Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Don,

Where did I make any specific mention of your race team or discuss how you conduct your race team business? How you conduct your race team business is of no concern to me. Thankfully, the manner in which you conduct anything has no affect on me. However, since you logged onto a race oriented public forum and submitted your opinions about how midget racing should be conducted in this country, whether you like it or not, people are going to respond. Perhaps I could have chosen to word my response a little more carefully. I’ll try it one more time. “If a car owner feels so strongly that his or her car has finished behind a car that does not meet the specifications set forth in the rule book, he or she can submit a protest.” Would that be “on topic” enough for you? As far as giving unsolicited advice, or micro managing anything, who solicited advice from you regarding how midget racing should be conducted in this country? Are you trying to micro manage midget racing? You see, I happen to respect the right of all citizens of this country to express their opinion, whether I happen to agree with their opinions or not.


Mark Ray

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

The big tracks are motor eaters for sure. The other issue is the Esslinger engine horsepower that one must compete against on the bigger tracks. A very well known engine builder recently told me that they have nothing that can compete with an Esslinger. Thank the big box org for giving them the extra cubic inches a few years ago for making most other engines has beens. Yes there are other engines on a given night that can compete, but the word on the street is that if you want to run up front, you need an Esslinger.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

I didn't see your "race team" if you want to call it that, even mentioned in the post. Nobody specific was mentioned. By the way, in order to have a "race team" don't you actually have to show up at a track and race. Simply owning a car and sitting at home does not make you a racer.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

The book written by Jack Fox and published in 1977 , " The Mighty Midget " lists approximately 125 midget engine manufacturers known since 1933. A time was seen that there could be as many different engines in a starting field as there were cars. The competition between the multiple and varied builders was credited with keeping much of the product affordable. "And now we're down to 5 ?"

Maybe Honda could come on board as the sole supplier with a spec sealed engine and with the demise of Indy Car ( beware the bean-counters ) the "500" could become a Midget race !:2:

:26: < Tony George ( as seen leaving a family meeting ):3: :31:

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

i dont care what it takes, but why cant a prestiges event like the HUT 100 have a full field when there are 295 midgets for a race in the middle of winter? HUT 100 IS IN JEAPORDY OF BEING CANCELLED BECAUSE OF CAR COUNT. something needs to be done.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Take out the manufacturer's support and make it mandatory that race teams build their own motors or have an engine builder do the work. Isn't Esslinger backed by that F-word vehicle company? Remove Chevy, Mopar, Toyota, and F-word from backing teams and make engines be team built or outside engine builder.

This is what happened to the Indycar series and look what has happened to it? It's dead.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Forget about the engines, put everyone on the IRS tire and the high dollar engines will be irrelvant.The cars will be slowed down and the price of racing will be lowered.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

7. Develop a plan to neutralize engines so that expensive power plants are not an issue.

Number 4 would take care of number 7 if the testing were done by those actually interested in the betterment of the sport.
Do it for the Sprints as well as the midgets.

4. Do some scientific on track testing with various tires, compounds, wheel sizes etc etc using third party drivers and cars. Forget about this opinion and that opinion. The scientific data will tell the story.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

That was the best post of this entire thread.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

And neither one of you have a clue in China what the topic is about.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

No. I just prefer no to play your games. There are two people in your world. Those that agree with you, or those that are off-topic, attacking you personally, dim-whitted, and now apparently clueless.

P.S. How did your cars do this weekend?

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

This thread was started with 15 “Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing.” Since I believe these public forums are intended to be a medium of open discussion, I would like to offer some thoughts on these proposed “solutions.” Some may believe my thoughts have merit, and some may think I’m “off topic“. Either way, the world will continue to turn.
First, I too would like to see something done to contain the cost of midget racing. I do not see the practicality of Indy-car costs and Midget purses. However, a knee jerk reaction when writing rules will never work. Rules must be enforceable. They also must not backfire. If I remember correctly, at the time the “big box” sanctioning body increased the cubic inch displacement limits for the Fontana and the Esslinger midget engines, they both cost considerably less than the Pink Ford, which was winning most of the high profile races at the time. The intent was to make the cheaper engines competitive, not dominant. As soon as the displacement rules were changed, both manufacturers debuted new engines. The Esslinger started winning consistently. The Fontana made great gains. What was the result of all this? The “cheaper” engines are no longer “cheap”, and some owners stopped complaining about the Pink Ford and started complaining about the Esslinger.

