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Re: What's in a name,
Hey Papa Outlaw Regarding you earlier post '' source tells me... Look for them to change their name in 2012'' ...Funny thing is i race w/the Wisconsin Illinois Mini Sprints and me and most of the drivers i have asked havent heard anything about changeing the name?... You must of heard from a source that mostly does blow alot of smoke up people a$$'s...Thats nothing new..Most of us are all used to it up here in the north...
DAD... I been just skimming threw the post here but Out West the BCRA club call them selfs Midget Lites... |
Alright! Just call them "Lightning Sprints" and get it over with... This thread is 3 days too old.
In fairness however, I propose that micro-sprints from now on be refered to as "Thunder Sprints", or maybe "Heat Lightning Sprints"... Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: What's in a name,
Good lord localYokal...Easy on the mountain juice... RELAX FRANCIS!...EASY... EASY...BREATH...:6:
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Re: What's in a name,
Notice that the people calling for name change or already have get about 12 cars per race? The MMSA (and AMSA used to be,) are the premier organizations for these cars in the country, and haven't seen the reason for a name change. Who gives a **** what they're called? I personally like midget lites, but a name doesn't make a race car kids.
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Re: What's in a name,
Stump It is what I heard
Let’s begin with marketing. In short, the term “Mini‐Sprint” is a very poor representation of a modern day upright, midget‐based, motorcycle engine powered Sprint Car. Without a doubt, these are full‐blown, legitimate race cars. MARKETING!!! as a promoter and trying to MARKET my product the word MINI has come under fire with major companies. You Mr. Racer need a name that is MARKETABLE... example... I had 2 different racers that has been racing with the Florida Mini Sprints came over and started racing with the SSLS (Lightning Sprints) this year and got sponsorship because he wasn't racing MINI sprints anymore he was racing a LIGHTNING sprint yet it was the same car. Things are really really tuff to get anything out of companies now days. So as I have said, Lightning Sprints works for me but it would help everyone if we had a universal name as far as MARKETING is concerned...We are ALL :deadhorse: here because of tradition, name sake and/or a few other things and to get racers on the same page is next to impossible because no one whats change...there has really been only 2 very successful organizations that have made a go at bringing racers together and did pretty damn well...Bill France (NASCAR) and Ted Johnson (World of Outlaws).... WHY....MARKETING!!!! If you were a sports fan, would you be eager to go watch a “Mini‐Football” game? A “Mini‐Baseball” game? Or how about a “Mini‐Hockey” game? Likely not. I ask that all upright 750 c.c./1000 c.c. 1200cc “Mini‐Sprint” organizations consider removing all evidence of the word “Mini‐Sprint” in your advertising and other correspondence and replace it with the more professional term “Lightning Sprint”. |
Re: What's in a name,
You look at Mini/Lightining sprints in the country and the biggest organizations as far as car count are: American Mini Sprints Assoc., Midwest Mini Sprints Assoc., & Wisconsin Illinois Mini Sprints. The only one that I know of that is averaging 18 to 20 plus that is "Lightining Sprints" is the California Lightining Sprints.
Thank being said I still think your name has to do with your area not the name itself. The motor thing is a totally different topic. |
Re: What's in a name,
This sure doesn't sound like a dead horse wooping contest to me. Long time ago when I got into mini sprint a friend of mine told me his son was racing Mini Sprints at the Little Salem race track. Neither of these things meant anything to me. I thought Salem had only one race track and his kid was only 12 years old. This was before Jef Gordon made his debut. Anyway's I went to the race and was hooked that first night. There was nothing mini about the race I watched and Salem Indiana does in fact have two race tracks.
