Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

i have yet to see anyone answer the original post. SHAMROCK48 did NOT say he didnt enjoy the shows or the format. He asked a simple question....what does USAC bring?? BTW i do believe the promoters could cooperate & do ISW without USAC !!! I too have been USAC'd !!!! hey Rollie get me another sammich lol

I haven't read every post, this may have already mentioned; why not change the order of the tracks to give all the tracks the opportunity to be first or in the first couple? But maybe they all make about the same profit..............

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by streetglider:
i have yet to see anyone answer the original post. SHAMROCK48 did NOT say he didnt enjoy the shows or the format. He asked a simple question....what does USAC bring?? BTW i do believe the promoters could cooperate & do ISW without USAC !!! I too have been USAC'd !!!! hey Rollie get me another sammich lol

I think that the short answer is, stars, cars, and purse. If USAC weren't involved in ISW, then they would most surely schudule against ISW, thereby taking all cars and stars with them that are committed to running for points.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

The stars and cars comments is funny to me. Go to any show that pays $3000 to win in Indiana, guess what, they're all there, without USAC. Schuerenberg, Ballou, Cottle, Clauson,Darland,you name them, it will have them.

What sprint week does do is ratchet up the desire to win. It gives the teams and drivers bragging rights, well earned I add. USAC isn't so much the 800 pound gorilla it once was, maybe just a 400 now, but that's still big. They also bring to the table organization, which some places don't have.

Yes, the tracks could do it on their own , but that would be like herding cats, which ain't easy.

Could things be improved, yes, everything man does can be improved, but the way it works isn't to bad.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

I think Racephoto1 pretty much sums up my opinions as well. But to comment on the group qualifications or not....all tracks aren't laid out the same.
For instance at G.C. the cars leave the pits right in front of the flag stand so they have to take a full lap to get up to speed before taking the green then two laps qual. which for 50 plus cars equals over 150 laps on the track in the same groove for the most part.
As for USAC @ Kokomo the cars come out on the backstretch so they take the green when they get to the flag stand and get er done with 2 laps per car.
The times that I have seen USAC attempt group qualifying they have always given the cars a full hot lap session for each group prior to group quals. Whereas the way Kokomo does it... the hot laps ARE the group qualifications. Which ever way you do it if you can save the track from being completely wore out it would definitely benefit the equality of the qual. times.
I don't think you can blame the track, or people doing the track prep for the track slicking off after all that hot lapping and qualifying of 50 plus cars. With DST it is basically a day race anyway. IMO

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by egh170:
Now USAC has made it smaller and worse.!

In what way?

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Brent Goodnight, do you not remember the days when Gaunt, Griffen, Cline , Sheridan & Wilson amongst others used to make the trek East from Cali? I think that is the point SHAMROCK48 is trying to make here. It is not the quantity of cars that he is talking about!!!! Been involved in racing since you were in diapers & i gotta agree with the Rock on this one. USAC is an antiquated monoply

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by racefan20:
Dont tell me you think USAC wont run against it if they are not sanctioning it. Without them you have.......a weeklong KISS. Anyone remember NAMARS 5-crown. After it became popular USAC decided to run out of state that week.....no more NAMARS 5-crown.

That's right and it is now called Indiana Midget week!

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
I think that the short answer is, stars, cars, and purse. If USAC weren't involved in ISW, then they would most surely schudule against ISW, thereby taking all cars and stars with them that are committed to running for points.

All 12 of them .

Originally Posted by mowerman:
All 12 of them .

Didn't mean it would be a big number, just agreeing with a previous post that there would be some 'top teams' or 'big names' that would follow USAC. For example:

AMSOIL USAC SPRINT CAR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RACE RESULTS: June 8, 2013 – Port Royal, Pennsylvania – Port Royal Speedway – “Eastern Storm”

QUALIFYING: 1. Tracy Hines, 4, Hines-21.120; 2. Kevin Thomas, Jr., 17RW, Dutcher/RW/TriStar-21.212; 3. Daron Clayton, 92, Clayton-21.225; 4. Chase Stockon, 32, 32/TBI-21.406; 5. Dave Darland, 71P, Phillips-21.504; 6. Bryan Clauson, 20, Stewart/Curb-Agajanian-21.600; 7. Levi Jones, 39, Walker-21.663; 8. Robert Ballou, 5, Baldwin-21.715; 9. Shane Cottle, 65, Franckowiak-21.905; 10. Hunter Schuerenberg, 35, Byram-21.962; 11. Nick Drake, 55, Cline-21.973; 12. Chris Windom, 11, Walker-22.006; 13. Brady Bacon, 69, Dynamics-22.008; 14. Landon Simon, 41, Stensland-22.279; 15. Joey Biasi, B1, Biasi-22.642; 16. Kyle Moody, 99M, Moody-22.701; 17. Trevor Utt, U2, Utt-22.909; 18. Tyler Courtney, 23c, Courtney/Anderson-22.966; 19. Mark Bitner, 15, Bitner-23.149; 20. Billy Pauch, Jr., 175, Pietrofitta-23.233; 21. Tim Glatfelter, 50, Strausbaugh-23.238; 22. Dalten Gabbard, 77, Gabbard-23.272; 23. J.R. Berry, 74, Berry-23.924; 24. Mark Smith, 1M, Smith-NT; 25. Denny Gross, 2, Gross-NT; 26. Curt Stroup, 33, Ehrenzeller-NT.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

The powers that be changed Indiana high school basketball playoffs to make it better also, and ruined a good thing. Let's not start getting wild ideas on how to change ISW's and get the same results. Alot of good ideas (and even more bad ideas) on here about running ISW's, but with SRO crowds and 50+ fire-breathing sprint cars in the house, what could be better? I THANK GOD for living in Indiana and an hour away from about 6 different tracks, for a race fan or for race teams and drivers, there's no place better to be, jmho, bob.
p.s. my apologies for the use of the word "GOD", please insert the name of your entity there.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by streetglider:
Brent Goodnight, do you not remember the days when Gaunt, Griffen, Cline , Sheridan & Wilson amongst others used to make the trek East from Cali? I think that is the point SHAMROCK48 is trying to make here. It is not the quantity of cars that he is talking about!!!! Been involved in racing since you were in diapers & i gotta agree with the Rock on this one. USAC is an antiquated monoply

Check out the car counts out west now. The last 3 races at Perris (the home track) drew 29, 28, and 23 cars. The car count at Yuma, Ariz was 18, Santa Maria, Calif. 18 and Tulare, Calif. 17. If they don't travel to these races then there is no way they are coming all the way to Indiana for sprint week. There's a reason guys don't travel as much...it's called MONEY and EXPENSE. I know first hand what it cost to travel that far for a couple of weeks. I'm going back to 2004 and it was OVER $15,000!!

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
An good topic this is.

It would be interesting to see the $$$ breakdown as for what a track has to pay out for a USAC show, how much sponsor $$$ USAC brings with them, how much sponsor $$$ the track has to come up with, etc. On one hand the tracks would not have to pay USAC anything to appear. On the other hand, putting it all together would be a bear of a job.

Pennsylvania Sprint Week runs their sprint week every year w/o a sanctioning body, if I am correct. It would be interesting to see how their system of $$$ works. It seems like a successful platform for them.

PA. speedweek pays no less than $5000. to win every race plus 1 $7000.00 and 1 $10,000.00 to win. Thats what brings all the cars. Lots of cars= lots of fans. And thats why it is very successful platform with out a sanctioning body. Also all tracks involved work with each other for the week so no one runs against each other during the week.

http://paspeedweeks.com/ tracks and payouts.

Not sure what Indiana sprint week pays but I'm pretty sure that none of the races pays that much to win. And they are running the same cars minus 2 wings!

On the other hand I was out in Indiana for the first 3 races of ISW and only because of USAC's Eastern storm coming to PA the last 2 years. And I know of a few guys from section A at "The Burg" that now want to come to PA for the Eastern storm. So USAC brings cars and people to ISW. And in the future will bring fans and cars to PA.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

I correct myself,....

http://www.usacracing.com/assets/fil...SprintWeek.pdf

Although this seems like a scam.
* Non Member Car Owners deductions (-$100.00 for all Feature positions).

Originally Posted by HARFprez:
The powers that be changed Indiana high school basketball playoffs to make it better also, and ruined a good thing. Let's not start getting wild ideas on how to change ISW's and get the same results. Alot of good ideas (and even more bad ideas) on here about running ISW's, but with SRO crowds and 50+ fire-breathing sprint cars in the house, what could be better?

I second your motion, Prez!

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

From my point of view, no matter what sanctioning body is running the show, if you put 7 non-wing sprint races together like sprint week in Indiana I AM going to take vacation and be there. I love this time of year! A great occasion to meet up with old and new friends and enjoy a common interest of sprint car racing!

I'm not exactly a fan of the USAC format but, I wouldn't miss it as long as i'm able to be there..

No matter who is the sanctioning body, Non-wing sprint car racing is by far some of the best racing to watch as well as one of the best values for the $. :6:

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:

QUALIFYING: 1. Tracy Hines, 4, Hines-21.120; 2. Kevin Thomas, Jr., 17RW, Dutcher/RW/TriStar-21.212; 3. Daron Clayton, 92, Clayton-21.225; 4. Chase Stockon, 32, 32/TBI-21.406; 5. Dave Darland, 71P, Phillips-21.504; 6. Bryan Clauson, 20, Stewart/Curb-Agajanian-21.600; 7. Levi Jones, 39, Walker-21.663; 8. Robert Ballou, 5, Baldwin-21.715; 9. Shane Cottle, 65, Franckowiak-21.905; 10. Hunter Schuerenberg, 35, Byram-21.962; 11. Nick Drake, 55, Cline-21.973; 12. Chris Windom, 11, Walker-22.006; 13. Brady Bacon, 69, Dynamics-22.008; 14. Landon Simon, 41, Stensland-22.279; 15. Joey Biasi, B1, Biasi-22.642; 16. Kyle Moody, 99M, Moody-22.701; 17. Trevor Utt, U2, Utt-22.909; 18. Tyler Courtney, 23c, Courtney/Anderson-22.966; 19. Mark Bitner, 15, Bitner-23.149; 20. Billy Pauch, Jr., 175, Pietrofitta-23.233; 21. Tim Glatfelter, 50, Strausbaugh-23.238; 22. Dalten Gabbard, 77, Gabbard-23.272; 23. J.R. Berry, 74, Berry-23.924; 24. Mark Smith, 1M, Smith-NT; 25. Denny Gross, 2, Gross-NT; 26. Curt Stroup, 33, Ehrenzeller-NT.

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Minus the PA guys that would be a huge hit to any promoter. The sprintweek show has been the only money maker some tracks have had this year.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by streetglider:
Brent Goodnight, do you not remember the days when Gaunt, Griffen, Cline , Sheridan & Wilson amongst others used to make the trek East from Cali? I think that is the point SHAMROCK48 is trying to make here. It is not the quantity of cars that he is talking about!!!! Been involved in racing since you were in diapers & i gotta agree with the Rock on this one. USAC is an antiquated monoply

Yes I do. In fact I worked at Kokomo during that time. I also noticed none of those guys still race. Troy Cline is still involved with Nick Drake and they have been at every race during Sprintweek. Since you have been around since I was in diapers surely you remember the pre USAC Sprintweek. I don't remember having any trouble getting a seat, and I don't remember the pits being crowded. In fact I I don't remember many campers or out of state plates. I think it is fine the way it is.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

[QUOTE=racen857;342431]PA. speedweek pays no less than $5000. to win every race plus 1 $7000.00 and 1 $10,000.00 to win. Thats what brings all the cars. Lots of cars= lots of fans. And thats why it is very successful platform with out a sanctioning body. Also all tracks involved work with each other for the week so no one runs against each other during the week. [QUOTE]

Also as a side note,... All cars get to run a heat race, B main or what ever is needed. That way a car goes out last for time trials when the track has slowed down 2 seconds still gets to race everyone else at the slower speeds. I have seen many guys come from the last spot (12-13) of a heat race and make the show. Or even most times they would run 5 heats if there are 50 cars, 10 in each heat. take 4 from each heat then 4 from the B main.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Theres been guys come from the NQ's to the heats and make the show without having to go to the B.

:43:: about 12 cars going on the trailer after they got TWO shots to make it. Half of those knew they had little chance to begin with but were racing to be part of it and to judge for themselves, How far they had to go!

Not trying to insult the guys not transferring from the NQ's but they get the same as every other non Transfer from the B's. In a way it actually saves them money. $100 and they can watch the feature like the rest of us. Although Im sure they'd want to be in it.

The format was in print before anyone every came to a track, makes no sense to pitch a hissy fit about it.

Could USAC make some changes? Id be ok with the five heat, transfer three, C&B mains. Isn't going to take any more time than two NQ's.

The fact is, Someone would find a reason to complain about that.

:deadhorse:

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Agreed Charles!
:deadhorse:
Unsubscribing from this one.

I will say I have my own ideas on lineups. I knew prior to coming usac's format and rules, yet chose to come knowing where I stood. I get 3 hot laps then straight to qualifying for 2 laps, all trying to learn a track and a car. We have never even seen any of these tracks and never raced a car with a 410 or without a wing really. I knew if I made it into the top 32 I would be lucky. Almost made it Friday. The crowd is why I came. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. Well Indy has the best. And I have to say Indy is speeding me up a million times. You can't mess around here. The atmosphere is amazing and people are great. Usac runs a great show. Be thankful for what y'all do have because its not like this where I am from. Indiana is awesome. Nathan Moore.

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Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Its been great having you Nathan!

Its the same showing up at a WoO show or ASCS never competing against them before. Without a lot of laps and top $$ equiptment. You have to be a darn good driver to overcome what they have.. In fact in some ways I feel it would be easier to make a WoO show as the wings reduce passing in the heats if they stay green and you start out front.


You want laps?
Saturday, Paragon, Everyone runs a heat, Everyone runs a feature. The payoff isn't great but you can get laps Most of Indiana's greats have turned many a night either there in a sprint car or in another division of these same tracks before they ever got to the top level

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by ShamrockRacin'48G:
ok hang on.....like I posted originally, Im not trying to really ruffle any feathers, I have no axe to grind....I think this week is the greatest week of the year, just like you do, and yes it is wildly successful..aside from
TQ29m, I think you all may be missing the point....What is it that USAC brings to the show? (so far, I have heard organization/scheduling and some kinda sponsorship)....I just wanna know what does USAC bring to the party?

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Not trying to be rude.....but if you have to ask...chances are you will not understand.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Well purple I do understand and thats pretty weak of you to imply that I don't....the whole point of my post was that maybe ISW doesn't need USAC to sanction at a time when car counts and dirt tracks are on a real rebound in Indiana, and I thank the Good Lord for that...look at all the other threads on here, improvements could be made...sometimes I think USAC suffers from being a bit complacent, and little too comfortable being the big dog. The real point here, and it is my opinion so you cant take it away, is that this week belongs to the racers, car owners, fans and track owners, not to the almighty United States Auto Club. When this week is over, racing in Indiana will continue, it won't shrivel up and die because USAC went home. What would be wrong with a response from USAC stating something like: 1.) We bring 100 years of experience and organization to the table. 2.) We bring the credibility to lure drivers from other parts of the country. 3.) We provide tracks and participants unequalled insurance coverage 4.) We provide benefits for retired racers...See an answer like that would at least lend some credibility to them, but you will never hear these things, just as you will never know many other USAC secrets. I think the people with real skin in the game may (or may not) agree with me, but kinda like NASCAR, its not good business badmouthing your sanctioning body. But for people like me, I have the right to point out that ISW is successful as hell and it may be "in spite of" or "in addition to" and not "because of" USAC.....now can we get back to racin?

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

You think USAC brass needs to respond to a question of their credibility on an Internet message board to lend credibility to themselves? :14:

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by racen857:
PA. speedweek pays no less than $5000. to win every race plus 1 $7000.00 and 1 $10,000.00 to win. Thats what brings all the cars. Lots of cars= lots of fans. And thats why it is very successful platform with out a sanctioning body. Also all tracks involved work with each other for the week so no one runs against each other during the week.

http://paspeedweeks.com/ tracks and payouts.

Not sure what Indiana sprint week pays but I'm pretty sure that none of the races pays that much to win. And they are running the same cars minus 2 wings!

On the other hand I was out in Indiana for the first 3 races of ISW and only because of USAC's Eastern storm coming to PA the last 2 years. And I know of a few guys from section A at "The Burg" that now want to come to PA for the Eastern storm. So USAC brings cars and people to ISW. And in the future will bring fans and cars to PA.

Thanks for the reply, '857. I still would like to know who goes out and gets the sponsors, how much money the sponsors kick in, do the sponsors hang on for every race of the week, and is the pot divvied up equally at the end of the week. They are paying out GOOD money for PA Speed Week and said money has to come from somewhere other than the gate at the tracks.

Sounds like the PA promoters/owners have a good system going however it shakes out in the end.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by ShamrockRacin'48G:
Well purple I do understand and thats pretty weak of you to imply that I don't....the whole point of my post was that maybe ISW doesn't need USAC to sanction at a time when car counts and dirt tracks are on a real rebound in Indiana, and I thank the Good Lord for that...look at all the other threads on here, improvements could be made...sometimes I think USAC suffers from being a bit complacent, and little too comfortable being the big dog. The real point here, and it is my opinion so you cant take it away, is that this week belongs to the racers, car owners, fans and track owners, not to the almighty United States Auto Club. When this week is over, racing in Indiana will continue, it won't shrivel up and die because USAC went home. What would be wrong with a response from USAC stating something like: 1.) We bring 100 years of experience and organization to the table. 2.) We bring the credibility to lure drivers from other parts of the country. 3.) We provide tracks and participants unequalled insurance coverage 4.) We provide benefits for retired racers...See an answer like that would at least lend some credibility to them, but you will never hear these things, just as you will never know many other USAC secrets. I think the people with real skin in the game may (or may not) agree with me, but kinda like NASCAR, its not good business badmouthing your sanctioning body. But for people like me, I have the right to point out that ISW is successful as hell and it may be "in spite of" or "in addition to" and not "because of" USAC.....now can we get back to racin?

This response to your own post seems to support by implication that in fact you do mean to ruffle feathers and have an axe to grind. What USAC brings to non-wing racing is the same thing WoO brings to winged racing. i.e. name recognition and branding. In all business, branding is important because it strikes a chord of recognition with people. there are always exceptions where regional races run quite successfully, but in the case of ISW the USAC branding brings much broader recognition.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
Thanks for the reply, '857. I still would like to know who goes out and gets the sponsors, how much money the sponsors kick in, do the sponsors hang on for every race of the week, and is the pot divvied up equally at the end of the week. They are paying out GOOD money for PA Speed Week and said money has to come from somewhere other than the gate at the tracks.

Sounds like the PA promoters/owners have a good system going however it shakes out in the end.

To my knowledge each track gets it's own sponsors. I'm sure there are sponsors that do the whole week at every track, but mostly it is a track by track basis.

The front gate probley pays most of it anyway. USAC total payout is around $23,000.00 even if you have a $25,000 payout thats only 1000 fans through the front gate at $25 each, plus pits at $30 for another 500 people. $15,000 more in pocket for support class plus food stand $$$. It's not a hard thing to pull off. :3: You just have to get people in the seats and the $$$ takes care of it's self.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by racen857:
On the other hand I was out in Indiana for the first 3 races of ISW and only because of USAC's Eastern storm coming to PA the last 2 years. And I know of a few guys from section A at "The Burg" that now want to come to PA for the Eastern storm. So USAC brings cars and people to ISW. And in the future will bring fans and cars to PA.

This answers the original question.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
Didn't mean it would be a big number, just agreeing with a previous post that there would be some 'top teams' or 'big names' that would follow USAC. For example:

AMSOIL USAC SPRINT CAR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RACE RESULTS: June 8, 2013 – Port Royal, Pennsylvania – Port Royal Speedway – “Eastern Storm”

QUALIFYING: 1. Tracy Hines, 4, Hines-21.120; 2. Kevin Thomas, Jr., 17RW, Dutcher/RW/TriStar-21.212; 3. Daron Clayton, 92, Clayton-21.225; 4. Chase Stockon, 32, 32/TBI-21.406; 5. Dave Darland, 71P, Phillips-21.504; 6. Bryan Clauson, 20, Stewart/Curb-Agajanian-21.600; 7. Levi Jones, 39, Walker-21.663; 8. Robert Ballou, 5, Baldwin-21.715; 9. Shane Cottle, 65, Franckowiak-21.905; 10. Hunter Schuerenberg, 35, Byram-21.962; 11. Nick Drake, 55, Cline-21.973; 12. Chris Windom, 11, Walker-22.006; 13. Brady Bacon, 69, Dynamics-22.008; 14. Landon Simon, 41, Stensland-22.279; 15. Joey Biasi, B1, Biasi-22.642; 16. Kyle Moody, 99M, Moody-22.701; 17. Trevor Utt, U2, Utt-22.909; 18. Tyler Courtney, 23c, Courtney/Anderson-22.966; 19. Mark Bitner, 15, Bitner-23.149; 20. Billy Pauch, Jr., 175, Pietrofitta-23.233; 21. Tim Glatfelter, 50, Strausbaugh-23.238; 22. Dalten Gabbard, 77, Gabbard-23.272; 23. J.R. Berry, 74, Berry-23.924; 24. Mark Smith, 1M, Smith-NT; 25. Denny Gross, 2, Gross-NT; 26. Curt Stroup, 33, Ehrenzeller-NT.

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Originally Posted by :
Minus the PA guys that would be a huge hit to any promoter. The sprintweek show has been the only money maker some tracks have had this year.

Minus the Pa guys you have around 18 cars, For a normal week show most people in Pa would not go for 18 cars. Or other side without USAC we have a 8 car field for a non-wing race. Who is going to pay to see that??? Once again this answers the original question. USAC brings CARS, cars bring fans, fans bring bring $$$$$$.

Re: Could ISW happen without USAC?
 

Well...read everything on this thread as I found it all very interesting. Whether ISW is a USAC deal or not, whether it's eventually operated by another organization or not or groups of organizers the bottom line is ISW is a famous special deal and the Eastern Storm is getting that way as well. To live in Indiana would be a dream come true for a lot of non wing drivers. All those tracks to run on! USAC no doubt has some things to offer competitors that other non wing groups can't afford. I applaud them! I wish and hope we can arrange similar deals for our teams someday. It's no picnic promoting races whether you're running a series or a track. Please enjoy what you have and remember, no other area on Earth has as much great non wing racing as what Indiana has. I'm so frickin' jealous! Whatever you do, keep ISW goin' (and the Eastern Storm) and enjoy it! Word is next year you'll likely see a few teams show up from the Great White North. Thank you INDIANA and thank you America for inventing sprint cars!!!.Greatest race cars ever imagined. Wings are for airplanes.