Solution #1. Enforce the current rule book…
Yes, keeping the competitors honest is the right thing to do. But, this needs to be done in moderation. To disassemble a race engine in the dirt and dust filled environment of a race track pit area is unacceptable. Using the “P&G” pump to measure cubic inch displacement is marginally acceptable, but dirt can still find it’s way into the engine while the valves are being disabled. I would also be willing to bet that some of the car owners who constantly cry “Check that guy’s engine!” would be the first to cry “Foul!!!” when the race officials came calling to check his or her engine.

#2 Eliminate the tire monopoly.
Sounds good in theory. But be careful what you wish for. I remember the day when there was no tire rule (other than size.) The Firestone sports car “Rain Tire” won many races, Goodyear joined in and started making several compounds of midget tires, M&H Racemaster made several compounds of midget tires, McCreary (now American Racer) made midget tires, and then along came Hoosier. What would the car owners’ tire bill look like if all these companies re-started the tire war. What if they all made a competitive tire, but each brand had a tire that was better suited to different track conditions? In order to win, car owners would have to carry tires from each manufacturer in their trailers. The “Haves” would own every brand and compound of tire, not to mention the wheels to go with them. The “Have Nots” would soon start screaming for a tire rule.

#3. Limit the number of tires that can be used in one evening of racing.
Not a bad idea in theory. In order to enforce this rule, all you have to do is stamp the tires, right? What if a “wealthy” car owner brings more than one car to the track. He has his primary driver (or favorite son) in one car and puts a “patsy” in his second car, just to get the tire(s) stamped after qualifying. He knows the second car won‘t make the show, but that‘s ok, the tire(s) got stamped and will be used for the feature on the primary car. How many officials (watching 100% of the time) will it take to prevent this from happening?
Also, what happens when everyone shows up at a tire killer race track. The promoters did not prepare the track and tires are blowing left and right. The officials change the rules in the middle of the feature, and allow a tire change. (Remember Belleville a few years ago?) How many will scream bloody murder? How many will scream if the officials do not allow a tire change and the driver running 15th wins because his tires lasted to the end?

#5. Eliminate pit pass and entry fees for owners/drivers.
Pit passes pay for the insurance. Yes, at a profit for the promoters. Promoters are not in business to be a non-profit organization. They are not going to lose this source of revenue. They would simply pass these fees on to the crew members.
“Auto racing is the only venue where the entertainers pay a fee to perform.” Entertainers such as singers, comedians, etc. are not engaging in a hazardous activity. Concert promoters have no need for extra insurance coverage outside of their normal liability insurance.

#6. Pay a minimum towing fee for those traveling long distances to race.
Good idea, but where will this money come from?

#8. Consider adopting the new Ecotech midget engine for $10,000.
As a spec engine? And trade a tire monopoly for an engine monopoly? Not for me, thank you.

#9. Ban cockpit adjustable shocks.
I can’t argue too much against this. Banning cockpit adjustable shocks would be a somewhat harmless change, but the savings would be minimal.

#10. Ban titanium and carbon fiber parts.
Again I can’t argue against this. Just be sure to word the rule so it could be enforced. It has been said that a magnet will not stick to titanium. A magnet will not stick to aluminum or most stainless steels either.

#11. Develop a sensible weight rule that includes the driver.
I can’t argue against this either. However, for this rule to help contain costs, there would have to be a minimum weight rule for the car without the driver, and without ballast. What is ballast and what isn’t? How many batteries will fit in a midget? Eliminating the high cost materials would make this rule less necessary.

