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Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Actually, you need to work on the reading comprehension. Your most recent post is mostly off topic. I can't find anything in that post that specifically addresses my proposal which started this thread. This thread is about reducing the costs of midget racing, specifically tires for this discussion. So let me help you out: If you don't agree with my proposal, then list the joys of spending the max on midget tires. You travel around the country quite a bit. For example, do you stay at the most expensive $500 hotel penthouse suites? Most of the teams that you follow stayed at the 5 star hotels when they were in Tulsa... for free. I stayed at the $39 hotwire special near the airport.
Don't bother discussing USAC which I think your post is really about. I already know where the president stands on midget costs. Spend, spend, spend was the message I got from the PRI article. There are only about 10-12 teams that can afford that road. They're in the minority and this thread is about the majority, like hundreds of them that aren't sponsored by Toyota, Chevrolet, Red Bull, etc etc. And those teams get tons of stuff free. If those 10-12 teams want to spend a million dollars to find the new speed that you're personally looking for, let them do it. They are in the minority and really don't represent the majority. The problem really is with all the other midget orgs around the country that want to be like big bro. They're the ones that got us in this mess by not thinking for themselves and applying common sense with a few exceptions like ARDC which refuses to go along with the new Esslinger and Fontana. At least they had half a brains and didn't buy it. |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
My apologies, Don. I was responding to those posts made on page four, not the post made three pages prior. That's usually how threads go. I'm not sure how you can get a post more on-topic than mine. I guess I'd need to live in your bizarro world to understand...
Honestly, I'm tired of you going off-topic of the natural flow of conversation around here....why must you stop a good debate only to bring people back to whatever you want to believe? I only bring up my points to shed some realistic light on the topic. Believe it or not, you're not going to change the world. I respect the fact that you want to fix some things within midgets, but you're crying about things that are much bigger than midget racing....yes, the rich get richer. Yes, it's tough for middle class people. That's not exclusive to midget racing. Sorry if you don't want to hear what I have to say, but I'd hope someone as intelligent as yourself would see the objectivity and rationality in my posts... |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
This thread is not about USAC.
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Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: 1. Cut your bill in half? ... at least? I have yet to see any tire manufacturer produce competitive tires that are less than half the price of the ones we are running now. Please enlighten me ... 2. Possible, but there is no way of proving this. 3. This is OFF TOPIC, being that it has nothing to do with choice between manufacturers. 4. Again, OFF TOPIC. 5. If anything, different tire manufacturers would hurt the competition on the track. Everybody running the same tire brand neutralizes the competition. Face it, you just want a 'Cheapest Tire on the Market that lasts forever policy" |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
No all dm wants to do is ***** and complain. He's the old man that sits in the bar and complains about how everybody does everything wrong because its not his way.
Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Don,
I would like to address your statement in post #35 where you once again in an attempt to bolster your own position on a topic by offering false information. You referenced a 50% drop in participants at Angell Park Speedway in Sun Prairie, WI. I HAVE done the research and submit the following FACTS for your disection. These numbers refer to car count. Year Average High Low 1999 37.5 49 30 2000 38.3 54 28 2001 37.2 49 31 2002 40.6 50 33 2003 34.3 45 28 2004 33 43 26 2005* 33.2 39 26 2006* 33.7 38 26 2007 34 51 23 2008 26 37 18 * these do not include stand-alone Saturday USAC National events run in 2005 & 2006. I will admit last year was not what anyone wanting to actually promote Midget racing can use as a tool to say things are A-OK. I hope this year is better but I think the economy and fuel prices had more to do with a bad year than any tire rule did. Angell Park Speedway and Badger are working hard to make things work up here and really do not need you or anyone else trying to create the illusion of eventual demise. Badger has 3 rookies this year that I know of and 2 more that are going to be working on crews for the experience needed to pilot there own cars. I'll quit now before I go to far, cause I really want to ya know. On Topic and Factual, Bob Parks |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
I went back and calculated from the BMARA web site. From 1999 to 2008 you've had a drop in BMARA regular car count of close to 50% with a 5% error of cars that took the green flag for your shows. In 2008, you had one show with a car count of 16. Lowest car count in 1999 was 30. That is close to my reported 50%. BMARA car count is not the topic on here. I referred to it once, only as a reply to another post if I remember correctly. Regardless, the bottom line is that the car counts have been on a decline since 1999, not an upswing. We will leave it at that unless you want the thread to take a turn and discuss your club. I'd rather we discuss ways to cut the cost of midget racing and how that can help BMARA prosper in the future. I'm not going to name names on here, but there was a very well known BMARA race team with two cars for sale in the 2009 Chili Bowl pits. I asked someone in the know what was going on. This person told me they couldn't afford it anymore. Do I need to continue?
