i would kill to see usac run waynesfield lol.
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Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by #1jackhewittfan:
i would kill to see usac run waynesfield lol.
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Who you gonna kill?!!!!!!:18::3:

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------

Originally Posted by USAC Fan:
And you'll never get 1000.00 out the gate, if you keep showing up with less than 40 cars at 10,000 to win races less than 2 hours away. Those races should get 60+ without batting an eye but no, you end up with no more cars than you would for a regular USAC show.

Oskaloosa will pay 15,000 and they won't get more than 35 cars. Oskaloosa used to pay 30,000 and the most they got was 41 cars.

41 cars for the biggest paying non-wing race in the country.

And you guys wonder why you're still racing for 4,000 to win on a national level.

The owners and driver's are not the ones who should be making the purse. You need butts in the seats. 30 of the best make for a great show.

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

All I can say is being from South Dakota ( wing country ) it is a treat for for me to see the nonwing cars. I do all 10 days of Iowa Sprintweek. In the past Tuesday at Osky has been my favorite. I was SOOOOO looking forward to the nonwing guy's at Knoxville last year. Lets hope they get to get it in this year. As far as the $$$ goes it has to start somewhere, and $20,000.00 for the two nights is a start. I am sure if we fans show up on Sunday and make a good showing they might be inclined to pay out more next year. On the other hand if there are more people in the pits then in the stands, well you get the idea. IMO it will be a tuff sell at Knoxville as far as fans go. The 360 nats are a good show,but the stands are pretty damn bare until Saturday when they have the 410's run also. it seems the locals are 410 fans and that is it. Hopefully I am proven wrong because as a fan I would really like this to take off and grow.

Maybe non-wing Nationals should be held in Indiana?? Makes the most sense. Either that or Late October at the PAS.
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Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by CTtoPA:
Maybe non-wing Nationals should be held in Indiana?? Makes the most sense. Either that or Late October at the PAS.
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Too logical, agreeing on what track size, track location, other factors wil affect all of this. The Four Crown should be just a three crown. Without a doubt Eldora is a great facility, pretty close to Indiana. Go ahead and pile on with the dust comments...

How much does the 4 crown pay for each class?

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by #1jackhewittfan:
i would kill to see usac run waynesfield lol.
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hewitt classic will be as close to usac as you get at waynesfield

Who said it would be open for discussion? Lawrenceburg looks like a nice place and is a good size. Maybe Dave already has something in the works! If he could have a $20,000 to win show with a strong payout through the field I'll bet he could get a great car count. (Sorry Dave for bringing your name into this!)
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That's part of the problem right there! Just because you think you can only have non wing races in Indiana! No wonder they only race in Indiana/California heaven forbid trying to grow! That would be crazy to leave the state! Wing cars have only been around for short time but somehow have shoved nw cars to two states. Omg forget it I'm calling ARP wings hello ASCS!
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Nobody said anything about NOT racing outside Indiana. I'm just saying it makes the most sense to hold a NW Nationals where all the NW cars are located. Just seems like common sense? Your idea would be like having Super DIRT Week for DIRTcar modifieds in Ohio when the vast majority runs within 4 hours of Syracuse in any direction.
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Re: kville nonwing nats
 

I attended the Nationals since the mid-1960's and hundreds of Knoxville "Saturday Night" non-wing events. Also many non-wing races at Oskaloosa, Sedalia, Lakeside, Lincoln NE, Iowa State Fair Grounds, Ascot, Manzy and tons of county fair tracks for years. It is a shame todays fans can't experience what it was like in the late 1960's and 1970's non-wing sprints at Knoxville. It was utterly amazing and tremendous fun. At that time the Arizona Barn, and other "barns" at the Knoxville fairgrounds served as garages and hangouts for the nationals competitors and fans. Jack Miller was the ultimate announcer. I also attended at the same time hundreds of USAC races. It was great seeing people like Eddie Leavitt, Ray Lee Goodwin, Jerry Blundy, Bubby Jones, Opperman, Dick Gaines, Dean Thompson, Jimmie Boyd and a cast of others battle it out at the Nationals back then.