#12. Separate pavement and dirt championships.
There is a lot of room for debate on this one. Speaking only for myself, I like to see a champion, especially a national champion, demonstrate his or her prowess on both dirt and pavement. Personally, I would rather find a way to eliminate the need for a pavement/dirt dedicated car without going to a spec chassis. Easier said than done. How do you un-ring a bell, anyway? Any ideas?

#13. Incorporate the use of self starters.
Which will add considerable cost to the car owner. The cars would also need a clutch and flywheel, which could withstand the rigors of midget racing, and still fit in the existing chassis. Call me old fashioned, but for me part of the allure of midget and sprint car racing is the absence of starters.

#15. Stay off the mile and half mile tracks.
This would help save money for some car owners, but many racers like high speed tracks and the prestige that goes with them. Midgets running on half mile and mile tracks is not new. Car owners and drivers who dislike the big tracks can choose stay home, without affecting those who do like them.

Just my 2 cents.

Mark Ray
(only Mark Ray...please do not associate my views with anyone else)

Don, watched usac pump the fontana of chuck gurney jr. at the night before the500 this year. just answering your question.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Thanks for the info!!!

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------

Here are some of my comments on recent posts:

1. Stamping tires. If a team is running multiple cars, simply double stamp the tires on the second car or stamp them with an alternative mark.

2. Tire monopoly. There are tires currently available at about half the price that the monopoly tire company is charging. Competition is always good for the consumer also. You can always find gas cheaper, for example, where there are multiple gas stations.

3. Dust usually is not a problem when the races are over unless you are at Kokomo or Gas City. If the engine is going to be checked, roll it into the trailer out of the elements.

4. I've yet to read a post (or for that matter any source) by a promoter on this message board in reply to charging drivers and owners for pitpasses and entry fees and how that fee fits into the overall promoter budget. I don't think I have to pay for a pit pass to be insured. But if so, I'll gladly pay the promoter $1 and sign the waiver. BTW, a promoter would collect about $1000 from 20 drivers and owners. At $20 admission, he would only need to put 50 more people in his stands to make up the difference.

5. There is something drastically wrong with the promoter mindset when the water truck guy, track maintenance guys leave the track at the end of the evening with more payout cash in their pocket than the owners/drivers. Case in point: The Gundakers at Tri-City Gold Nationals last Fall paying the owners $30 for the evening and that was after the owners/drivers paid an expensive pit pass fee/entry fee. And I will bet that the water truck guy/ maintenance personnel did not pay to park/buy a pit pass or pay an entry fee. For lack of owner/driver representation ( called a UNION ), the ******* continues and by keeping quiet about it, owners/drivers are endorsing it.

6. Cockpit adjustable shocks. Sorry to ruin everybody's day on this, but adjustable shocks are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. AND EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE TO REPAIR.

7. Weight rule. The Strouds of St. Louis have written many times on the definitive way this can be accomplished with car/driver weight combined.

8. As much as I love the push trucks for nostalgic reasons, for today's contemporary crowd and to eliminate promoter expense, starters need to be looked at for future development and implementation. Ask a promoter if they would like to eliminate the push trucks. I already know the answer.

9. Half mile and miles. Fans on this message board are constantly concerned about car counts. They want to see large fields of cars show up at tracks. Sorry to ruin your day again, but don't look for more than 17 big box teams to show up September 12 at the Terre Haute half mile.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

I have enjoyed reading this topic so far, even with all it's ups and downs. Don even inspired me to go back to midgetmadness and try to find one of the old weight rule discussion topics i wrote about a few years back. I got what i thought of as a typical message board response, some well thought out, some not, some serious, some funny, but i guess that is what message boards are all about. The bottom line is it got other people thinking and discussing something i believed in. That is what i really enjoy about Don's topics, whether you argee or not, they make you think about the issues facing in sport we all love.

