestlers than out there with the local youkles in the bleachers, unless the locals decided to invade the ring.:5:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Yeah, Some start in Mini's but most started in Quarters and Karts. Where was the training wheels there?

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
This is a good topic. It is like watching a professional wrestling battle royal! :8:

I'd like to jump in but I think I'll stay outside the ring and just watch for now.

I was just sitting here thinking, I wonder what Bill would be saying right about now?

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Yeah, Some start in Mini's but most started in Quarters and Karts. Where was the training wheels there?

Charles

1/4 midgets was on asphalt mostly, We raced two years in Go Karts until Doug turned 13 I was never so glad to leave one form of racing in my life. They used the drivers head for a roll bar and them seats pretty well held you in until you stopped rolling. Most tracks always kept at least 2 Ambulances and some time 3, one at the track one on the way to the Hospital and one coming Back from the Hospital.

I felt Much Much better with that big old wing over his head.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Quarter Midgets are a great way for a new driver to learn racing. If you can develop your skills and be successful on a tiny QM track you can race anything anywhere. Some of the better young drivers I have seen started in QMs. It's a good time and relatively inexpensive compared to other forms of racing........and when they flip you just turn them over and away they go!

Most enjoyable time I've ever had with racing was the four years we spent at Mini Indy.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

I've tried to stay to stay out of this, but I just don't have the ability. I am a huge supporter of Bloomington Speedway and hope this class works out for all involved. With that being said, I just don't understand the pros of this new endeavor. Its no secret that all tracks are seeing lower car counts and spectator counts than in years past. Is this due to a shortage of non wing sprintcars in the Midwest? I would say no and would venture to say that there are more cars sitting on stands in a shop than racing on a typical Indiana Friday night. Will this new 305 idea draw these cars out of hiding? Only time will tell. My fear is that the same people that swear "if I could afford an engine I'd be out here" will still be spectating and not racing. I have mini-sprint people tell me this weekly, and my response is always the same. You can run a non-wing 410 in Indiana for the same money as your pumping into your mini-sprint. I feel the current non-wing setup is your most economical and easiest formula to police that is currently out there. For a new guy, he can buy a turn key operation for around 20 grand that is capable of racing and winning. I realize that 20 grand isn't pocket change, but you better have that in your 305 spec motor if you plan on winning races while dragging a wing around. When you start limiting horsepower, things get expensive. My final question, will the paying public come in droves to witness the sheer awesomeness of an underpowered lead sled lumber around the red clay? Only time will tell.

Danny

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

While I'm not a wing fan per se, I'd have to say this is a very interesting move by Bloomington Speedway. For one, they're going to try something that is totally outside the box, as far as Indiana racing programs are concerned. A paradigm shift, if you will. Will it work? I don't know. But, I admire anybody who is willing to take a gamble to shake things up a little bit. And you have to admit, there are few things they could have done that would have generated a bigger dust storm of debate, than what this has. And lively, respectful debate is one the the reasons the man created IOW.

Jerry

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by torqueball:
I've tried to stay to stay out of this, but I just don't have the ability. I am a huge supporter of Bloomington Speedway and hope this class works out for all involved. With that being said, I just don't understand the pros of this new endeavor. Its no secret that all tracks are seeing lower car counts and spectator counts than in years past. Is this due to a shortage of non wing sprintcars in the Midwest? I would say no and would venture to say that there are more cars sitting on stands in a shop than racing on a typical Indiana Friday night. Will this new 305 idea draw these cars out of hiding? Only time will tell. My fear is that the same people that swear "if I could afford an engine I'd be out here" will still be spectating and not racing. I have mini-sprint people tell me this weekly, and my response is always the same. You can run a non-wing 410 in Indiana for the same money as your pumping into your mini-sprint. I feel the current non-wing setup is your most economical and easiest formula to police that is currently out there. For a new guy, he can buy a turn key operation for around 20 grand that is capable of racing and winning. I realize that 20 grand isn't pocket change, but you better have that in your 305 spec motor if you plan on winning races while dragging a wing around. When you start limiting horsepower, things get expensive. My final question, will the paying public come in droves to witness the sheer awesomeness of an underpowered lead sled lumber around the red clay? Only time will tell.

Danny

Danny, I too have tried to stay out of it, if Bloomington thinks it's a good think, let them do it, it's their dollars, not someone's who doesn't own or drive a race car, I guess they think it will be a paying proposition for them, I hope it is, and I don't see it driving off the 410's either, so we'll just all cool down, and wait and see. TQ's have finally got their payoff's up to somewhat close to what it should be, and don't seem to be having any trouble booking races, just wish I could attend more, my car hasn't been on a track a lot in the past 2-3 years, and my trusty diesel dually needs a good romp now and then, but it is what it is, we all have good ideas, till it comes to writing the cks! Bob

Been reading all the post on the 305. I have good 410 spec tired spend $$$$ Ready for a change I thank it will take time an I know a all of other people tired spend. Let stop look at bad and and give it chance. I know change is hard buy it has to start some where. Thank Bloomington speedway taking change.

