Re: KO- Old School
 

I agree, did K.O. do the same thing last year somewhere and everybody thought it was cool? He and Tony are big boys and can do whatever they want within the rules. J.M.O.

Jerry #66j
www.joshspencer.com

Re: KO- Old School
 

It's cool till they see them in a body bag because something easily preventable like a part coming thorugh the cage or fire didn't do the damage it would without the protections readily available.

Im sorry, just knew a few great people that would probably still be here today.

Chuck

Re: KO- Old School
 

DING, DING, DING!!!!! We have a winner!!! Great post! :respect:

Re: KO- Old School
 

The way I looked at the whole deal was.... KO is a grown man who can make his own decisions. If something happened, that's the risk he was taking. He wasn't putting anyone else in danger.

If he was doing something that might affect other drivers on the track, then I would have a problem with it. Bottom line, end of story for me.

I think people on here would ***** about what day of the week it is.

Re: KO- Old School
 

This safety topic can be a touchy one,....I mean if we want to make the sprint cars and midgets safer, shouldn't we put wings on them? Ahhhh! And the "Safety walls" at every track? Require Halon systems? Make them wider, or better yet, if safety of our drivers is the ultimate goal, shouldn't we put fenders on them? Who should decide what is the acceptable level of safety? You? Me? The driver? The sanctioning body? The fans? Beats me! But, a bunch of guys packed in styrofoam lined cars bouncing off syrofoam walls just doesn't sound like something I want to watch or participate in. There is a certain level of danger to this sport that makes it so appealing, and if we made the cars all "super-safe", would anyone want to watch? :sleep:

Re: KO- Old School
 

My question isn't someones choice to do so.

My question is why do the rules allow it in the first place?

At my track they black flag you if you don't have driving gloves on.

Chuck

Re: KO- Old School
 

Sandy, It would have been pretty bad to say the least. He burned the hair off his left arm even though he had a firesuit, THANK YOU BILL SIMPSON AND IMPACT RACING!!! The $1200 suit is junk now; but one of my most precious Sons is fine.
I applaud K.O. for being a free spirit, but like one squirrel said to the other: "It's all fun and games til somebody drops a nut!":emote20:
http://jacobwilsonracing.com/IMG_3874.JPG
:thumb:

Re: KO- Old School
 

The photo Mark posted of his son is a perfect example of the old saying: "A picture is worth a thousand words."

Re: KO- Old School
 

Exactly. You never know when the worst is going to happen in a race car, so you should at least prepare for it as best you can, IMO.

Re: KO- Old School
 

My point is, why do you and others care? KO is the one that should be concerned about it. He made a decision and if something goes wrong, he pays the price. I personally wouldn

Re: KO- Old School
 

From JIM MORRISON

1. Someone should ask midget racing legend Mel Kenyon what he thinks about it, since he survived the Kenyon Barbecue back in the 1960s at Langhorne.

2. Did the insurance agent really know KO was going to drive without his firesuit around his torso? (KO was wearing it up to his waist.) Was he even there? Will the insurance rates go up next year?

3. Tony Stewart wears an open-faced helmet at Fort Wayne only in practice -- normally only for the first session of the day.

4. I wouldn't worry about the Snell rating of KOs helmet. It looked pretty new to me. His driver's uniform, on the other hand, looked at least 20 years old, if not 30. How many washings does a uniform take without losing its fire retardant properties? I might worry about the rating of his brain.

5. I personally believe each race organization, sanctioning body and track promoter holds the responsibility of establishing minimum safety levels for its competitors and fans. Sometimes people must be protected from themselves. Race organizers must protect themselves from lawsuits. For example, the Doug Wolfgang Case.

6. I thought it was pretty cool seeing someone in my lifetime actually race in a T-shirt. I still can't believe somone allowed it to happen in 2008.