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Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Originally Posted by donmoore10: |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
I guess if all you look for is negative, all you dwell on is the negative, That,quite frankly is all your going to see in an issue.
I look at those numbers and see that with the exception of last year the car counts at APS have been fairly consistant, and I don't see that tires had anything to do with the car counts. Are the tires over priced, I don't have to buy any tires but yes I think 140.00 is alot. If that's really what they cost. I'll take your word for it. I really don't think open tire rules will be the saving grace for midgets but it's a start. I personally would like to see it at least tried. Really trying to stay on topic, Bob Parks |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: However, if you looked at the data from an objective point of view, you would not look at a one night high or a one night low, but the average for the year. When you look at the average for the year for the 10 year period, one would say exactly what Parks said. With the exception of last year, the car counts have been fairly consistent. In fact, in the early years of the decade there was an actually increase in the average car count. If you are going to use numbers to make your point, make sure that you are telling the whole truth and not the truth you want to make. Your 50% reduction post is not a truthful statement. |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
That is HILARIOUS ... you take the low car count for the year and the low car count for another year and use that to justify that the average car count has dropped close to 50%!
Welcome to Don Moore Math 101 ... It doesn't take a teacher to realize that is not a very logical approach. What about that midget group in PA, ARDC? They had their highest car counts ever last year probably. Then again, we wouldn't want to look at anything positive, would we. |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Keep spinning guys. You're making me dizzy. Sounds like you're having a bad hair day with that 50% statistic. You may want to call the EMS paramedics. Here are the results from the 1999 Hut Hundred. Call an undertaker. Let me refresh your memory. 22 cars showed last year for this historic race. Yeah, 22 cars. Start spinning, guys. That's a 66.6666666% drop in car count. I also see that approximately 50-52 of the 64 car owners are either out of business or have dropped off the face of the earth. Thanks.
USAC: MCI WorldCom National Midget Car Series Race Results, Hut Hundred 3 September 1999 USAC MCI WORLDCOM NATIONAL MIDGET CAR SERIES RACE RESULTS: September 1, 1999 -- Terre Haute, Indiana - Terre Haute Action Track - Hoosier Lottery "Hut Hundred" QUALIFICATIONS: 1. Clay Klepper, 17, Hartman-22.405; 2. Jason Leffler, 9, Lewis-22.518; 3. Dan Boorse, 88x, Boorse-22.992; 4. Michael Lewis, 85, Lewis-23.012; 5. Johnnie Crawford, 1st, McKinnie-23.149; 6. A.J. Fike, 69, Fike-23.234; 7. Tracy Hines, 32, Martz/Boles-23.327; 8. Walt Stearly, 42w, Stearly-23.397; 9. Andy Michner, 26, JS-23.398; 10. Critter Malone, 7m, Malone-23.427; 11. Steve Paden, 17H, Hartman-23.543; 12. J.J. Yeley, 6, Potter-23.650; 13. Davey Bray, 33, Ray-23.720; 14. Kevin Doty, 11w, Wilke-Pak-23.741; 15. Mark Freeland, 4, McKeehan-23.779; 16. John Lucas, 52, Lucas-23.792; 17. Russ Gamester, 29, B & B-23.796; 18. Nick Lundgreen, 49, Lundgreen-23.835; 19. Randy Koch, 82, Kittleson-23.847; 20. Bill Baue, 10, Baue-23.916; 21. Jerry Coons, Jr., 7, CED-23.930; 22. Jay Drake, 15, Lawson-23.968; 23. Steve Knepper, 55, Knepper-23.982; 24. Steve Barth, 14, Barth-23.995; 25. John Heydenreich, 95, Covington-24.046; 