Mickey smith

I agree with Mickey. I have a good car and no motor...this sounds like a great class.. 410 teams will have a place to sell there used parts and tires. I am in if at all possible

this evening I spoke with a person the runs entire series across the country. He said that we can run the cars wing or non wing depending on what the track promoterwould like to do. I would hope that we would run without the wing and maybe add some special wing showsI believe this would be a great class for Clay County Florida Illinois Speedway and maybe even Chandler Speedway in Evansville.just my thoughts.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by :
I've tried to stay to stay out of this, but I just don't have the ability. I am a huge supporter of Bloomington Speedway and hope this class works out for all involved. With that being said, I just don't understand the pros of this new endeavor. Its no secret that all tracks are seeing lower car counts and spectator counts than in years past. Is this due to a shortage of non wing sprintcars in the Midwest? I would say no and would venture to say that there are more cars sitting on stands in a shop than racing on a typical Indiana Friday night. Will this new 305 idea draw these cars out of hiding? Only time will tell. My fear is that the same people that swear "if I could afford an engine I'd be out here" will still be spectating and not racing. I have mini-sprint people tell me this weekly, and my response is always the same. You can run a non-wing 410 in Indiana for the same money as your pumping into your mini-sprint. I feel the current non-wing setup is your most economical and easiest formula to police that is currently out there. For a new guy, he can buy a turn key operation for around 20 grand that is capable of racing and winning. I realize that 20 grand isn't pocket change, but you better have that in your 305 spec motor if you plan on winning races while dragging a wing around. When you start limiting horsepower, things get expensive. My final question, will the paying public come in droves to witness the sheer awesomeness of an underpowered lead sled lumber around the red clay? Only time will tell.

As for the adding the class, I agree with it being a good new idea as for drawing cars out of hiding, and maybe bringing new owners out of the woodwork to build a car.

And who knows... Maybe the deep pocket 410 guys build one just because. Then you get a big name driver to 'moonlight' and do double duty one night. So last season, the kid who watched in awe as his favorite driver lapped Bloomington, is now on track with HIM in his own class...

What this shows is Bloomington trying new things and changing things in an environment that has been unchanged. This is the first step in growing the sport and trying something new to draw in new folks to the back gate, and possibly new folks to the front gate. Gotta stay on top of things and be willing to take a chance.

Einstein said: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Wilmot Speedway in Wisconsin has just started an entry level sprint car division utilizing the GM 604 crate engine.
The engines run around 6 grand and with a 4 bbl carb on alcohol they put out about 450 horse.
Rebuilds are infrequent and teching is much simpler that the 305 program.

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

I just think they should be non-wing. I get the whole safety aspect, and a lot of people feel safer with the big wing on top. BUT like others have mentioned, I think it would be a lot easier on the smaller 305 when it doesn't have to "drag" the wing. I assume the wing was just for safety, appeal, something new. However, if this is supposed to be a feeder class for the 410's, why not run them without the wing? Or at least add a couple non-wing races to the agenda. In general, I think this is a great idea, gets more guys a shot at getting on the track Friday night, and gives younger guys a shot at getting in a full size sprint. :22:

Re: Bloomington speedway to run 305 racesaver sprints in 201
 

Originally Posted by 98arpy:
Wilmot Speedway in Wisconsin has just started an entry level sprint car division utilizing the GM 604 crate engine.
The engines run around 6 grand and with a 4 bbl carb on alcohol they put out about 450 horse.
Rebuilds are infrequent and teching is much simpler that the 305 program.

Wilmot class is going to be nonwinged! So the winged cars run Bloomington and nonwinged cars run Wilmot, go figure that out! LOL :14:

This class will be running in California next season, primarily at Hanford and Tulare. There has been a lot of interest. So far that interest has come from people who are not currently in the sport and some looking at a better transition from mini sprints. Talking with these people here is what I have learned:

Some have been fans of sprint cars but did not want to invest in a 360 or 410 due to cost. However, that cost was more about fixing bent parts more than the cost of car or engines. Many did not want to immediately hop into a 360 or 410 knowing they may tear up alot of equipment because they would be racing against veteran drivers\teams.

They either do not like mini sprints or did not want to get a mini sprint only to have to sell everything to move to a sprint car. A 305 offers the ability to transition to a 360 or 410 by changing engines.

Sprint cars really are the only division that doesn't have an affordable entry class. Because of this do you think it is smart to expect an entry level driver to just hop into a 360 or 410. I know as a car owner that worries me.

MOWA is allready replacing some former non-wing events.( Gold Crown) This sounds like a nice feeder system for them. Welcome to Indiana. Maybe MOWA will replace non-wing racing at Indiana Midget Week. Hope Iam wrong