Re: Irl bozo's!
 

I was talking to someone who works very close to one of the top IRL teams and we were talking about what drivers could or couldnt drive a sprint car on dirt or pavement that currently drive indy cars. his words were I could teach a monkey to run a indy car on an ovel track and that in his opinion not one driver currently running in the IRL could run top 15 on a regular show night at gas city.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

I was at Sunday's race in St. Petersburg. People in the grandstands were laughing their butts off at the IRL show. It looked like the race would never get started.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Heck- you would be hard pressed to get one of those drivers into a sprinter to run that show. I ran into one of the current IRL drivers, an Indy 500 winner, in an empty airport about 5 years ago. Since the place was dead and neither one of us was pressed for time we chatted. When I told him that I was a sprint car racer, he told me that I was crazy, and there was no way in hell that he would strap into one of those things.
I don't know about you, but I think it's pretty sad when a guy can make it to the big time without being brave enough to race what hundreds of us strap into every week across the country. I doubt you would find a single sprint car driver who wouldn't mash the gas in an Indy car given the chance. (Heck they only have 650 hp, that puts them on par with 360's- and they have wings!)

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Quote: "My racing is better than your racing!" ---- Source: Way too many dirt fans :9: :9: :9: :9:

Go find the Argabright story! :6:

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

That's not exactly true.

"My racing is WAY better than your racing."

That's better.;)

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

You guys sound like politicians at ******** time. Out of one side of your mouth it's "The Indy 500 is the greatest race ever!", then you turn your head and "Betty White could drive one of these with one arm tied behind her back". If it's so easy why would you want to see anyone get a chance?

I highly doubt there are "hundreds" of non wing racers out there. Some of you who only go to non wing dirt races in Indiana (or the two or three other states with one track a night that run non-wing) need to get out more. There are hundreds of winged "crutch cars" (you know the ones people get paid real purses to race!), hundreds of IMCA/UMP/USMTS modifieds and hundreds of dirt late models.

THERE ALSO IS A REASON BILL HAS AN OLD TIMERS FORUM!

*** NEWSFLASH *** the '50-70's are over! If you have worked in the auto or racing industry in the last 15 years you would realize some things.

Who are we to say how the Hulman George family conducts there business. If it was so great then why did it change? We are the ones dumb enough to follow sports that are so heavily controlled by money.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

I'm not sure what this post has to do with the way this thread has gone. I think the point being debated here, is whether or not the road racing crowd regaining control of the sport and thus, pulling it back in that direction (again) is a good thing for the growth and development of Indy Car racing, or not. It's my opinion that Tony "sold his soul" for Honda/Toyota/Penske/Ganassi/Andretti and now we simply have a reincarnation of CART. By 2002 the IRL had a very cost effective formula, lots of competitive "small budget" teams, a decent amount of American drivers in the mix (including short trackers!!) and the best racing on the planet...bar none!!!! photo finish after photo finish...

R.I.P...Treadway Racing, Mo Nunn Motorsports, Cheever Racing, Thomas Knapp Motorsports, Curb/Agajanian Motorsports, Sam Schmidt Motorsports, Kelley Racing, Pagan Racing, Derrick Walker Motorsports, Conquest Racing, Menard Racing, Hemelgarn Motorsports, Sinden Racing, Galles Motorsports, Panther Racing, Bradley Motorsports, Cahill Racing, Bryd Motorsports,and all of the rest of the teams that made up the foundation the "new" IRL that didn't get "Favored Lease" status from Honda and Toyota as the Big 3(Penske/Ganassi/Andretti) did when they finally buried CART and came over to the IRL....what a terrible shame.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Sorry Cecil98 but obviously don't know jack**** about Indy car racing, half of the teams you mentioned were running the Indy 500 long before the Cart/IRL split. Galles, Hemalgarn, Menards and a few others. You just ramble about BS that you don't have a clue about. Might want to check some of your facts about the Indy 500.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

The 50's-70's might be gone, but that doesnt mean the racing wasnt better then. Back a couple, few decades the top racers in the country were in Indycars and such. They were better because they raced, alot, on all different mediums. Thats all they did was race. Now days everybody is tweetin and twittering or what ever they do. I honestly think today it's more important to have your twittering down pat then your racing skills if you want a good ride. You dont need to be on a old timers forum to know whats good and whats sugar coated crap. It changed because of money, money talks even though it's usually mentally challenged. I'm proud to say I'm a oldtimer when it comes to racing. If you grew up around race tracks in the 60's and 70's, your lucky very, lucky. :6: At least folks that been there and can compare the two times and make they're own decision, Now days pretty much all the "big time racing" is follow the leader. Somebody mentioned that like ten of the guys at gas city on any given night are better then the current Indy drivers and I dont doubt it for one minute. Those are the guys that get my :9:

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Who is he?