For those who are interested here is the the link to one of the old weight rule topics and it's responses. When i get some more time i'll see if I can find any others.

http://www.midgetmadness.com/forums/...wtopic=169&hl=

Basically to simplify things and put it in anexample that IOW member can relate to, it says that it would be a shame to see Shane Cottle disqualified for winning a midget race in a car that weighed 895, and the win given to second place driver Chad Boat in a car that that weighted 901. Especially when it is one of the easiest issues to fix.

Steve Stroud

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Driver plus car weight rule hypothetical situation:

Turkey Night Grand Prix. Championship on the line. A driver is in the hunt for the championship, weighs 140 pounds, his car is scratched right before the feature. His buddy says "take my car and go get the championship." His buddy weighs 180 pounds. Feature is ready to be pushed off. No time to add weight to the car. So what happens? What do you do about that 40 pounds? Are you SOL?

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Mark,

Just to be clear - I for one have never advocated a one-design, spec engine for the National Midgets and I agree with your above comment. Honestly, I really don't care WHAT goes on at the "National" level - to me, that whole thing is a huge mess that took years to get this goofed up and will take years to fix, if ever. As I see it, what is starting to happen in Midget Racing is the same thing we've seen happen in sprint Cars. We are starting to see a defined, high-end "National" type of car evolve, one that most average guys can't afford but that well funded teams will run in high profile events. I don't LIKE it, and if I had my way it would not BE like this, but at this point I think anybody who denies that this is happening is kind of sticking their head in the sand.

So OK, we have the high profile National series - USAC, and maybe one or two others. Not unlike the 410 world. But now, we have a chance for the "rest of us" to go race at our local track on Saturday night, and not feel the need to keep up financially with Tony and Kasey. We have the opportunity to develop the Midget equivalent of a 360. Still a real race car, and on the average short track most people couldn't tell 'em apart, but a whole lot easier to buy, and to keep running.

I guess what I'm saying here is that continueing to try and find ways to make the National division "All things for all people" is a lot like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Just take a look at the regional clubs around the country who are struggling to keep up with the current "National" formula - you can easily see it's not working.

Just MY .02...

Keith

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Greg, that i bit of a tough one, it would be a pretty rare situation, but it could happen. with any rule there can be up and downsides. For that specific case my first thought would be add fuel. Methanol weighs about 7 lbs. per gallon, so an extra 6 gallons over what you need will make you legal. Now you could say what if it was a similar situation at the Hut Hundred, and the tanks already full. Well, that is a tough one also. Like i said with any rule, there are going to be some situations where it may create a problem, but overall i would think it would improve competition.

By the way, i am not sure if the idea is included in topic i posted the link to or not, i've written about this a few times over the years, but at one time i wrote up a proposition to the MARA board before a meeting about going to an "either or" rule. Basically any 900 lb car would be legal without the driver, or a car/driver combination of about 1080 would also be legal. For my hypothetical IOW example this would probably let Cottle keep his win, as well as let Boat still run his 900 lbs car. The idea was a little bit of compromise of the exact spirit of the rule, to even up competition, but eliminated the problems of what happens when an outsider come to race with the club, or a car owner switches drivers etc. For instance i had 4 drivers in my car last year, Davey Ray, Kevin Olson, Tim Siner and Steve Knepper. There is quite weight difference with those guys, but my 900 lbs. car would always be legal under that type of rule. If i came back to driving full time and chose to, i could build a car that weighs in at 850 to help take away some of the disadvantage i have versus the lighter guys.

(by the way i hope Shane and Chad don't mind be used as an example, They just happened to be two of the top guys right now that popped into my head, LOL)