7. The best thing about him doing it is the discussion of safety that it has sparked.

Re: KO- Old School
 

I would be curious to know why they black flagged Casey for a flat tire saying that was a safety concern, but would not say anything about this. I agree that he is old enough to make his own decisions. Its no business of mine what that guy does with himself on the track or off. Ask someone like Wolfgang who was burned up in a fire and had parts of his body melted together and I bet his opinon would be differant though.

Re: KO- Old School
 

Mark,

I'm glad Jacob is fine. It was pretty scary looking when it happened.

Sandy

Re: KO- Old School
 

So a fire suit would prevent injury from a part coming through the cage? :action-smiley-049:

Only if it ends in Y... :headbang:

Re: KO- Old School
 

[QUOTE=openwheelKT;25067 He had a little fun with it. It

Re: KO- Old School
 

KO knows full well the dangers of racing. He was having fum at a fun event. We aren't talking Winchester or Langhorne, we're talkin' Chili Bowl in midgets. When was the last time someone was killed there racing? I think he is a great asset to our cherished sport and if I ever have an opportunity to buy him a beer it will be one hell of a pleasure. I've lost heroes and friends to open wheeled racing and hated it but if racing ain't fun then what's it good for? Measure the risks and takes yer chances!!!:thumb:

Re: KO- Old School
 

I would think that if he put on a firesuit, the open face lid should be fine. Especially in this venue. It may be a risk, But So Is Racing. Somewhere along the lines you need to think about the Fans and what they like to see and to me Thats Individuals! As for insurance, its way out of hand but in my opinion thats because of the Lack of Competition. For the most part, I think K&N have pretty well cornered the market, so why should the price ever go anywhere but UP. Same thing wrong with health care in this country. It goes up and up because they pass along the cost to our Insurance. VICious Cycle.
All the things said regarding safty may be true to an extent but it has also opened up All New Problems! We keep seeing younger and younger Kids in these Fire Breathing Monsters because they have never been Hurt and are Fearless and Because There Parents seem to think that a Race Car can be built that they wont get hurt in. The Kids are smaller and smaller, The Visibility is down to nothing but forward vision and most of the time a Sprint Car is not pointed in a Straight Line is it... I really think we could have less overall problems without some of the newly designed seats, safer they may be, but I think you soon come to a point in a Sprint Car, as well as a Mod and others that we need to be able to get to the Driver better after a wreck. Again, this has to come down to what a driver is comfortable with. There has to be give and take, and once we have rules, well they have to be the same for all or there not rules at all. I have heard it said that Dale Earnhart used a seat out of a Van for years. It's Undeniable that His Death changed saftey rules in all forms of racing but now when I think of Nascar, "and I think about it Less All The Time" you almost get a vision of a Driver riding inside a SuperBall, the tracks nothing more than an overgrown Pin Ball Machines. I guess my point is, its a lot easier to drive over the edge and behond Driver ability, when there is no fear of the consiquences. Racing is Still Dangerous, and like it or not there are still more people out there that go to see a Wreck than just Racing. That may be why you see What the Nascar yahoos are doing.
I think overall, there are a lot worse things going on in racing and life in general than KO. Easy for me to say Good for You KO, and I guess I finally have........Wolfe-e

Re: KO- Old School
 

Nice to see somebody that gets it. :idea:

Re: KO- Old School
 

Don't forget K.O., that livin' on the edge daredevil himself, will be partcipating in the Indy Race Parts "Storytellers Roundtable" during the Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 8!!! Come see the sleeveless wonder live and in person!!! See with your own eyes if he will be wearing a turtleneck, a vest, a Polo, or even quite possibly NOTHING AT ALL!!!!! :eek: That's right folks, step right up, next Saturday January 26th at the Indiana State Fairgrounds!! Kevin Olson, in all his attire, or maybe not.... You'll have to attend this AMAZING SHOW to find out!!! BE THEREEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shout

Re: KO- Old School
 

[QUOTE=openwheelKT;25102]Nice to see somebody that gets it. :idea:

Re: KO- Old School
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_in_motorsports

Doesn't give all the reasons and anything other than lost lives in motorsports. Id be willing to bet over 50 percent would have survived wearing every safety device available at the time of their incident.
I honestly see it about every other night of sprint racing where a caliper of a car will freeze You have a glowing rotor, They expoled and pads and rotor go flying through the air.