IMO todays USAC and California non-wing sprint crowd are very much like the open wheelers of that time. Folks in Indiana and California are lucky to have non-wing sprinters so available.
It would be nice to have the Indiana/Illinois/Ohio/Pennsylvania/California non-wing drivers and fans all take part in an open wheel Nationals on a big half mile like Knoxville.

I thought the USAC race at Oskaloosa the last several years was great and a "must see" race. It had that non-wing National's feel.

I attended the "winged Nationals" last year. But to me its just not the same as the old days. Just my personal preference for non-wing sprints.

I would attend a large (Huge Purse) non-wing National Event no matter where it was held, and would pay what ever the promoter wanted for admission. Terre Haute, Knoxville, Osky, Perris, Sedalia, Eldora would work, probably some other tracks also.

I would think some one could make it happen. Maybe it is up to us fans.
Today's non-wing drivers deserve it.

How much do we want something like this?

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

I think if the pay out looked like this you would have no problem getting cars or fans. I know I would be there in the stands. I don't know what the fan count was for some of the sprint week shows but I'm guessing it had to be around 3,000. You get a couple sponsors for the payout and you have everything covered, even if the fan count was lower then 3000. I would think by paying $1000 to start you will get a lot more of the lower budget teams to show up. Any thoughts?

Place Payout
1st $15,000
2nd $10,000
3rd $9,000
4th $8,000
5th $7,000
6th $6,000
7th $5,000
8th $4,000
9th $3,000
10th $2,000
11th $1,900
12th $1,800
13th $1,700
14th $1,600
15th $1,500
16th $1,400
17th $1,300
18th $1,200
19th $1,100
20th $1,000
21st (provisional) $1,000
22nd (provisional) $1,000

Total payout $85,500


Pit Pass: $35
Gen Ad: $30


50 cars w/ driver and 3 crew members each $7,000
3000 spectators $90,000

Total gate: $97,000

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by VSneader2:
I think if the pay out looked like this you would have no problem getting cars or fans. I know I would be there in the stands. I don't know what the fan count was for some of the sprint week shows but I'm guessing it had to be around 3,000. You get a couple sponsors for the payout and you have everything covered, even if the fan count was lower then 3000. I would think by paying $1000 to start you will get a lot more of the lower budget teams to show up. Any thoughts?

Place Payout
1st $15,000
2nd $10,000
3rd $9,000
4th $8,000
5th $7,000
6th $6,000
7th $5,000
8th $4,000
9th $3,000
10th $2,000
11th $1,900
12th $1,800
13th $1,700
14th $1,600
15th $1,500
16th $1,400
17th $1,300
18th $1,200
19th $1,100
20th $1,000
21st (provisional) $1,000
22nd (provisional) $1,000

Total payout $85,500


Pit Pass: $35
Gen Ad: $30


50 cars w/ driver and 3 crew members each $7,000
3000 spectators $90,000

Total gate: $97,000

Plus you don't have any tow money for the 28 cars that didn't make the feature. So if you give them a $100 a piece that is another $2800 off your profit.

Face it with the nonwinged crowd it seems the bigger to win the less cars that show. One of the biggest successes for nonwinged cars was the Mopar Million several years ago that had over a 100 entries. The thing that made the Mopar so success full is the purse paid to the guys who did not make the show. Heck I think everyone got at least $200 to put their car on the track and then the payout got bigger from C to B to A. That is the only way you will get a big turn out if everyone gets a piece of the pie not just one race winner.

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by tjcain58:
That's part of the problem right there! Just because you think you can only have non wing races in Indiana! No wonder they only race in Indiana/California heaven forbid trying to grow! That would be crazy to leave the state! Wing cars have only been around for short time but somehow have shoved nw cars to two states. Omg forget it I'm calling ARP wings hello ASCS!
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https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/att...1&d=1280506343
Wing cars have only been around for short time :3: ;) :22:
How long ago was this picture?

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by staggerman:
Plus you don't have any tow money for the 28 cars that didn't make the feature. So if you give them a $100 a piece that is another $2800 off your profit.

