Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Thats my whole point, Sure there are a few top teams missing from any regular show, But a LOCAL show with 6-10 of them and the locals battling and having a better chance of making it with 5-6 heats and two consi's is sorry, IMHO BETTER and FAR CHEAPER.

Im clueless, but I grew up watching Milburn, Gaines, Wilkerson, Gordon, Saldana, Krebs running local shows and putting on some DAMN FINE RACING. we still have it today and USACs format is PREVENTATIVE TO THAT.

Theres great racers all over the country that won't join, run or enter USAC races for those reasons and for the COST of doing it.

Be honest with yourself, You can be the best damn driver in the country and on many tracks unless you have all the money tied up in the car that Kahne/Stewart and VERY FEW OTHERS HAVE you'll be lucky to get out of a non qualifiers you sure aren't going to set track records qualifying as these guys do on a tacky track..

The Honest thing of it is, Most drivers and teams aren't full time nor will ever be, They have families to support, full time jobs to have insurance on them ect and cannot afford the 40g motor and two or three tires a night. They do it for the love of the sport, The competition of it and friendships and FUN, Not to be the next Nascar star. Thats why most of them run several more shows than USAC. Yet the teams stay at home, Im guessing mainly due to the cost of running and keeping equiptment to chase a championship..

Without em, There isn't going to be a future as the big time sponsors and car owners ect come and go. You have to set up something clear cut, doable by all parties and make it more interesting than your local track to make it work.

Chuck

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Chuck,

I think you misunderstood me.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you stating that you want more cars to be part of the show. Everyone runs a heat. Then as much alphabet soup as it takes to get to the feature?

Doesn't another competitor want "tow money" for all cars that race?

How can USAC ask the promoter for a few thousand extra dollars to accomplish those goals when competitors will race somewhere for $1,000, $1,200 or $1,400 to win.

Let's bump up the grandstand admission an extra $5 for Sprint Week to pay for everyone to start a heat and get $100 if they don't make the feature.

Is that what you want?

Or would you rather pay $10 to see the competition that showed up to race at Twin Cities?

Sandy

PS:
I love local sprint car races and am in no way knocking the competition that shows up to put on great races at our local dirt tracks.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Kevin Miller and Jason Smith were hired to turn USAC around. And that is going to take time. You don't restore a rusty old car that has been sitting outside for decades by simply throwing a coat of paint on it. And you will not turn USAC around after decades of questionable decisions in a season or two. Years ago the racing was enough to fill the stands at most events. That is not true today. There are too many other choices for the discretionary dollars of the fans. You must make your series an event, a can't miss once or twice a year happening in your area. Running 50% or more of the schedule in Indiana just will not cut it. Like the WoO USAC will have to travel to many areas of the country, running no more than two or three shows in each area. In order to make that feasible for the competitors the races will have to pay $10K or more to win with special events such as Oskaloosa and the Perris Nationals with their $30K to win. The bottom end of the purse will need to be substantially increased to encourage competitors to travel. Marketing will need to reach in different directions to enlighten the public about USAC and attract new fans to the speedways. If motocross can fill stadiums with 25,000 or more fans than USAC can, with proper marketing and promoting, do it as well. But it will take time. Give Kevin Miller and Jason McCord the time to accomplish what they were hired for. We all just might be winners when it's over.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

I may be the only person on this board that feels this way, but I keep hoping that an existing or new series will pop up and wipe USAC, as far as sprints are concerned, off the map. I say sprints because I think midgets are generally garbage, and dirt cars are great but too much of a niche taste.
I know, I know, all the history buffs here will mop the floor with me for saying that, but that's kinda the way I look at it these days. The glory years of the 50s and 60s are over. To steal a quote from Rick Pitino: Foyt, Herk and Branson aren't walking through that door. The crowds, following and promotion you saw back then aren't walking through that door. Reading and Langhorne aren't walking through that door.
After all the (justified) ******** we've seen on here about USAC, why not vote for change? It's no secret that USAC has many, many flaws. That's been true for 25 years. From the shortsighted rule of the 70s that kept drivers from running other series, to the ill-conceived late-80s trial with wings, to the mishandling of probably thousands of judgement calls over the years, to its current spate of problems, the issues have been nonstop.
So, why not go out on a wing and a prayer and make an old idea new? I know, the economic climate is piss poor. But with the right amount of balls, business sense and brains, a cohesive, semi-national, non-wing series really could happen. Get a committed title sponsor, get the backing of all the significant midwestern promoters and a handful of the southern, east coast and west coast ones, and hit the road for a 50-race schedule. Let the best sprint car drivers earn a living through your series.
Maybe the MSCS is a start, who knows. But, if done correctly it's better than the current situation. Hey, it worked for Ted Johnson.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Sandy, Thats exactly what Im saying, Several top teams along with the normal racers and as much racing in the top class as possible is whats exciting to me.