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

It is beginning to look like someone is listening, instead of shouting. IMHO, if you want to return midgets, to the heyday of even 20 years ago, ya gotta forget all about the fancy haulers, and racks of tires, and wheels, spare engines and that kind of stuff, you need to just sit down, and talk it over, with the guys that would like to be involved, I know to some, an engine that costs 10K sounds cheap, but to others, they just roll over and go back to sleep. I feel like, that to put a midget in the hands of a lot of folks that would like to race them, you need to sit down, and look at what engines are available in the salvage yards, and ones that most guys can build themselves, and let that be the beginning, most folks that are serious, can "afford" a good chassis, it's the engine that becomes a BIG issue, but if it were something he could build himself, and a friend or 2, maybe he would jump on that. I'm sure if you put the mechanic, back in the picture, things would get started. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I know, if I had to buy a spec engine, and have it baby sat by anyone but myself, I wouldn't even consider it, same with tires, cost cutting to me, begins when you and a buddy or 2, can do everything yourself, in your own garage, with tools you already have, there may be a few things to farm out, but, it wouldn't be much, nice paint jobs, and awesome sounding motors, make a nice picture, on a 1/4 mile race track. Bob

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Don, you want to leave with more money than the people that work at the track but the fact is, we're racers. We rarely make any money unless we win, and even sometimes when you do you still lose money. That is an ugly fact about racing and that's the way its always been. If we could make a bunch of money don't you think more people would do it?

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Banning cockpit adjustable shocks isn't really that big of a saving when you are only eliminating a $50 handle/cable. Because you still have an adjustable shock, just not cockpit adjustable. If you get rid of adjustable shocks then instead of having 1 shock per corner(4 total) that costs $500ea($450 without cable), you will now have around 4 shocks per corner(Minimum) at $125-$175ea. Not a huge savings if you ask me; plus why do it like we used to with a truck load of shocks when we can get modern with only 4 plus 2 spare.

Don't even say spec shocks because you are fooling yourself if you think that can be kept in check.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Those are very good points about the shocks. It's just "shocking" for the initial investment. I just had one repaired and it cost $200!!!!

Regarding the Slide posting: "The way it's always been done" song and dance doesn't fly with me, sorry. Leaving the track after putting on a show for a promoter with less money than the maintenance workers is ******* and disgusting.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

yeah Don I agree, but I would be surprised to meet ANY racer who operates his own car that makes money. I don't care if you're racing go-carts, mini-sprints, midgets, or sprint cars, you're not going to make money.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

I'm not talking about making money. I'm talking about leaving the track with some dignity. $30 after paying outrageous pit pass and entry fees is not acceptable. You are missing the point here entirely.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

all a post like this does is make me want to sell my racecar. while hoping the rookies looking to buy a car are not reading this.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Do you want me to sugar coat it for you? Why not point it out now before someone goes out and spends 10k on a mini sprint or 30k on a sprint car? I don't like it as much as the next guy but its a cruel fact. As long as I still love racing I will continue to do it though.

---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

Yeah I don't like the fact that USAC has an entry fee. Or a membership fee. The pitpass should cover any entry fee's or memberships to race with a "club."

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

oh boy.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Keith,

I know what your intentions are with the Ecotec engine. I just don’t agree with the sealed/spec engine concept. Before you call me a hypocrite :2: I will admit to enjoying my time in the Focus series. I just think the sealed / spec engine concept is the wrong way to address the cost issues haunting midget racing today. I consider midget racing to be a professional form of motorsports, even on a regional level. And I personally don’t care for spec engines or spec chassis in professional motorsports. I promise to disagree with you without hating you.:32:


Mark

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

this is my first post on the subject. i've read pretty much all of the posts with an open mind. i too have a few opinions of my own:

1. has anyone considered the posibility of running the same tire on dirt and pavement? a tire could be constructed with tread that lasts a night on pavement, then is still good enough to run on the dirt the next night. also, how about having to run narrower axles. have a taller height rule for pavement cars as well or pretty soon the drivers will be lying on their backs in the cars.

2. i'm all for combo cars and no split dirt/pavement series. i'm not a pavement fan at all all though i know many of you are. i'm from the west coast and i can use the western states series as a great example. 10-12 cars on pavement at madera and stockton, and 20+ at ventura and bakersfield with i believe 27 at hanford for the usac/bcra show. give more of an incentive for running both.

3. the problem that i find in the usac midgets is their scheduling. the western states series ping pongs back and forth every week with a dirt race then a pavement race. we don't have the luxury of having a ton of tracks close enough to eachother to keep the cost of travel low. teams are having to make at least one 6 hour trip a month.

4. midget racing needs to be more localized like sprint car racing. all of these tracks have weekly sprint car shows...why not midgets? eliminate the sanctioning body that spreads the series all of over the place and have the tracks host the weekly shows. more drivers near a track could get into the sport because they wouldn't have to drive the 6 hours to compete.

5. i have no problem with cockpit adjustable shocks. for one, the fans don't know nor could they care less. i don't feel that it's a big enough issue.

6. the officials definately need to do a better job at enforcing the rulebook.

7. i personally love midget racing because of their speed and twitchiness. hypothetically, i would want for the cost of engines to go down without cuttin the size. how do we do this...i really have no idea.

8. no spec engine! the focus series is not midget racing in it's truest form.

9. are engine builders selling for a fortune because they are greedy and can get away with it or do they really cost that much to build (i have not researched this...i really don't know).

10. i really can't understand why so few people get into the TQ's. they are really cheap with a large selection of motors to chose from. they really are a great series, they just don't have the major sponsors to back them.

please don't hate me...this is just what i think

mitchell johnson

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

The only problem I see with the tq's is that no one really builds the chassis anymore that I know of. *someone correct me if I'm wrong.* And the engines need some work before they're dropped into the car.

I would love to run mini-sprints non-wing more, but none of the promoters will do it.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

If we stayed off the 1/2 Mile or bigger tracks we would lose the Copper World Pavement, the Hut 100, the Night Before the 500,Turkey Nite, 3 Crown and the race coming up that is becoming more and more popular leading up to the brickyard.

Some say: Good Riddance; midgets on the 1/2 miles and miles are too fast and dangerous. Problem is; there are between 30 and 50 plus cars that run many of these races. Obviously some people like racing at these tracks. The irony to this is that we(including me) complain about the cost of pavement racing, but the big shows on pavement outdraw the big shows on dirt.

I can honestly say: If the Midgets ran on 3 Dirt Miles a year, I would still own one because I really like racing them on those tracks. I can't afford a SC at this time, but for me, a midget would be great. Thats just me. I love that type of racing.


If we are saying don't worry what USAC does, then why care the size of track they race. I think Powri and ARDC have it right in they do their own thing. While I believe the ARDC is a little knee jerk on some decisions, it's their deal and they run as seen fit. They have come back from the dead.

As far as Badger goes; I would have to research the situation to get a better idea of the situation. The fact that the Wilke family doesn't run there each week anymore accounts for two-three cars, but they are still racing. Personally, I think this is a great time for guys who want to run the Prarie but don't have A plus cars. You are going to make shows and probably run top 10.

Don, I agree the initial cost for shocks is staggering, but it's how it's looked at and as the market for the shock business changes, and it's changing rapidly; I think you will see the repair costs come down alot for those who can't rebuild them themselves.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Mark,

You are a good man and you always put a real nice car on the track - I'll always have a lot of respect for you and what you do. And, I really don't think we are having much of a disagreement here. In fact, your team was a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I'll say it one more time - I really don't favor any kind of one-design engine formula for National Midgets. I'll define "National" as any group that can bring thier membership to Bellville or ORP and hang with the front runners. These days, any group that can do that has some members that don't mind spending a lot of money.

Now, we can talk all day about how to get to a point where guys can buy a wrecked Pinto at the junkyard, change the oil filter, and go win Bellville. I'm not sayin' I'm FOR that or AGAINST that - I'm just sayin' it ain't gonna happen. Ever. I don't make the rules - I just know what they are...

I did the focus program so that competitors - you and your son are a perfect example - could get INTO Midget Racing. I never meant for it to be the final destination, only the starting point. And, nobody can deny that for all its faults, the program got a whole lot of new drivers into the Midgets. Look at the finishing order of just about any Big Sprint or Midget race these days and you'll see that ~1/4 to 1/3 of the competitors graduated from the Focus division. That is all I ever intended the program to do.