Face it with the nonwinged crowd it seems the bigger to win the less cars that show. One of the biggest successes for nonwinged cars was the Mopar Million several years ago that had over a 100 entries. The thing that made the Mopar so success full is the purse paid to the guys who did not make the show. Heck I think everyone got at least $200 to put their car on the track and then the payout got bigger from C to B to A. That is the only way you will get a big turn out if everyone gets a piece of the pie not just one race winner.

When you look at the example numbers listed, the dicey proposition of the money involved promoting a race really comes into focus. I'll admit, as a fan, I don't really grasp all the stuff that has to go into a race to make it happen. I show up, pay my ticket price, enjoy the race, and go home. I've been to races that had very few fans, and didn't really give much of a thought to how it was impacting the promoter/track owner. After reading this, and other posts from promoters/ track owners, it gives me a better appreciation of what these guys do to provide me my preferred form of entertainment/stress relief/therapy.:6:

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by staggerman:
Plus you don't have any tow money for the 28 cars that didn't make the feature. So if you give them a $100 a piece that is another $2800 off your profit.

Face it with the nonwinged crowd it seems the bigger to win the less cars that show. One of the biggest successes for nonwinged cars was the Mopar Million several years ago that had over a 100 entries. The thing that made the Mopar so success full is the purse paid to the guys who did not make the show. Heck I think everyone got at least $200 to put their car on the track and then the payout got bigger from C to B to A. That is the only way you will get a big turn out if everyone gets a piece of the pie not just one race winner.

I would love to see another Mopar Million.

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by apexonephoto:
When I think Knoxville, I think wings. If Indiana has the best tracks, the best "real" sprint cars and the best drivers why haul out to Iowa? If you look at the entry lists for the 360/410 nationals it's drivers from all over the country. Because there is winged "fake" sprint cars all over the country.

It's also taken 50 years to get to that point. No Indiana promotor or sanctioning body would want to have a $50,000 dollar race in Indiana that took three days, because other tracks would schedule a pavement/dirt/midget/sprint/whatever race to steal cars/fans/drivers. This would need to be consistent. It would take years to establish, I notice all of the "traditional" Indiana races seem to either not run for a year, change format, change weekends, change car types.... the only certain think is they change.

I have always felt that 3 divisions of cars running two surfaces is cutting it a little thin. Also as another post was questioning long term sponsors. If wings do anything, it's to provide a place for someone to lean on while they are writing a check to sponsor "fake" sprint cars...

Maybe people think "traditional" sprints cars are old, out of date, slow... The truth is there is a whole lot other states who do just fine with wings. Yes they miss out. USAC races sprints in 10 states. WoO in 20 states and 3 provinces.

Fake Sprint cars?? Last i checked those "fake sprint cars" would still bust someones ass. That's damn near the dumbest phucking thing I've seen someone post on here!

Originally Posted by SPRINTCAR:
https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/att...1&d=1280506343
Wing cars have only been around for short time :3: ;) :22:
How long ago was this picture?

that picture was taken well after nw sprints had been around, it has a cage so I'm guessin late 60's! Try agian
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Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by tjcain58:
that picture was taken well after nw sprints had been around, it has a cage so i'm guessin late 60's! Try agian
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:19:

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

I'm not getting into the wing vs. non-wing debate, but I will say that I WOULD NOT spend $5 to watch any race car @ Knoxville. I personally hate the place and have yet to see a good race there. I've unfortunately seen more people killed there than I have good racing, I'll never go back!

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by thepurple73:
i attended the nationals since the mid-1960's and hundreds of knoxville "saturday night" non-wing events. Also many non-wing races at oskaloosa, sedalia, lakeside, lincoln ne, iowa state fair grounds, ascot, manzy and tons of county fair tracks for years. It is a shame todays fans can't experience what it was like in the late 1960's and 1970's non-wing sprints at knoxville. It was utterly amazing and tremendous fun. At that time the arizona barn, and other "barns" at the knoxville fairgrounds served as garages and hangouts for the nationals competitors and fans. Jack miller was the ultimate announcer. I also attended at the same time hundreds of usac races. It was great seeing people like eddie leavitt, ray lee goodwin, jerry blundy, bubby jones, opperman, dick gaines, dean thompson, jimmie boyd and a cast of others battle it out at the nationals back then.