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

You may be right about my knowledge of Indy Racing, wright59, however, if you take a look at the teams I mentioned as founding teams of the IRL you will find that only a handfull participated in the 500 before the IRL and of those, only Galles racing ran the full CART/Indy Car circuit. By 1995 Galles was becoming uncompetitive at Indy and CART with Adrian Fernandez and Marco Greco driving for him. Hemelgarn and Byrd were only small one-off Indy participants during the CART years and Menard, while not considered underfunded, only ran the 500, as well, until the founding of the IRL, at which point they began a full time IRL team. Needless to say, after the "sell-out" to the Honda/Toyota Leases and the influx of Penske/Ganassi/Andretti-Green into the series, 95% of these small teams dried up and disappeared. Also, no one here suggested that the IRL inspired the founding of "all" of these teams but, some teams were formed because of the league. With the new economic package the IRL presented, many of these smaller teams saw the opportunity to run the entire series and did. The fact that some existed before the IRL/CART split doesn't mean they weren't "founding teams" of the IRL......:)

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Like I said, if you wanna talk about the 50's-70's there is a forum for that. Last weekend (in 2011) I watched an Indycar race from a street course in St.Petersburg, FL. The old times aren't coming back, I was probably a year old going to pavement late model races in the late 70's. I found sprint car racing and I like it just like everyone else on this board. SOME PEOPLES DEBATING SKILLS ARE LIKE THAT OF A 3 YEAR OLD. I'm not implying that to you Backitin, spend enough time here and you'll see who the know it all's are who can't complete a logical sentence, yet they can fix the world, by implying that Indycar racing should be synonymous with the world of sprint cars. It's as profound as the Southerner's who think stock cars, should be just that stock cars.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

All I know is if your a race fan your lucky to be in indiana

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

You guys go ahead and bash away at INDYCAR if it makes you feel good. All I know is I am getting pretty excited about young Mr. Clauson's entry into the INDYCAR world in about two months. Best of luck in the Freedom 100 Bryan!!!

I respect any driver that cheats death on evey lap by entring turn 1 at Indy going 230 MPH. Think it's easy.? I think not:22:.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Couldn't agree more, some people were so happy that Clauson is running the ovals, then 3 weeks later take no offence to someone saying it's so easy a monkey could do it.

I do think I read that the TV ratings were the highest since 2007 for the St. Pete's race.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Cecil your valid point about the IRL formula had one huge flaw, no body came out and saw those races and not many more tuned in on TV. I went to quite a few of the midwest races between 1999-2004 and you always had plenty of room in the stands.

The INDYCAR Series is a business and needs to make money. The street / road races are more "events" than races and allow the IICS, teams, and promoters cater to the sponsors through hospitality.

I consider myself a race fan and will watch just about anything that requires one person to go faster than the other whether it is Indy cars, F1, Nascar, sprintcars, modifieds or street stocks.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Yeah, overnight ratings were a 1.4 for the st pete race. That is the highest rating that an IndyCar race (other than the 500) has received since 2007.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

They had several races that were well attended (e.g. KY 65K +,Texas 100k+, Chicago 70K+ etc) and thus, created a solid foundation for the series to build on. If Tony had stuck to his guns (and "no lease" formula), I believe the series would have caught on. The racing was just too good and they had a good mix of young drivers that could've developed into stars had they and their teams not been forced out by the big money. As it turned out Honda and Toyota, from a marketing standpoint, did nothing to promote the series. In the end all they did was give motors to the teams that could already afford them. Huge mistake by Tony George.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

