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i feel the big dollar teams would show up for a $1000 to win the race. With their 18 wheel haulers, it would take roughly 200 feature wins just to pay for the hauler, so i don't think they're in it for the money. The feature payout i would like to see for a weekly show would be, for example, take this years pepsi nationals payout- I would drop 1st place and 24th place. Change the 2nd place money from 1500 the 1250 (which now is 1st place), and keep the rest as is. This would be a 9500 feature payout. you only pay the cars that show up. if 16 cars show up you drop the bottom 6 spots and you save 1800. now the feature payout is 7700. Like a lot of people are saying, you need to pay the bottom more to get cars out of the shop.

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10% of the people in this country have 90% of the money, I'm afraid they dont care about midget racing or any other activity that might get them dirty.

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Hut Hundred is still run though......probably at a better track for midgets anyway.

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You are 100% correct. The Kokomo midget non sanctioned events held there over the past few years always have attracted all the big dollar teams for a $1000 to win show. Likewise for the USAC regional pavement shows last season.

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like any other form of auto racing----he who has the money makes the rules.so i would suggest that someone on this post needs to round up some cash.

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....and don't forget NAMAR

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morty I know that there is a few of us POWRi guys gonna run "The Gold Crown". Shane Cockrum and I both ran the Hut 100 this year and I plan on running the Gold Crown. Be sure to stop on by the trailer and have a beer.

Tyler Robbins

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Thanks T-Rob. I was gonna respond to the fact you and Fireman Shane supported the Hut 100 in an earlier post. I appreciate you guys' efforts no matter where or who you run with.
...and you know I'll be by for a beer :3:

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Do tell Chuck,how many midget races have you been to this year that didnt have a full field???

I've been to three without full fields. 2 of them I didnt expect to see a full field at (Kokomo and the Speedrome) 1 of them I did expect a full field,last weekend at Lasalle.

I've seen full fields at all the POWRi races I have been to this year though. They must be doing something right. ARDC too. What is their secret?

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14 at last years four crown. Three at Kokomo and three full fields during midget week. Every one of them except the LBurg Midget week over 150 miles to see.



Oh and ARDC? The bastion of spec racing? GUESS IT WORKS ESPECIALLY IN WINGED non midget territory.

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Note I said this year (2011)

For "Spec racing" that Steve Buckwalter is a heck of a driver! Comes to Indiana with his Spec car and can run up front and even win with it (Last Year) against USAC's best.

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Those were within the past year

And i totally agree on Buckwalter :)

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Midget Owners & Drivers - If you haven't seen our other thread. the Montpelier Motor Speedway in East Central, Indiana is currently gathering info on a weekly/biweekly midget class with the possible inclusion of 1000CC mini-sprints, etc... If you are interested please go to this thread https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=52646 and let us know your thoughts or potential support.

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care to explain your definition of "spec racing" and how it applies to ardc?

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Don,

Do you remember ARCA had a midget series and it used to be pretty decent. They knew when to get out though didn't they?

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275 HP on hard 8" tires (of which would be marked and only 1 or 2 could be purchased a night...like almost EVERY short-track stock car track in the country!)! $350-$400 to start! Line-up the races so that cars are grouped closest to speed (not "progressive" or whatever the crap is where it's only a matter of time when the "have's" get to the front). Agree on previous weight rule comments; raise it, AND actually weigh EVERY car every night (like almost EVERY short-track stock car track in the country!). Don't charge at least the driver for pit passes and no entry-fees! I better stop...

Thanks for bringing this topic back up, Mr. Moore! Maybe someday some will quit walking around with dirty tear-offs on...

Jason Dull
815 494 6002
jdull99@hotmail.com
jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

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http://www.ardcmidgets.com/PDFs/ARDC-rulebook-2011.pdf

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Not trying to throw fuel on the fire and I also don't think USAC is wrong in every decision they make. However, have they ever tried something like Montpelier is doing? I think a survey of the competitors is a great idea to see what they want and what works for them. Of course you are going to get different opinions, but I would think you would be able to come up with some sort of baseline to get more cars to show up. The question to owners should be, when there is a race and you choose not to show, why? Get feedback from there. At least somebody is trying.... The groups also need to sit down because working together benefits all.

I think the best point made was, if the powers-that-be don't think there is a problem, then what is going to be done?

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OpenWheelKT... Seriously, I think the only survey that is taken by the orgs is with the manufacturers and how they can stay in business with one night expensive soft tires and $22,000 engines that are supposed to save midget racing. Yeah.. we should all stand and cheer!!!!