This was back in the early 90's and "Mini" was still a fresh term and it was not something we worried about. The motorcycle powered midget chassis based race car was developed here in Indiana and we got a pretty good jump on the rest of the country. If you would like go to the AMSA web site they have a very short history of "Mini Sprints", actually a Doctor here in New Albany was one of the first people to see the importants and future of mini sprints. Back then the world of outlaws was just getting hot. And every body in racing was talking about them. Like I said whatever "the world of outlaws" did we did too but on a smaller scale. As time went by the term "MINI" lost its luster. People began trying new names to bring us up with the times. Problem whenever you catch up with the times time leves you behind again. MINI was a good term for the 90's and 20th century It said what we were "World of Outlaw" wanabee's. Now in the 21 st century some guy up in "Canada" puts on his "Mr Know It All Hat" and says All of you dumbies down in the United States are way off base, you need to do things the way we do it up here in Canada, after all I'm a "pro race announcer" and I need to tell you guys how to do things to get it right. Reminds me of the story about "the guy who had 50 hot dog stands all over the city, he was doing very well and he sent his son to college to study business, well after 4 year in school the kid comes back and tell dad that he is doing things all wrong and begins to change the way his dad did business because he was college educated. Well his dad went out of business in 6 months and last heard his kid was up in New York at a sit in on wall street. PP OUTLAW I know all about advertising and how much it costs If you say muffler shop in Louisville Ky. people will say Dad's Muffler Shop "NO MUFF TOO TUFF" I had "TOMA" top of mind awareness! You can not Even guess what 3 TV station and 4 radio stations cost me a year + a full page in the yellow pages. Just because some guy in Canada says "lightning" is the word doesn't make it so. If you drank his Kool Aid and a lot of you guys starting out in the last couple of years did. It is not "etched it in stone". WHAT IM SAYING IS THINK-TALK-LISTEN! Maybe "MINI" was not a good term, worked great for us back then but it got dated. I dont think "LIGHTNING" is any better, it doesn't describe the car at all. "NASCAR" and "USAC" and even "AMSA" have been around long enough that people know what they represent even if they don't know what the letters stand for. We need to gracefully work our way away from the terms "MINI & LIGHTNING" and maybe even sprint and come up with a name for our racers that describes what they are and what they do in a better fashion. We have already Heard from Bill May about MMSA and I would bet a dollar to a donut that Jerry Tague isn't going to change AMSA either. We dont't have to change the name of the club only the car description . MMSA LITER MIDGET AMSA MIDGET-LITE XXXX TECHNO SPRINT xxxx 3/4 sprint |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by DAD: If anyone from up there comes to Florida in Feb for 5 maybe 8 nights of winternationals racing you will be a "LIGHTNING SPRINT" ....nuff said on my part and Yes I do respect Bill May on his decision to leave it as Mini Sprint. It works for him!!!! |
Re: What's in a name,
Ok, listen up y'all, I'm assuming everyone here knows what a Sprint Car is, and if you take the wings off it's a Non-winged Sprint Car. A Midget is a Midget and if for some reason it has a wing, then it's a Winged Midget. The same goes for TQ's etc. If someone asks me what a Mini Sprint is, I tell them it looks just like a Sprint Car but half the size with a Motorcycle engine straight out of the bike and chain drive.
Here's the difference between a Mini and a Micro Sprint: If it has 10" tires and the engine is hanging out the side, it's a Micro regardless of engine size! If it has 13" tires and the engine sits in front of the driver, it's a Mini regardless of engine size! The main difference between the two is the tire size and just like any other class of race cars, they're broke down into different classes based on engine size. I'm 34 and have been around all of these cars most of my life and learned the names and differences of these cars when I was a kid. Here's the problem and confusion, the people that are racing Micro's say that they race Mini Sprints. They don't, they race MICRO'S!! I had this same problem down here when talking to the promoter @ Windy Hollow because a Micro racer from Clarksville, TN was also talking to him. The promoter having not ever seen these cars before didn't know the difference between the two and booked a show with the Micro's thinking that he was getting what my brother and I showed and tested at his track. He now knows the difference between Micro and Mini!! Now that we know where the confusion is coming from, we can correct it and set others straight. :6: |
Re: What's in a name,
WHAT THE HELL IS A "LIGHTNING" SPRINT THEN.
"Damn it" and is that with or without wings |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by Ambrose93&39: |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by DAD: |
Re: What's in a name,
Did you say the "mini's" were clocked at 97 mph on the back stretch at Windy Hollow. Wonder what the micro's clocked?
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Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by Papa Outlaw: ---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ---------- Originally Posted by DAD: |
Re: What's in a name,
Them Ambrose's are all alike anyhow, Im just getting the #'s figured out my self. "What we have here is a failure to communicate". We all want to do what is best for the sport we just can't get together on how to do it. We need to call ourselves "Chain driven Midget chassis based race cars, powered by late model motorcycle engines with or with out wings". That should about do it,oh I left off the 13" wheels and tires also derived from the midget race sources.
Would it be the "winged Warriors" or the "clipped wing Warriors" or "wingless Warriors" ---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ---------- I just saw "Kellen" is on here what do you think? |
Re: What's in a name,
:14: Lol
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Re: What's in a name,
Hey! just went on line to another site "mini sprint racer .com" Could not find lightning sprint racer.. They list most of the clubs that run our size cars and I feel is a good reference. They list about 22 mini sprint groups, 7 groups that are lightningsprints, and several different groups. The guy in Canada was giving away KOOL AID and some of you guys drank it. looks like "MINI" has it by a 3 to 1 margin over "LIGHTNING", but does not make it the right choice?
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Re: What's in a name,
the speed of lighting is 140000 mph. if any one was wondering just how fast lighting sprints will go.