I'm excited about Clauson getting a chance myself. We discussed a kid named Travis Gregg (a Lawrenceburg regular) on here a while back who got a similar chance and excelled in the IPS feeder series. He won, sat on the pole for several races and always finished in the to 3 or 4 but, never got a sniff from the IRL owners. I'm just hoping that Clauson gets a real shot and not just a token shot, as Gregg did. Hopefully, Bryan has some solid funding behind him. I know his dad has been beating the bushes up in Indy for years and has done a great job of promoting him. The IRL needs the Bryan Clausons' of the racing world more than he needs them IMO. I hope they finally start realizing this.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Part of the issue is that drivers from other countries recognize at an early age that if they want to get into F1, GP2, GP3, F3 or even in to the lower tier formula feeder ladders, they will need sponsorship, so they are networking, developing sponsors and hiring agents much earlier in their careers than many of their US counterparts. So when their career path to F1 fizzles out, they still may have sponsorship dollars to take elsewhere.

The other part of this problem is that the feeder ladders in US racing have been a mess, and the competition in European ladders is much higher. This allows for the perception that somebody who has vetted themselves in the European ladders has learned more racecraft than somebody who came up through the US ladders.

One other reason that some of these foreign drivers get the nod is the perception that you can teach a road course driver how to tackle ovals much easier than you can teach an oval driver how to tackle road courses.

The current management of the IndyCar Series is trying to do something about that though. Last year they brought Star Mazda and USF2000 on as part of the official IndyCar ladder along with Indy Lights. They have established scholarships for each ladder series champion driver to help them move on to the next rung. They have set up some interesting side deals like providing a scholarship for the USAC champion to run all the ovals in Lights. They have also established a "combine" where ladder team owners and IndyCar drivers can evaluate up and coming talent in USF2000 cars. This "combine" will draw from series and event champions from across the karting world, as well as USAC D1 midgets.

Yeah, their current marketing spin is that they have the "best drivers on the planet".... I don't believe that for one second. Yeah, they have some good drivers, but the best in the world are in F1 and NASCAR.... because that is where you get paid what you are worth. But at least they are making moves in their ladder series to try and make their ladders a legitimate feeder into IndyCar and maybe help them over time earn the title "best drivers on the planet".

IRL = its really lousy. IOW fans won't,b satisfied unless Clauson makes it to the IRL n has a top shelf ride. i personally only care about Paul Traceys results so I just follow him on Twitter. Until he,Sarah Fisher, or Clauson run a full schedule , count me out.
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Re: Irl bozo's!
 

I would agree with that if Randy Bernard had been in charge then. TG's idea was good, but never had a prayer with him carring it out. That's not a bash, it's fact. TG just is not a marketing type. He didn't know how to promote the series or put the right person in place to do so. So the series had no choice but to take money and "revert" back to what it was at the time of the split. If the series had stayed as it was, it would have folded (taking out TG's deep pockets which were eventually taken away from him). Good ideas don't work if you don't know how to execute them, TG does not have those skills. Bernard does and could have made it work, but it's now too late to go all ovals.

I personally liked the IRL the first few years. Nice to see "our" guys move up. However, I knew many people that didn't like it because it was a "bunch of no names" (their term not mine). So it's all in how you look at things. I would like an all oval series personally, but it didn't sell with TG at the helm. I like IndyCar now too. Not exactly what I would draw up totally (ride buyers would be outlawed....don't need them...I would make it 80/20 oval/road racing). RB's got it going in the right direction. I just hope TG stays out of the way.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

Well Superduke, you have really caused a stir with this post! :2:
The topic has gone off course, but it's still about the "bozo's" as well.... I understand where you and the dirtheads are coming from because I used to feel the same way you do. But I started to watch these other forms of racing, and began to admire these other drivers, no matter where they were from. All racing is hard because you are competing against others, some are just more difficult(relative term) than others.
I do believe, that the era/track/type/surface that a person LEARNS about racing with, is the one that they will ALWAYS refer to as the "golden age". I call it thier formative years.
It's the same way in stock cars, when people are always saying, "Aww these kids today can't compare to Fireball, or Curtis, or the Flocks or fill in the blank....Everything in life changes, and when looking back to "the good ole days" NOTHING" looks as good. For most people that is....
Sure as a sprint/midget driver, I miss the early IRL days, but that too has changed, so we move on...And enjoy good, hard road racing and oval racing with IndyCar...