And IMHO which is that and not telling anyone else what to think It does put others at risk and not just KO, If he didn't have fire protection (Suit) why should the safety crew risk their butts to save him when the car catches fire?

Chuck, not for overkill, For whats available to you so I and YOU can have fun seeing them race another day.

Re: KO- Old School
 

Try and convince non-race fans, casual race fans or potential non-racing related sponsors that racing is not just a bunch of ignorant red necks with this type of thing going on.

Had it went the other way, it could have been very ugly. The press would have had a field day, lawsuits, not to mention KO's own safety, I know you people say he is old enough to make his own decisions BUT how about the kid in the front row just a few feet away watching someone possibly get burned alive? Think that would affect anyone other than KO? I do. Nobody wants the image of safety crews pulling out a lifeless body stuck in their head, unfortunatley I've seen it and won't ever forget that image.

Risk vs Reward.....we know what he risked, was the reward worth it? A few cool pics? Some publicity? The feel of driving a car in a T-Shirt? Doesn't seem worth it to me. Hope for the best, Prepare for the worst.

Re: KO- Old School
 

Against my better judgment I have to respond to this post.

WAY COOL K.O. Smart? maybe not. I find it funny that the people complaining about K.O.'s deal probably will vote for Hilliary. What has this world become if you are not responsible for yourself and your actions good or bad. We better get congress in on this so they can decide for people if it was right or wrong. As I see it was only effecting himself and no harm to others.

Chuck... You mentioned if a fire crew should have helped him if he was not wearing protection. IT IS THEIR JOB! right or wrong. Paramedics save crack addicts and other people who make bad choices everyday why? It is their JOB!. When I see car wrecks on the highway or even in front of you, We call them an accident. Sorry that is an over used term. Someone was not paying attention and ran into somebody.That is not an accident it was a case of someone being a Dumb A$$.
Oh but I am sorry it was an accident. I know a Little off topic but come folks. It was K.O;s choice and it effected nobody but him.

We all know we should wear our seat belts while driving right? Many don't and I am guilty of it a lot. We need a law for that? Please. I know it sounds stupid but I pay my car payment I pay my Insurance and as dumb as it sounds I should have the right to put my face through my own windshield if I choose to. or I should I just let the government decide this for me? It is common sense to wear your seat belt if you don't your chance of living through a bad crash is greatly diminished.
But should it be a law? You can not legislate stupidity.

Re: KO- Old School
 

Stagger, that is the problem. People want to blame their own stupidity on somebody and not take responsibility for your own actions. Why do you thin there are so many warning labels and stupid lawsuits out there. When someone spills coffee on their crotch and holds McDonalds responsible for the consumers stupidity and won the friggin lawsuit we opened ourselves up a huge an of worms that won't be stopped.

Peopel need to take responsibility for their own actions and suffer the consequences for their choices.

Maybe Darwinism isn't all that bad after all?

Re: KO- Old School
 

No Doubt. Just think...... The strong live the week die... Plain and simple. We would have less people on this planet and maybe Gore would finally shut up about global warming....We ourselves are going to screw the world up way before the planet screws us.

Re: KO- Old School
 

What in the world does ******** have to do with racing and the safety of it? Bordering on Psychoism here. Rest a sured, The person I vote for will have some common sence which discludes the whole democratic party and half the other one.

:)

Chuck, Thinking the proverbial horse on its last leg but still thinks if the rules allow it, Someone is going to do it.