Imo todays usac and california non-wing sprint crowd are very much like the open wheelers of that time. Folks in indiana and california are lucky to have non-wing sprinters so available.
It would be nice to have the indiana/illinois/ohio/pennsylvania/california non-wing drivers and fans all take part in an open wheel nationals on a big half mile like knoxville.

I thought the usac race at oskaloosa the last several years was great and a "must see" race. It had that non-wing national's feel.

I attended the "winged nationals" last year. But to me its just not the same as the old days. Just my personal preference for non-wing sprints.

I would attend a large (huge purse) non-wing national event no matter where it was held, and would pay what ever the promoter wanted for admission. Terre haute, knoxville, osky, perris, sedalia, eldora would work, probably some other tracks also.

I would think some one could make it happen. Maybe it is up to us fans.
Today's non-wing drivers deserve it.

How much do we want something like this?

your right it was great days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:6:

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Ive seen some amazing races at Knoxville - to each their own

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy:
I'm not getting into the wing vs. non-wing debate, but I will say that I WOULD NOT spend $5 to watch any race car @ Knoxville. I personally hate the place and have yet to see a good race there. I've unfortunately seen more people killed there than I have good racing, I'll never go back!

If the last time you've visited was 1979, you might want to give the place a 2nd chance. A few things have changed..

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by SPRINTCAR:
Who you gonna kill?!!!!!!:18::3:

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------



The owners and driver's are not the ones who should be making the purse. You need butts in the seats. 30 of the best make for a great show.

I'm not saying they should. The point is when you pay a terrific purse, you expect to have the pits full. If you only get 30 cars for a $4,000 to win show and only get 30 cars for a $15,000 to win show, why in the heck would you pay the $15,000 to win?

30 cars might get you a nice crowd but when you know there's going to be twice as many competing for only 24 spots in the feature, you'll have SRO.

Originally Posted by Rex W.:
Fake Sprint cars?? Last i checked those "fake sprint cars" would still bust someones ass. That's damn near the dumbest phucking thing I've seen someone post on here!

Thanks for adding something to the discussion. If you could comprehend my sarcasm you wouldn't have posted the most idiotic quote I've ever seen. Reread it again there and you may understand. Read it twice. I'm too nice of a guy to flat out call anyone dumb on the internet. Have a good time at the races, I'll look you up if I need to be educated. Thanks!

What I left out in my initial quote is this:
As for the state of REAL sprint car racing

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Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy:
I'm not getting into the wing vs. non-wing debate, but I will say that I WOULD NOT spend $5 to watch any race car @ Knoxville. I personally hate the place and have yet to see a good race there. I've unfortunately seen more people killed there than I have good racing, I'll never go back!

I totally agree...4/10ths and 1/2 mile up tracks SUCK...I have raced for over 30 years and raced where most tracks where 1/2 milers..but my best time I have ever had in ALL of racing is leaving 5 blocks from KOKOMO Speedway in the mid 90's and being a spectator for 2 years there...Indiana has the best dirt racing in the country because of their BULL RING mentality...give me a 1/4 over a 1/2 any day

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

remember when USAC would not run sprints on 1/4 miles?

Re: kville nonwing nats
 

Originally Posted by HurstBros0:
Lets put it in blue collar " field filler " terms . Would I tow my backhoe 10+(20 round trip) hours to dig in lateral lines for 5000.00 ? That`s a big no . I can tow an hour or two for half that and my pocket is fuller. USAC can`t be fixed until Nascar gets fixed. Why were those pits full of cars 10 years ago? All the aspiring Jeff`s and Tony`s were fast tracking to Nascar. When you can`t give away tickets to one of Nascar`s biggies ,to people from Indiana who will stop and watch two kids race tricycles, then it`s broken. There you go ... I know some long haired professor in an MBA program could ramble for hours in eloquent terms about the economics of racing . Take it from a bald fat guy with a sprint car , if you don`t go out the gate with a 1000.00 , you paid to race that night. It doesn`t take too long paying for the show and there is no show because the dummy paying to play has went broke.

Can I get an AMEN brothers & Sisters! :32: