Add one more squared tank to the chili bowl line up!!!

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It was more or less a question Don. Im still just really confused as to why its a big deal?

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Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

At this point in the thread, I have read so many wild and crazy comments, many of them by anonymous authors with hateful statements that I'm not sure where to begin. I'm going to speak for myself and no one else that I have been working behind the scenes for quite some time with the promoter shoring up some of the gray area rules and their enforcement. Tony Barhorst is a terrific promoter and a good friend of mine and we should be thankful that there is a place to run the type of cars that show up at Fort Wayne and I own one of them. Let me say that I sincerely believe that he is interested in enforcing rules for everyone but the bottom line is that he has the right to run his event as he sees fit. We as car owners must chose whether or not we want to participate at his promotion.

For those that have posted all kinds of fantasy statements etc etc.. Well I didn't see you anywhere near my pit when a discussion was taking place about tail tanks, so please stop posting quotes and scenarios that never happened.

For the record, I could care very little about who, what and where about a square tail tank. Now, when I arrived on Thursday at Fort Wayne, there was already a discussion brewing amongst several concerned people about the tank and that was whether it was legal or not. I mostly watched what was taking place. I had no discussion with anyone about any tail tank except one member of my pit crew who informed me what was going. Allegedly the owner of the car was saying the tank was USAC legal and apparently that was the final decision as the tail tank stayed on the car. I had nothing top do with any of this.

I have a huge and costly investment in the racing business. When I pay an entry fee and pit passes, and that amounts to paying to entertain the promoter's audience, I expect the rules to be enforced. Let me say again, I expect the rules to be enforced. If they aren't, then throw the rule book out and let's just have a free for all and call it that.

The second point I want to make is that there is a bigger issue here and that is the cost of new midget parts that a few can afford and drive up the expense of owning a midget. Despite what some of you people sitting in the stands think, midget racing is on the ropes except the POWRi promotions and ARDC on the east coast. WE don't need one more part added to what we already have as an expense. This same scenario has been played out time and time again with money, greed, ******** etc driving the costs higher and higher to operate a team.

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

SO! Great minds think alike. Think about it. All that weight swinging around 2 feet behind the rear axle, I think they call it "instant moment center" or something like that. When you sling a car in the turn that 50 or 60 pounds of fuel develops a centrifugal force and being leveraged way behind the rear axle tends to pull the back of the car out of line.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Was at that race at speedrome first race for the munchin ,thought dam that's ugly but it was fast. Been a fan of Mike ever since.

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Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

If only that last post was your initial post! Holy mackerel, DonMoore finally has a post that I can't argue with. It's a Christmas Miracle!
-Steve C.

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

The best thing to keep in mind when writing rules for race cars is. "KISS":6:

When rules start to specify number size, body shape or color contrast or sponsors names or slogans, you might have gone a bit far. Mike did run that little car for years with a square tank and I do think at the last he had to switch to a midget type tank, and then they added another rule or two and pretty soon like most guys that get kicked around he threw his hands up and bid adue to USAC.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

:deadhorse:
:44:
:43:::47:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

It's called Polar Moment of Inertia..

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Here is my take on why the tank was allowed. I had no discussion on the tank being USAC legal. In my opinion, it is not. The bottom line is, I allowed it because I did not feel it gave him any advantage on concrete.

I myself personally love the swooped back traditional tail tank. They make these cars works of art IMO.

:23:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

That's what I said dang it. I got to get my "hard drive" de fragged I'm close to crashing it I think?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

It's an anti spin thing for some.
:35:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

This was the 1st time in many years I didn't attend at least one night of the Rumble. From what I see in the results "traditional" midgets seemed to fair ok? Can any guide what were actual "pavement" cars, "purpose built-indoor only", and even combos??? One thing even the NSSN website still did this fall was listed all chassis builders and engines from Turkey Night.

Now, not trying to start anything else, but am wondering, was 31 cars taking time on Sat one of the lowest in some time? ...always wish a COUPLE more cars could at least start the feat...(I understand business/etc is involved)....

Jason Dull
815 494 6002
jdull99@hotmail.com
jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

PS - Don, I hope I'm not going off topic on your post...you know I'd elect you President of Midget racing!

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

hahaha Jason, you're one of the few people on here that actually talk about topics with some intelligence. Hope you are well on the way to recovery.

BTW, the racing at the Rumble was excellent this year.

Don Moore

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

The car was in the lead of the feature both nights when it retired and didnt start there.

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Could someone maybe post a picture of the #2 car and the John Ivy car?:11; They both reminded me of a old super modified. I think one of the best parts of the rumble is seeing cars that all look diffrent for a change.:8:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

so last year was the year of the tire.This year is the year of the tail tank. Thanks Don, now I know what soap box you are standing on this year. How about a new rule for 2013--get rid of what ever parts-cars you have and buy what Don has on his car. That will save midget racing. So why is it that a car made 25 years ago is still the best small track-indoor car ever made?

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

First, excellent racing at Ft.Wayne this year. To win you had to work for it, no one won from the pole.

As for the square tail of Tony's, they ran one on a Champ Dirt car in the 60's and 70's, so this isn't new at all. Some people just seem to forget the history of the sport.

Here are Ivy's badger looking 600, and Stewart's bob tail.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8363/8...438488c9_o.jpg
IMG_4874 copy by uncloose1, on Flickr


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8...0e4285b6_o.jpg
IMG_4947 copy by uncloose1, on Flickr
Ivy is the 94

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Addititional concerns to me would be tire treatments and lead filled nerf bars . If those are allowed along with square fuel cells put it in the rules and we can all make a choice .

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

I am looking to have the 2013 Rumble rules in place EARLY. There will be changes made.

In regard to the square tank issue, I will make a change to address the tanks for the midgets. The tank had no effect on the performance of the car. IMO the car looked better with the swoop back tank. There will be a line in the rules mandating them.

I regard to the nerf bars and tire treatments, that is going to be the focus of our tech. The rules are going to come out early...and I guarantee you that we will be taking bars off of cars to check them. There is going to be a lot of wrenching taking those bars off. I better have a nerf bar vendor in place.

We will also focus on the tire prep.

One final observation. Look at the drive Bobby East had in the most traditional midget out there. Ran to second both nights. Dropped to 4th the first night. The kid is a good shoe who love to race.

Next years Fort Wayne dates are Fri. Dec 27 and Saturday, Dec. 28.

Happy New Rule Year!
:32:

Follow @rumbleseries on Twitter

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Tony

There is a device out there called "ultrasonic thickness tester' Just hold it on the nerf bar and it will tell you how thick the wall thickness is from .049" to .875" I would assume .875 might be a bit thick.

I think You need some 1000cc midgets in your mix for next year.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Mr. Anonymous,

I have kept quiet about the tire situation involving the same owner of the square tail tank. But since you brought it up, it was last year when the owner showed up with special tires built for him by the purple tire company. A clear violation of the rule book. This person has the "free pass" mindset, specifically bypassing Don Kenyon, the ONLY dealer for indoor tires, and showing up with said tires with the purpose of beating up on the mom and pop midget teams that come to Fort Wayne annually. This was a classless act on his part and demonstrates how far this guy will go to, again, beat up on common ordinary people who abide by the rules and purchase tires according to the rule book. Again, I am just amazed by the number of people, including you sir, Mr. Anonymous, now trying to beat up on me, a supporter of fair and just midget racing for all. Bullying is being addressed across the United States and needs to be stopped. If you want to applaud this kind of behavior, that is your free right. But the people in the stands this past weekend got it right when the car went out of the arena on the fork lift. Na na na na, hey hey hey good bye. The people spoke about this nonsense and justly right with their applause and cheers.

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

1. A square bumper is much harder to get spun out! I have seen a conventional tank with a square bumper. That was ugly.
2. If you change a rule start with the limiting the size of the front bumpers.
3. As one mentioned many of the mini-sprints had square tanks under a cover, one had the fuel tank in front of the rear wheels.
4. Midgets were always the home for new ideas. I love the appearance of the Moore and Gamester cars, but real midgets were innovative. Leffler had a locking rear end once, Cornell had a car with no front frame. About every car had a different kind of engine. Like the #10 & 88 MWR cars. That was what midgets were about, especially indoors.

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

so the square tail tank is actually a tank...or a shell over a standard tank... :10:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

What car was that? Top 5 cars were definitely straight axle

It is up to Tony Barhorst to enforce the rules. I am curious what he said when you spoke to him about these matters, Don? I would hope that you did talk to him.

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Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

At the time, both deals were addressed to the promoter by other people AFAIK. IDK, Despite what a lot of people think, I wasn't involved in either one. He will address these and other new rules, count on it.

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

This whole conversation is just plain stupid therefore I don't have anything else to add.:10:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

I vote that you can run whatever tail tank shape you want , I like both the traditional & the square tail as it brings a non conformist , anti cookie cutter everyone has to look the same mentality

Diversity is the Spice of Life !

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

I agree Bill.......I just wanted to be lucky poster no. 69.....Winner..Winner..........


dang.....even missed that by one.........

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

I thought i heard the #2 car missing down the straightaway during the feature the first night right before he pulled off. The fans by me mostly were making noise that he pulled off. It sounded more like AHHHHH then BOOOO to me. Maybe next year they should promote someone with a name like RONNIE ZIGAFOOSE or PETER DRAGON and see how many butts that puts in the seats!:10:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

HaHa I got in before you LOLLLL !!!!!

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Here is the story on the illegal tire. It made it past our tech, and was only reported to me by a long time veteran of the sport after the race on night 1. I went over to look at the car, and asked that it be taken off. They replaced it with a legal tire, and still went out to win night 2.

I was upset our tech missed it. They were told to watch for it this year. It just got by us. Hoosier gave the tire to Tony.

Prior to last years race, I sent the rules to TSR, and spoke with their crew. The Munchkin had to take off the large oil tank that they had on it from when it was purchased from Mike Fedorcak. They made all the changes ordered by rule. The left side of cars were getting out of control with weight before then.

I wish I had the video of 1999 when Jon Heydenreich let Tony hop into the Wild Goose, a totally conventional car. He started 17th and put on a CLINIC on slicing through the field with NO contact on the way to the lead.

The exhibition brought a tear to the eye of a few hardened veterans of midget racing.

There is a reason Roger Penske offered Tony a ride in the Indy 500. He can flat out drive anything.

:23:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Got an indoor race coming to Kellog Arena Batlle Creek MI, already 2 races this year. People sayin it's pretty good racing, don't believe they have full size midgets but plenty of other classes:31:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Peeps cheating @ racing say it ain't so LOLLL !!!

Chris Economaki used to point out Sprint Cars drew huge crowds before it became homogenized cookie cutter like

Same with Indy Car when innovation & out thinking or down right cheating was killed off so went the crowds

NastyCar is doing the same thing with the COT

Different approaches to cars is good (like diff tail shapes)

Remember Peeps want to Boo the Black hats more than they want to cheer the white hats

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Roy rings the bell on target!...I remember being at the 1977 Indy 500...AJ had been dominating for two decades in midgets, sprints, champ cars etc. I bet a quarter of the crowd at least was rooting against him. Now they cheer every 4th place finish by his team.

:32:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

Although everyone seems to talk down of Mr Moore! I would like to thank you for fielding cars in this very pour economy! Also would like to thank you for giving drivers FREE rides! I have met you and you are a very nice respectful person! I hope to see the #10 Midget slinging some Indiana dirt in 2013!

:6:

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

@ Tony RingaLingaDingDingDing LOLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe when I grow up I can be a big time promoter like TB !

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

here you go!

Re: Midget Square Tail Tank
 

See Butt Ugly was alive and well even then.