Re: KO- Old School
 

Here is some more fuel for the fire ! LOL It is no secret that the "World of Outlaws " is considered the premier sanctioning body in sprint car racing. Correct ? Then why don`t they mandate HANS devices ? Or better yet arm restraints ? That`s right they do not require arm restraints ! Here is my 2 cents on the subject of KO at the bowl: Let the man do as he pleases, this country was founded on individualism and there are too many " follow the leader " types in every walk of life these days. Racing used to be about people who weren`t afraid to be different. Now alot of the drivers are so worried about going to NASCAR they are afraid to do anything that might involve being different. When was the last time that you sat and drank a beer with your favorite driver after the race? or maybe just talked racing for 2 hours after the checkered waved ? how many of the teams have let you or your kid`s climb in their car after the race ?

Re: KO- Old School
 

Umm, yeah 1 car in flames at the CB. Look at the 07 car's pic.. looks like more than 1 car did to me but maybe u were too blinded by KO's stupitity.

Openwheel Rob is 100% correct on this issue.

i have seen it happen and actually know of a person that hasnt been to over 15 sprint car races since a night about 10 years ago at Winchester when one of their favorite younger drivers died right in front of them that night. So IT WOULD effect others... They really didnt have any involvement with him either but said it just wasnt the same anymore after that.

Re: KO- Old School
 

the 07 was in Ft. Wheezy.

KO's not even that old school. It's not like he wore a t-shirt and an open faced helmet when he started.

If he was a real man he'd have only worn a cromwell and a single lap belt. And that containment seat he's got? ...sissy...

Re: KO- Old School
 

I like KO as a driver, he's always fast and a clean racer. I wouldn't have worn what he did, but if the officials let him race with that on, I accept that. If he was wearing only a pink thong, that is his choice. The kids that saw the drivers in the old days are probably still hooked on racing today. They aren't traumatized. One of the first races in my memory, a guy got burned up in a sprint car race on the mile right in front of the grandstand, bad things happen. Was KO tempting fate? Of course. Just like you and I do everyday by skydiving, rock climbing, playing backyard football, racing, or anything else that someone could consider an unacceptable risk. KO considered it an acceptable risk, so that is it. Let's move on.

Re: KO- Old School
 

News alert!!!

Extensive tests have revealed that openwheel racing is dangerous and can hurt or even kill participants and spectators. Starting in 2008, all sprints and midgets will now be peddle cars to reduce these risks. After concluding this study, the experts on IndianaOpenwheel.com have determined that the worst thing that can happen with the new cars is a sprained ankle.

Re: KO- Old School
 

You have your opinions and I have mine. Like KT said below, if he did get upsidown and burn to a crisp, how would that have effected you, me, or any of the drivers at the chili bowl?

For you to honestly think that I have no problem with people being killed or injured really bothers me. Especially off of a statement that has nothing to do with it. To mandate something like that, it's just not going to happen, and doesn't work. You cannot force me to wear something that I do not feel comfortable wearing. Sure, there needs to be some safety standards, but a Hans isn't one of them.

Injuries are in every single sport, and for those of us that strap into any type of racecar understands the risks that we take when doing the sport we love. If KO wants to race naked for all I care, as long as it doesn't effect me, then what's the problem. He's a grown man, and he can make his own decisions. I wear what I need to wear to feel, and be safe. Everyone has their own opinions on this stuff, but to say that I don't mind seeing someone hurt or killed, you sir are dead wrong. (No pun intended.)

Re: KO- Old School
 

I would venture to say the insurance underwriter addressed the situation with Mr. Hahn before the headers had cooled off.

Re: KO- Old School
 

I got it figured out.

We make all the cars radio controlled all the drivers stand at the top of the grandstands and race. Nobody gets hurt.:thumb:

Re: KO- Old School
 

To all of you who think that a driver should be able to wear/not wear whatever he wants in a race car: Buy or lease a race track. Tell everyone that this is what you're going to do. Then call an insurance co. to get coverage for your track. Oops! You're out of business. They won't cover you. Even if you would find an underwriter to cover you the premiums would be more than you could pay. Why? Because the same people (competitors) that you're trying to impress by being so "cool" about this would be the same people to sue you when they bust their azz or fry in the car. Insurance companies know this because they would be the ones to pay when you got sued. It is why we have insurance companies. It is why we have laws. To protect dumb azzes from themselves. It is why people such as Bill Simpson have devoted their lives to making racing safer. Racing is inherently dangerous but that doesn't mean you are required to take more chances than needed. :headbang::headbang::headbang:

Re: KO- Old School
 

Forget it Dwight. Obviously a lot of people here confuse concern with complaining. Of course no one has explained how driving a race car without a fire suit is more "fun" than driving with one. Or told us how that a drivers "individual" decision not to use safety equipment only effects him and not his family and friends. To think that "individual" decisions only hold potential ramifications for that one person is selfish and naive.
But there's no point in arguing further. Not with so many 'experts' celebrating the death of common sense.

Re: KO- Old School
 

The problem here has been the logic that what a person does in this situation is simply matter of choice that impacts them and them only. This is wrong on multiple levels. All the arguments about how the world should be are irrelevant - that's not the world we live in anymore and we all have to deal with it. Take insurance - when accidents happen - one way or another we all pay for it because in the end costs are passed on to the consumer. In racing if insurance rates go way up, pit passes go up, if pit passes go up, admissions go up, if costs go up, purses don't go up. Risk management is just that - it reduces the exposure the company and business faces to hold cost and litigation down. What would be the Public Relations damage from a particulary ugly situation -- and in a host enviromnent where Lanny and Emmett spent years fighting the neighborhood on noise- and then their complaints sent HAZMAT in with air qualtiy measures. The promoters worked hard wooing political support to minimize the risk that the event would be shut down. Imagine this scenario in a courtroom. Judge: Mr. Hahn, would you consider this to be in line with current standards of safety? Let's take a human scenario - You take your child to the track as I have - and here would be a likely conversation - Hey Reid, there's K.O. he is a really great racer, he's in the Hall of Fame - and a really great guy. Dad, is he that funny guy you talked to that had the monkey. Yes. Yes, racing accidents happen - I have lost count of how many fataliities I have seen, but they pale in comparison to my friends that are older than me and you wonder how many were preventable. I'm a hard core racer, and nothing shakes me from this - but I saw accidents - and accidents that involve fire, and one haunts me to this day ---- And finally, I don't want to think about midget racing without K.O. he's just as funny with a firesuit on.

Re: KO- Old School
 

Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt. But, who decides where you stop with the safety devices? Again, wings no doubt cushion the driver in a crash. Should we all run them? How about a nerf car that extends around the wheels? That would eliminate a lot of the flips. Mandatory halon systems would save folks from burning. Perhaps airbags that deploy with a hard hit? And on and on.....

My point is that somewhere in all of this, you can lose the "sport" of racing. It may sound bad, but sprint car racing is attractive to me because I know folks can get hurt, yet they still go out there and blast a cushion wide open. Thay harness the power, and face the danger. It's exciting. If we safetyfy it to the point that it's just a bunch of padded cars going around a padded track, I'm not sure anyone will want to watch it.

It's a fine line between keeping drivers and fans safe, and maintaining the integrity of the sport. I mean, fenders would certainly make them safer, maybe restrictor plates, safer barrier walls,...is this beginning to sound familiar?

Re: KO- Old School
 

I agree 100% that it is a slipperly slope for all the reasons you suggest --

Re: KO- Old School
 

Al; I understand your point but in this case we're not talking about adding MORE equipment, we're talking about someone who took a giant step BACKWARDS.
Let me use this example; Smoke detectors have been around for many years and it's been confirmed time and time again that they save lives.
They're cheap and most people have them. So let's say that the local fire dept. starts a media campaign for fire safety. They aren't suggesting every home be retro-fitted with sprinklers or fire escapes just advising that people check the batteries in their detectors. So some "individual" decides to go through his house and take the smoke detectors that he already owns down and throw them away. There wasn't anything wrong with them, he just decided that since his father didn't have them 40 years ago, he doesn't need them either. IMO, Kevin's decision was just as stupid.