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Re: What's in a name,
Nobody gives a crap around here for your car if the word midget, micro or mini is in it. Might as well call it a big wheel. I once again vote for lightning sprint, it can be justified in the way the car handles, like lightning man. lol
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Re: What's in a name,
I've heard it said if you don't Vote don't *****. Likewise If you don't race don't *****. How did Your season go back it in? I have about 19 seasons in racing minisprints and have done pretty good. We have also had a lot of fun over the years. Met some great people and seen some of the prettiest towns in America. I just don't care much for "lightning" I guess Im used to "mini" but since moving up to the 1000 cc cars I don't think mini does them justice. If "USAC" would let us run with them in the D1 midgets I can guarantee we would not finish last, and we would probably be in the top 10 in a lot of races. I race with a full midget frame, I use midget body work, I use a midget tail and bladder, I use midget stearing box, My wheels and tires are the same as used by midgets, My engine is a very very high technologically advanced 4 cylinder. What we and or I have is an "identity chrisis". I don't think we have been fare with the names we have been calling our selves for the last 20 years. If you want to market something identify what it is first, dont sell sizzle if people don't know what sizzle is. If I want to sell mufflers It's going to be "DADS MUFFLER SHOP" not "DADS LIGHTNING AUTOMOTIVE".
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Re: What's in a name,
Dad
I think you should reconsider "DADS LIGHTNING AUTOMOTIVE" make me feel like your business is fast!!!! You Indiana guys dont know how lucky you are to have 2 great traveling series, 2-3 tracks that have weekly LIGHTNING SPRINT CAR SHOWS! Here in the midwest if you are in the KC area your ONLY choice is to run one place. That hurts our growth a long with the mind set just to keep doing what we have been doing every year. Luckily we live 2 hr to the east so we can go other places but it still is a hall. My point is Indiana is a great area to race, the hole state gets behind all types of racing so to say the name mini sprints has help grow the sport I would disagree. It is more the location you guys are at. Nothing to do with the name. I hate the name mini sprint and really not a big fan of lightning sprints but it is better then mini and more sanction bodys have gone this route so why not get behind this rather than re event the wheel? I personally feel your and everyone efforts would be better spent trying to get all these groups to combine several race each year to help grow the sport even more. It would do the sport good to have several so called national event that the midwest racers could go to. One in Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Colorado with pay out and rules that are the same. I really thought the Al.Archdale Memorial race would be the model for these events. If you and all the promoters would work together doing this it would do more to move this sport forward then a name change. |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by Quantrill: :22:Well SAID Quantrill !!!!:22: |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by DAD: |
Re: What's in a name,
We do mufflers, Midas changed there name to "Midas Automotive" and tried doing everything, they went out of business here in Louisville. We still do about 90% exhaust work so changing the name to lightning automotive would be like lightning sprint I wouldn't tell the public who we are and what we did. I have a fortune invested in DADS MUFFLER and NO MUFF TOO TUFF and Like pp outlaw. People in Louisville know who DADS is and what we do. 7 out of some 40 some groups in the "US" and "CANADA" go by "Lightning" that does not make it the most popular or the best name for our sport. If you want national rules go to AMSA web-site under rules they have for years set the standard for mini sprint rules around the country. Granted "Mr KOOL AID" chose 750cc for his engine size he also chose "lightning sprint" for a name. So by rights you should also be racing a 750cc lightning sprint right now.
AMSA and MMSA have had different views on how to take the sport forward. The split has not hurt car count much for either group. It only has made the sport better. More cars came in to fill the gap. "COMPETITION" always improves the breed. One group trying to out do the other group, this is just like racing, don't you love it. Nothing has helped midget racing more than "POWERI" Kenny Brown hit a home run and realy grew the midget population in the real mid west. USAC had gotten a little stale and into itself. POWERI kinda of shuck them up a little and got them thinking again. Without a doubt someone can come up with something better than LIGHTNING AND MINI SPRINT>and old teacher of mine use to say "you arent thinking"! If we combined the groups we would have upward of 45 or 50 cars at each race. Promoters really don't want those numbers and there would be a bunch of cars going home early that is as bad a living where you can't race every weekend. We enjoyed Peoria went a little fast and had hard time getting set up as we had to disconect or shocks that do about the same thing as a wing slider. We have already had many so called nationals drawing as many as 60 cars to a race. But only in a dictator group is every one going to be on the same page. But if you are good you will have a lot of followers. We are very lucky to have two Benevolent Dictators runing our groups. You can say all you want but they will make the final decishion, nothing worse than sitting around a meeting with 50 people all with the right idea. |
Re: What's in a name,
We have 305 sprints, 360 sprints, 410 sprints. What about 1000cc sprints and 1200cc sprints. That would have to be a little closer to what we are than lightning or mini. Did you know that the front two rows of a 410 feature has more cubic inches than a whole field of 20 lightning sprints. You would not change the name of the groups just what you call the cars.
MMSA 1000cc winged sprints. SSLSS 1000cc non winged sprints. AMSA 1200cc winged sprints. |
Re: What's in a name,
DAD, why not lose the "Sprint" extension, and call them what they are, 1000 Midget, or 600 Midget, you can add the sidewinders, and all the other variations, like 270 midget and etc, and get rid of the Sprint tag, just confuses most folks. JMHO! Bob!:)
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Re: What's in a name,
Trying just one little baby step at a time. The Motor size is one way (and I think) a much better way to to show the difference in our cars instead of mini or lightning.
You and I both know what a midget is and is capable of doing. A lot of the younger people have never seen a midget race and combine "midget" with "mini" together and see a race car without "testosterone" . I wish they could go spend just one day at the chili bowl so they could see just what a midget can do. |
Do u know CPR? U sure are beating this dead horse to death. Unless you're going to start you're own series this has about as much chance as a snow ball in hell of getting anyone to change there series name.
But if u are going to start one I still like Indiana lightning sprint association :) Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: What's in a name,
I like the idea of a 4" stretched midget frame with a V6 Ford escape motor. Bet it will never be lightning anything Maybe 3000 cc non winged sprint. Hell I'm too young to have a closed mind.
I did not say change the group name**** just****change the name of the damned race car in the adds and descriptions of the car. You know I had the same type of people tell me that when I switched to the Yamaha 600 from a Honda f-3 and again when I switched to the Kawasaki ZX10r engine back in 04. But I still enjoy thinking outside the box, and proving them wrong. I like my "FSC midget chassis" and it does pretty good aganist the purpose built minsprints of the day. ENJOY HAVE FUN |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by Quantrill: This is right off Jerrys AMSA website: The 1000cc & 1200cc Lightning Mini Sprints will be running at the Tulsa Shootout. More information in next week or so. there you go..nuff said!!! :22:The rules are up for the "Florida Lightning Sprints Winternationals" look under tool bar "Winternationals" at www.sssprints.com:22: |
Re: What's in a name,
NOT QUITE TAKE Off THE "LIGHTNING" AND "MINI" ADD "NON WINGED" THEN IT MAKES SENSE!
************1200cc NON WINGED SPRINTS************ Leave off the glittering BULL S#$%. Like sgt. Friday on Dragnet |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by DAD: |
Re: What's in a name,
JERRY is a smart man and might note the difference in his adds. Jerry and I have been saying "MINI" for more than 20 years now. It will be hard to get "MINI" out of our minds. Now Lightning I never had the time to learn it,so that won't be hard for me to forget. Im just saying that something is wrong with what we call ourselves. TQ29 is thinking more along my line of thought, but that would just choke the old HORSE*******to make that big of a change.
I think "AMSA 1200cc Non Winged Sprints" sounds real good. I almost know what they are racing and if a 410 is fast a 1200 must be really fast. |
Re: What's in a name,
Originally Posted by DAD: DAD AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE????? Please inform me....not trying to start anything just unclear of the comment!! DAD....Bill Jones.....What the hell was this about....from Florida Flag Stand Hy: My name is DAD. I'm a muffologist from up north in Indiana and this old guy PP Outlaw keeps raiding our board IOW, Indiana open wheel. He invited us down to help win vote for wing or wingless sprints in the south. Wingless works real good for us, really seperates the drivers from the wana be's but that old wing sure comes in handy if you get on your top. You will probably see cost of racing go up when you take off your tops. They absorb a lot of energy. LOOK FOR ME IN THE FUTURE JOHNNY LIGHTNING sprint or whatever. Whats in name, "A rose by any other name would it smell as sweet." the Bard... I have raced up there and have many friends in Indiana..In fact there are a few guy's coming down for the Fall Brawl that are going to be racing their "MINI SPRINT" in our "LIGHTNING SPRINT" race in Oct. 28/29...Fri night wing and Sat. night non wing.... Bill Jones I have not "RAIDED" IOW, yes I do show my passion for non wing racing and Bill Gardner's IOW forum is where I can stay intouch with my fellow non wing fans... Thanks SO MUCH BILL "DAD" Jones for your very positive comments there bud!!!!!!!!!! |
Re: What's in a name,
It's all in fun wanted to rattle your cage not ruffle your feathers. I enjoy these old post boards and will probably chime in down there when I think I can get things going. We have been in the mini sprints excuse me 600 and 1000 cc sprints for a long long time now, the reason because we have fun. Anytime I can help grow the sport I'll be right there. We have been talking about Fl. but depends on my son's job weather we can do it. Sounds like Fun. We did MMSA's sprint week and worked our ass off.
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