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

So that makes this guy an "expert"?

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

You guys just show that you don't know or dont care to know how hard it is to run a place like the Speedway, and do it good. And how brave one must be.
As far as the 650hp, you dont remember when CART was running 900+hp.
Also, its a lot different with 650 on a 5/8 mile long straightaway with a tight turn at the end of it, and 800 on a 1/4 or 1/2 mile. There is a reason they keep trying to slow the IndyCars down....

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

My point exactly!

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Good post, but I do believe that the top drivers in IndyCar are among the "best". Dario, Scott, Helio, Briscoe, Power, Kanaan. I believe that Hunter-Reay is right there, as is Graham. And now we have Simona!!! :8:

---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

nice!

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

YES he is an expert he has a indy 500 win as an engineer to back it up. SO my guess would be he has the knowledge to know what he is talking about.

Re: Irl bozo's!
 

I've been going to races for right at 39 years. I've seen anything from slot cars, to NHRA, to airplanes, (and everything in between damn near) on permanent and tempory tracks, indoors and out, in the air on dirt pavement and on concrete floors covered with Coke syrup, on road courses- in straight lines- and on ovals of various sizes, with and without some kind of aerodynamic assistance.

I'm not a know it all, but you aren't going to BS me too easily.

-I started racing karts in 1977 at the ripe ol' age of 5. This was before the age of the full bodies, really wide/soft tires, and the crazy offset karts of today. My first kart had a little 'triangle' shaped nerf bar, and a short front bumper...there was no knocking and banging or pushing people out of the way, like happens now. I had to learn/was taught, how to race, not drive a bulldozer.

I ran on dirt mostly, but I've also run indoors, and on temporary street courses.

Matter of fact, the first time I ran on a street course, there was still clay on the kart from the night before....I was 11 at that time.

Dirt was a blast, especially when it was wet and tacky, but I could still get around on a slick track just the same.

Indoors was awesome....stand on the gas and go fast. Kinda weird seeing that tall wall beside you while running in the Ft. Wayne Coliseum, and at Marion, OH.

The street course was pretty cool also. Was odd turning left and right, and it took a while to get used to 'hitting the apex' and making a big wide dive into a turn, but once I learned where to back off, and then stomp it right away and drive through the corner, it was sweet.

For me, running on a road course was fun, but watching a road race, either on a permanent or temporary course, SUCKS, and is boring to me.

Was/am I the best to ever sit in a kart....no, but I could hold my own.

Kart races used to be interesting as hell, now they are boring 'follow the leader' parades.

Jeff Gordon is about 6 months older than me, and when he showed up in Ohio, my dad was constantly hearing, 'Dad, when are we gonna' buy a sprint car?' It never happened....lack of $$$$$$$$

I raced against, and am friends with, several of the guys you now see in midgets, sprint cars, modifieds, and late models in western Ohio/eastern Indiana....some of them have been track champions, and some have been touring series champions, multiple times.

If you ask any of us, we just wanted to race. We were not thinking of hiring an agent at 12 years old. We believed if we raced clean and hard, and won a lot of races, that people would notice, and ask us to drive for them, and we would move up....that's how it used to be.

But that has changed....and that is wrong.

Look at guys like Jack Hewitt and Steve Kinser...why didn't they have several INDY starts?

Rich Vogler could run the wheels off of anything he sat in. Why didn't he ever get a ride in the top cars of the day?

This isn't limited to just sprint car drivers. Where are the supermodified drivers at INDY? Why didn't Bently Warren have a bunch of starts at INDY? Billy Vukovich III was there, but we lost him.........

INDY isn't that big of a deal to me anymore. Oh, I'm still in awe of the place and it's hallowed ground, everytime I'm there. But the race itself is a joke. The crap starts at the start of the race...they can't get in a row of 3, let alone 11 rows of 3.....yet the night before at Anderson, those guys in the Little 500 pull it off, and then put on one hell of a race!!

Indy cars have people I've never heard of, and don't care about. Where did they come from (don't know), who did they beat (don't know), what big race/races did they win (don't know), did I ever see them 'coming up' (nope) = DON'T CARE

By the time a person gets to INDY, they should be a household name to a race fan........not true anymore.