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"Competition" The bunch with the best plan wins! That is the American way. Right now USAC need's to get a better plan and I think they are trying, But you got a bunch of old guys doing it the way we have done it for the last forty years, they need some young blood and think outside the box a little. May-be they need to do it like they did fifty years ago, that would be a new way to a young guy. Ken Brown is a good example of that with the Poweri series. He has some heavy hitters there but mostly he has regional guys wanting to race and have a chance at winning. The more rules you have to make things cheeper the more the big guys can take advantage of those rules. Plenty of time on the dyno can beat that old rev limiter, Plenty of dyno time can beat that old restrictor plate. Rules just make racing more expensive. We got snake oil for tires at $100.00 a gallon. It just keeps going.

It's hard to beat money in racing, If all you have to do is go by the best parts and the best people and go win. Back in "the good old days" LOL a guy could every once in a while out think the rich guys and win. Rich people have the money to race because they were smart in their business deals and made large fortunes. They then get into racing and turn their large fortunes into small fortunes trying to out buy the other guy, something they would never do with their real business. You can't get rid of these guy's in fact most of them are good people and you want to race with them anyhow, It's just they have money to spend and I don't blame them for spending it. The car count's say we are running out of these people and need some little guy's back in the mix, don't rule-book them out.

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We need to further grow our track and fan base and this is an option we are taking a good hard look at to see if the support is there. We need feedback from any and all competitors (Midget & Mini-Sprint) who might be interested in this in 2012 and maybe even a possible show or two in October. If you can help us or know of other competitors, please help us get in contact with them.

We have a good group of helpful responses so far and need as much feedback as possible! At this point, the feedback is not that far apart.

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=52646

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We all need to get behind the Montpelier effort. That track is a good midget track. Not a high speed joint... nice tight turns so the big engines don't have an advantage there. They are willing to do some things that the orgs at this point have no interest. Hurray for the guys at Montpelier. They are thinking outside the box and if the owners and drivers get behind their effort, we can make some progress at getting midget racing back to its senses. Once again, give this promoter your support and see what happens. Let's forget about the way it's always been done and move forward with some fresh ideas.

What if:
We took the idea even farther.. Just throwing this out there if you don't like it, don't catch it..

In the economy that we have today racing will die off if we don't change something..

Midgets are struggling, upright mini sprints are struggling (although doing better) and tq's are dead. I talked to Bill May about our rules recently and told him I thought our rules were probably why are series was hanging in there during these tough times, and they didn't need changed. However after racing with the midget guys at Mountpeliar and seeing the two different cars run together at North Vernon I have some different ideas.. The problem with midgets is motors cost too much, problem with minis is people think a chain drive is crude.. What if we opened our rules to allow quick change rearends, what if we said you can run any manafactured 1000cc motor, weather it's a cycle engine or car or whatever. There is no innovation in what we do anymore...
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---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

This would allow.. 600 uprights, tq midgets, and maybe lower hp midgets to compete together... Really I dont mind racing with the midgets on smaller tracks but big tracks they would eat us!
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---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

And 1000s
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The mix of midgets and 1000 minis at North Vernon worked out great. Also at US24 which is a great midget track!!!!!!! Honestly, sitting in the stands and watching the cars go by.. you CANNOT tell the difference between the various cars. Yes.. if you really, really look closely but as reported by several fans that were there, it worked.

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TQ's are not dead, no, we don't have the 65 cars at a race, like we did 15 yrs ago, but they are alive and well, I'd say 24 cars is just right, everyone gets to go to the pay window, and at least get their expenses back for the evening. Bob!:)

Sorry bob not trying to hurt anyones feelings, would you prefer dying?
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---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

This rearend thing would be optional, the rules are segregating 3 different types of cars I'm just saying what if they met in the middle.
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No, not dying, either, this economy has hurt everything, most folks just running closer to home, just like everyone else, I've been doing this a long time, and I've seen a lot of up's and down's, not a lot of cars being sold, but some being built, and some just waiting, tells me they aren't dying, maybe resting! BTW, I think we have a good handle on engine rules, lets you think outside the box, no spec tires, just some rattle room, lets you be inventive, and do your own work, works good for me. One thing we can all do, is help the promoters, by not expecting payouts, like we had 65 cars, and the stands were full, hell, we're a support class, one way to get races, is to cut back on the purse, and not go for $500.00 to win, cut it back to $250.00 to win, and let 20th pay $100.00, everyone wins that way, more cars, happier people, no ONE team takes the big money home, everyone gets a share, more people sharing in the purse=better car counts, try to work with a track close to the center of your majority of car owners, for more races, don't spread out so far, it'll come back, but I wouldn't look for it for a couple of years, look at Nascar, look at the big teams that are now sharing sponsors, if that's any indication, it may take longer before it gets better.

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im not going on a treasure hunt to get my answer. i already have the rulebook and a car that conforms to it.
care to be a little more specific?

Ok bob, I'm just saying you have confidence in your car. Not asking you to change it, I'm just saying our series should change it's rules to allow tq midgets to run with us on non wing shows.. Better for you to have more races better for us to have more competition and car count..
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Read my post #68 again, I've expanded it. Bob

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how are TQ's dead? Had to have B-main at the last race, I believe the average car count has been 21 cars this season. Thats about as good as any type of racing for a weekly average.

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Back in the "good old days" they used to run quite a few run what you brung races round flemington speedway and such. It was always the most fun we had racing "our" small block modified. There were weight limits and safety tech, thats it. Youd have all kinds of cars racing against each other and it was a blast. It also by it's nature tended to be a low brow event cause most guys wouldnt want to bring they're fancy Grant King Big blocks out and take a chance of being tangled with a street stock or something. Why the heck wouldnt something like that work with sprintcars and such. The other thing that can keep costs a little lower are claimer rules. Most guys hate the thought of their engine being out of their car at the end of the night, why build a $30,000.00 engine when places 2-5 could claim your engine for $10,000 or whatever. I'd never heard of this anywhere but you could also have a claimer rule on shocks, which are a ridiculous expence. Before the mid seventy's which were the "good old days" a low buck team could and usually would if they had a better driver beat the big buck teams. You built your own chassis, engines ect. and a real smart, good driver could beat a guy with all the money in the world. And thats a fact, cause I was there.

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Just trying to break down what you're saying. I have "confidence"in my car, for what ever that refers to, or I wouldn't bother loading it in the trailer. Asking us, to run "against" you, would be like taking a knife to a gun fight, the way I understand it, you run 1000cc's, we run a max of 836cc's, not a good senario, for us, and as far as the number of races, we have had 12 so far this season, 4 off weekends, and 2 rainouts, and one called because of excessive heat, and we are already booking races for next season, and we have 3 left on our plate for this season, let me see, that's 21 races, if we had wanted to run every weekend. Just wanted to see what it looked like in print, but I don't see any "dying" in those numbers. And, Nick, you're correct on the ave car count. Keep em flying! Bob!:)

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I don't think I have any reason to be jealous of TQ's. I've gotten to race at places like KC Raceway, Bloomington, Lawrenceburg, Paragon, Lincoln, etc. etc numerous times over the past 2 years for high payouts and full fields. We're not subject to racing at fairground tracks every weekend.

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Mini sprints are a lot closer to midgets than 3/4 midgets are to minisprints performance wise. I would really like to see a 950 lb 3/4 midget with a cut down 1000 cc motor in it or for that matter a Kenyon car with a 1000 cc in it. Lets keep the furflyin it good for the heart rate and gives people something to think about and maybe race a little more. The big problem is TV's and front gate count. Lets tell the promoter we will run for a precentage of the front gate. No guarantee purse. OUCH!

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Fairground tracks, when prepped right, can produce good racing. last fairgrounds race the top 4 came from 9th, 17th, 12th, and 18th,and wasnt from attrition either. Whole key is track prep. It would be good to see full midget racing make a comeback, somehow.

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Tell you what, everybody needs to run a car like shown in my avatar. $3000.00 plus untold elbow grease. Fast, light, dependable and I dont care what anyone says will run with any new stock 1000cc. Then we can start having fun and stop moanin bout costs.

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Slide22, we've run all those places in our series, plus a lot more, especially out of state, on a regular basis, Atomic Speedway, in Oak Ridge TN, used to be at least 2 times a year, I don't know how many times we've ran at Danville, Illinois, these TQ's have been around since right after WWll, and believe it or not, they do have a good following, however, we feel we put on a better show on the smaller tracks, more close combat if you will, don't get strung out, and follow the leader so much, it's the way we do things, it's worked for over 50 years, and still working, so why try to fix something, that isn't broken? Also, we have better control over our fate, on the tracks where we are the main attraction, rather than tossed in with 4-5 other classes, it's nice to run once in a while at Vernon, or Bloomington, or Lawrenceburg, or Gas City, or LPS, where the people come to see the sprint cars, and anything else, is just burning daylight. JMHO! Bob!:)

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I've been wondering the same thing.

"Spec" tacular?
"Spec" tate?
"Spec" ial?

I thought "Spec" racing was like the Ford Focus Midgets,or the Kenyon Midgets.

I dont know what Chuck thinks Spec racing is.