Now this new engine program is something a little different. It offers a whole bunch more performance than the last one. But, I STILL don't see it as something that could/should replace the National division, or even be PART of it. Frankly, I don't WANT to be part of that mess...

You stated that you believed ALL Midget Racing, even regional, should be professional racing. Well, I agree with that too. But the reality - the cold hard facts - are that at this level, today, Professional regional Midget racing just does not pencil out. Much of the debate within this thread centers around ways to MAKE it pencil out. I believe there is more than one way to do it - my solution is just one of them.

Best of luck,

Keith

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Oh how I love these threads.... so many idea's.... so little action.

I am sure we have all heard the saying, "the definition of insanity is to do the same thing, but expect different results". Midget racing is synonomous with insanity.

Without knowing all the individuals on this post, I know that at least two of us (Keith and I) are putting our money where our mouth is to create something new (i.e. a 360 Midget Division).

If you really want to change something, it is not done on message boards. You can use message boards to get the word out, but the rhetoric changes nothing (although it might make us feel better for a fleeting moment). You have to get out and make it happen. It is simple (although a lot of work)... decide what you think is best and start a series. If you are an owner, change your cars to the rules and start running them. Sell your idea to your local tracks and other racers, get some shows and race. If you are right, your car counts will keep growing, and eventually you will race for better purses. Just like a successful track owner you have to be willing to promote. I have actually found it to be just as rewarding as racing.

I will spare you my story, but I can tell you using the simple concepts of cost control via a sealed spec engine (more than one choice), spec tire, and limiting travel. Our little group has grown from 2 cars to 8, in less than a year. Doing a joint race with the BCRA last weekend saw a field of 12 cars (remember we are less than a year old). A year from now I really think we will have close to 20 cars in our group. Why, the average guy can afford to race with us. We look like midgets, the cars perform like midgets and we put on a good show. A show that will get better as more of our guys transition to the EcoTec engine.

If I can create something, so can all of you. If you really want to change midget racing you have it in your power to do so. If we all work in our areas to create the same thing, collectively we will set the path of future generations of midget racers. When and if that happens, it will be something to be proud of.

If you truly want to stop the insanity drop me a line, I would be happy to help.

Good Luck
Rick Young
www.capitalcitymidgets.com

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

... Here is a shot of Rick Young driving the #98 RAM Racing / RRE Chevy ECOtec. This was taken at Placerville, last Saturday. Getting rudely shoved out of the way is Lonny Alton driving a SuperFocus car.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

I did not "rudely" shove him out of the way, I gave him two warning bumps that I was coming through. After all it really was not my fault, I was not used to driving a car with that much torque and I kept going in way to hot :6:

For any of you interested in this engine, it rocks.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Sounds like these guys have a plan and it's working. Congratulations. Very refreshing to hear about something that is going in the right direction.

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Rick,

I'm sorry, but I must disagree. Where I come from, using another competitors car to correct a loose condition is considered bad form...

Unfortunately for you, the evidence is well documented. Next time use the wrenches.:5:

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

Good thing for him you weren't driving your Lotus. That driver obviously didn't realize the importance of the person he was dealing with.

What are the payouts going to be once the series gets established with car counts of twenty plus?

Re: Some Solutions for the Betterment of Midget Racing
 

1st- he should have known, I am the one that gave him an engine so he could race :)

2nd - tough question, one that I do not have an answer for right now. I would hope with 20+ cars on a consistent basis we would get to the point where we get $200+ per car. But it is not just car count that will get us there, there are other factors as well (i.e. the economy, competition for the race dates, value we bring to the promoters). The problem with getting the purse we want is frankly the fans. In this area they do not turn out for midget racing. We need to win them over and when that happens and the promoter can fill his stands when we are in town, then and only then will be be able to negotiate for more.

Too often we are still the undercard for a larger show, as long as that is the case you will get undercard money.

So not only do we have to build car counts, we have to build a following as well. Between the two, the car counts will be the easier to build.