Im getting that at about every track in indiana without some sanction, Then I show up to one of those shows and half the guys are loaded up after 8 laps.

I like Larry Beck as much as I like Levi Jones and I PAY TO SEE THEM RACE? Oh, thats called a true fan. :)

Lets get another thing cleared up, Tow money is basically teams own money that they get a little bit back, Only the 5-10 or so in the B is gonna get 200 and if each team brings three and a driver, The tracks still ahead.. IMHO it be far more profitable for a promotor to get more cars and the fans and crews they bring with them and all the pop and burgers they would purchase?

Chuck, given equal distances for a MSCS show at Haubstadt and a Eldora USAC show, Id choses Haubstadt 100 percent of the time, Why? More racing and not only some top teams but the weekly racer as well.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

can you tell me what is wrong with the competition that showed up at twin cities? i have seen short,gardner,standrough,bland jr,puterbaugh,boesplugh,jones,and i can go on and on and yes i only gave $10 to see it.. dont know about chuck but with competition like that i will take that anytime and can afford to take the whole family

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Dwight, Your wise and articulate. I agree and what I can't say so Elequently. IT'S got to be something far supperior to what you can get for far less at the local track in order to travel to, Pay more for and get more fans interested in.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

BINGO, That or its got to be far superior to what they are offering to choose USAC over it.

Brownstown had 44 cars for 4000 to win? 25 dollar gate and 35 dollar pit pass, TC had 35 cars for 1200 to win. Ten dollar addmission and 25 dollar pit passes.

Who got the better show? Maybe Brownstown with less support classes and from what I hear some great racing.

Im saying if you choose Twin Cities, You still had a excellent show for far less and quite honestly there are fans that want to see the Crates, Bombers, Cruisers and mini sprints too.

Theres not much more that I can add to it

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

oops

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

I never mentioned that I expect show up money. I expect every racer that is there should recieve some prize money. Going home with nothing is a slap in the face. The entry fee has nothing to do with the promoters but is from USAC. It is over and above the pit pass. If I were a promoter I would force USAC to get rid of both the entry fee and not paying everyone. The promoters are the ones losing the most because of this. Less cars less revenue. like I said a minimum of four people on average enter the pits with each car. Then add all the family and friends with each car that either choose the stands or pits. Take Brownstown for example I know for sure I had 10 people in the pits just because I went there to race. They rode with us including the 6 I paid for. I also know of 8 people in the stands. Lets total that $350.00 for pits and $200.00 from the stands. That does not include some of my uncles and aunts that I dont know if they were there. That is $550.00 to the promoter. Well if I am promoter and I know that I am going to lose that income from just 1 driver not being there I am going to be upset. Multiply that times every driver that decides the same thing and it adds up quick. So if I am a promoter I would gladly pay 90.00 more per car in sanctioning fee to make sure those guys come back. It is simple to fix. In the contract state every car over 36 cars is $90.00 added to the purse payable after the event. $40.00 can go to USAC saving us the entry fee and $50.00 for every car that didnt transfer through the non qualifiers. Or best case scenerio find a non qualifiers race sponsor for all season and that money goes to those racers. Again not expecting show up money just some money for competing and a thank you for being there supporting the race.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Lucas Oil Late Models - May 16 at Farley Iowa

$10,000 to win - $35 pit pass - $100 entry fee

Grandstands:
$25 adult - $20 senior - $20 13 to 18 - kids 12 and under free with paying adult

World of Outlaw Late Models - May 16 at Attica Raceway Park
$10,000 to win - $35 pit pass - entry fee ???

Grandstands:
$30 adult - $15 students 11 to 15 - kids 10 and under free

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about late models (except a whole lot of them like to run the same numbers). I don't know what the rest of the purse is, what the format is, if you have to pay a fee to race with them if you are not a member, etc.

But I do know they race for a heck of a lot more money than the USAC sprints do. Why?

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Yes Sandy they do race for alot more money than we do. I also do not know their purse. But I would assume that everyone that particpates would recieve some prize money. I know for sure that Woo sprint car races there are no entry fees. They also pay everyone that shows up and pay big show up money to their top 10 to 20 drivers. I would not have complained as much about the entry fee if I would have recieved money for participating. But I still believe entry fees are wrong.
Also Sandy in no way am I arguing with you just discussing issues. I respect you and your opinions. You have been around the sport for a long time and you help me see some things I do not think about. But I will never change my mind on this issue I am hard headed on this one.lol
See you at the track.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Kevin,

I do agree with you on the Brownstown USAC race and not getting anything in return after paying a substantial amount to compete. I just don't see what the solution is.

If enough people boycott the USAC shows (both competitors and fans) then all we will have left is local shows. Local shows are great for the fans (cost less money to get in), give the competitors a local place to race (less cost to participate but also a lesser purse).

I love local shows. It doesn't have to be Tracy Hines in the Tony Stewart Chevrolet dueling Jerry Coons, Jr. in the Hoffman Kroger car to make a great race. It could just as well be Jeff Bland, Jr. trying to track down Brady Short at the Spring Clash at Bloomington earlier this year. Or Dickie Gaines and Brandon Petty, or Shane Golobic and Jimmy Light battling to the end last year at Lawrenceburg.

Sandy

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

I would just like to say that I have Never Liked Entry Fees and probably never will... Just another way of getting more from the Back Gate... I am Not Totally sure about the Statement that the Entry Fee goes to USAC... In the past, I believe that the backgate went to the Track, even though USAC collected it... The Track then pays the Total Purse... I believe last year for a regular USAC Sprint Show, such as Sprint Week, The cost was 28 Grand or so... Again, this was last year..
As I have said Before, USAC is at times both the Very Best in the World and often the worse as well...
Anyone who saw the MSCS Race at Terre Haute would have a hard time saying that a USAC show would be better... In Fact, the Best Sprint Car Race I have seen to this Day was the Kiss race a few years back at LPS between Stanbrough and Marvel.... Having said that... The next time USAC comes to your track, make a trip through the parking lot... Check out how many out of town and out of State tags you see... To this Day, often in spite of thereselves, USAC still brings in MORE FANS and I mean OUt of Town FAns... That spells Money, to the Tracks, The Sponsors and the Local Communities...
Can they be beat? Replaced?... Maybe, but at what cost... I have seen what can and probably will replace them.... Not sure it will be Better and I am sure that you will lose Fans... Will the numbers even out cost wise? Maybe, but in the end, you will be saying Goodbye to the All out Racing you have seen for the last 50 years...
The Best Way to deal with USAC for a track, is a few shows a year... Make them Special, Make them Events, if they are, Fans and Drivers will come... If not, well they won;t.... The Cost of Racing, at almost any level has long gone past making sense.... USAC needs to evolve there Shows... Make them more timely. Invoke and Inforce Rules that keep shows rolling... Like a Mandatory Fuel Rule.... If your out, ya can;t race... A weight rule that works, like on the Motor will bring cost down... A wheel rule that elimanates the need for 800 Hp or more... Notice I said a wheel rule and not a tire rule... A one tire rule, and co. has not made things cheeper.... It made that sponsorship to teams go away... If USAC really wanted to cut cost, the number 1 thing is to set rules, simple rules and Let Race Tracks run there own Races... If they don;t abide by the rules, don;t go back... All those USAC shirts just serve to make the local folks mad....
In closing, Good Luck to Brisky and my sympathy. I fully understand your plight.... then again if you can compete with these guys, will you really let 40 bucks keep you away... Look at the rest of the cost first...
I know, I run a lowly Modified series, what do I know? We have Never had Entry Fees and in the last 6 years the WolfPack has paid back well over 25 Grand in Tow Money Alone... Not to mention thousands more in Contengencies and now, well over 200,000 in total purse and point fund money.... With drivers competing from over 10 states and Canada the WolfPack to say it simply, has some of the Very Best Modified Racing in the Nation, period........ and believe me, there is always room for improvement,, and always someone to tell me so.......wanna race........Wolfe-e

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Not this race fan. If they happen to be on a USAC/CRA race card, and it happens occassionally, I go to the concession area and hang out there until its god-awful over. The mini-sprints or California Lightening sprints are the only exception to the above.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

The difference between a USAC show with 45 cars and a local or MSCS show with 45 cars - would you rather see that field separated by three-quarters of a second or a second and a half?

That's what sets USAC apart in my eyes. Tracy Hines in the NQ Race at Gas City. B Mains that are just absolutely stacked. Heat races where fast guys start at the back and have to race like their asses are on fire just to transfer.

Too often in local or MSCS races with high car counts, I see contenders crashed out, or left out in the cold on a narrow track, or one guy starting on the front of a heat and drawing the front row of the feature to win without doing passing anybody because of a good pill draw.

Now, while I say that, I still really like to see those races when I am not at a USAC race, and I've seen plenty of GREAT local and MSCS races...

All I know is that I went to the first race at North Vernon this year. It was a pretty good race, with about six guys who were capable of winning on the night. At Brownstown, I saw a GREAT race with possible winners having to fight out of a non-qualifier's race, and then through a heat race, and one guy actually came from 20th to 5th in the B. And that's BEFORE the feature even starts....it's not even a debate for me!

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

When we had the Lucas Oil Late Models at Brownstown for our Icebreaker, it was $10,000 to win and $100 to start. Everyone that ran a B-Main got back at LEAST $150.

There is a race coming up at the end of the month called the Show Me 100 for Late Models...NO ENTRY FEE $25 General Admission and it pays $42,000 to win and get this....$4,200 to start. And fast qualifier gets $2,000 just for turning the fastest lap.

With Sprint Cars around here, youre going to see the same guys no matter what if they are running for $1,200 to win or $4,000 to win. WIth Late Models, all of the Big Dogs are spread throughout the country, it takes these big shows like the Colossal ($50,000 to win), the Dream ($100,000 to win), the Topless 100 ($47,000 to win) to get all of them together to race.

Shows that Indiana is indeed the mecca of Sprint Car racing..where else will you find over 150 Sprint Cars racing at different facilities in one weekend.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

The one subject that I didn't hear anything about on the show the other night was, the cost of racing for the teams.
Ok the way it is Kevin?

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Wolfie it is the principal of it just as much as the money. When you charge a entry fee and get no purse money back it is a slap in the face. Everyone will have bad nights and those are the nights you need the money the most. For you imformation $40.00 is $40.00 and that should mean alot to anyone in this economy. But it cost me $90.00 the entry fee plus a minumum of $50.00 purse money. If no entry and $50.00 purse money that is a $90.00 swing. Our business is in the dumps and no that isnt anyones fault except ours and the housing industry. All of last year really the only thing we bought for our cars was a new driveline, and that was halfway through the season knowing we needed it sooner. I flipped my car hard at Lawrenceburg early in the year and we pieced it back together with old parts laying in the garage. We struggled after that so we put an older car together which I am running right now with parts laying in the garage. The other things we purchased were the necessities methanol, tires, oil, tear offs and things like that. This year I put a the car I crashed at Lawrenceburg together for my boy and it is bent. I did buy a new driveline for it but that is it. We used parts from the past for the rest of the car. I did buy some used bumpers and nerfs from Steve Rone. Those driveline systems were around 400 so $90.00 makes a huge difference when money is tight. If Chase or I either one tear up much we would be done. So bottom line any dollars help.

Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
 

Quote from Don Racer The one subject that I didn't hear anything about on the show the other night was, the cost of racing for the teams.
Ok the way it is Kevin?

It is bad I tried on that subject and failed. It is not going to change. So we have to deal with it. I still say we will be in trouble a few years down the road.

Like I said in my post before this issue is principal just as much as the money. It is not right.