26. Kevin Newton, 14x, Newton-24.048; 27. Travis Welpott, 18, P & E-24.158; 28. Dave Darland, 91, Lewis-24.185; 29. Matt Westfall, 54, Westfall-24.191; 30. David Bridges, 11, MB-24.204; 31. Tony Elliott, 66T, Lamers-24.222; 32. Donnie Lehmann, 31, Lehmann-24.227; 33. Johnny Parsons, 41, Griffith-24.228; 34. Ralph Liguori, 6rr, Ligouri-24.236; 35. A.J. Felker, 37, Felker-24.253; 36. Rick Treadway, 88, Treadway-24.356; 37. Jerry Nemire, 16s, Nemire/Yager-24.360; 38. Kevin Koch, 15k, Huston-24.389; 39. Dane Carter, 77, Carter-24.556; 40. Adam Clarke, 76x, Clarke-24.577; 41. Jimmy Davies, 97, Davies-24.648; 42. Scott Hatton, 11x, Wilke-Pak-24.666; 43. John Nervo, 21, Nervo/Coggin-24.776; 44. Jack Hewitt, 23, Parker-24.786; 45. Andy Pierce, 3p, AMS-24.801; 46. Brian Gerster, 41x, Huston-24.932; 47. Dean Franklin, 84, VanSteenwyk-24.933; 48. Ron Smoker, 24, Parker-24.951; 49. Steven Graham, 14A, Graham-25.005; 50. Boyd Calvert, 23x, Calvert-25.024; 51. Ryan Newman, 60, Potter-25.067; 52. Tony Beaber, 66, Beaber-25.115; 53. Ed Carpenter, 3, TG Racing-25.162; 54. Jason Lynch, 35, Lynch-25.286; 55. Wayne Chinn, 71x, Chinn-25.330; 56. Michael Roselli, Jr., 98, Roselli-25.382; 57. Mike Hess, 51, Hess-25.467; 58. Scooter Ellis, 73x, Ellis-25.516; 59. Chad Davenport, 43, Davenport-25.739; 60. Jeff Flesher, 72, Flesher-25.833; 61. Roger Branson, Jr., 3x, Branson-26.396; 62. Bill Schemonia, 17s, Schemonia-26.541; 63. Roger McCluskey, Jr., 111, McCluskey-27.384; 64. Robert Keelan, 17x, Keelan-NT; 65. #9x, Lewis-NT. |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Mr. Parks, thanks from some insight from a sanction point of view. Interesting perspective.
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Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Don, wasn't there a conflict with midgets race dates between organizations last year between THAT and a track in Illinois and a 10,000 to win sprint car race in Lawrenceburg?
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Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Meanwhile, the car counts from the 1999 Turkey Night to 2008 and the 2000 Night Before the 500 (I couldn't find '99 results) both went up. Those races are on pavement, which we would all agree has been worse in terms of rising costs.
Now, instead of making these statistics say something that isn't really true, I would just ask that we try to figure out why these problems haven't affected these large pavement races. I mean, Turkey Night had 64 cars this past year!! Tires are worse on the pavement side, correct? So what I ask is, why are these races (and pavement midget counts are up or holding steady in general throughout) doing well? Why are IMW car counts good? Why is the Chili Bowl bigger than ever? And why is the Hut Hundred almost dead (and I can tell you, they won't have any cars this year, either)? Why is Badger hurting? Quite frankly, you don't need a high-dollar USAC competitive car to be tough with Badger, so why is the count going down? |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: Changing topics in mid-thread is no way to defend a bad position. If I really wanted to, I would actually do the research to figure out the growth that the Chili Bowl has in the last 10 years. I am guessing that the number is well over 50% growth. |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
You're really getting desperate now with the Chili Bowl. Uh.. guys.. Go back and read my original post and write your thoughts on how you're going to get midgets back on the track. Yeah, do something novel and post something intelligent that will help revive the sport.
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Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: I don't remember the year, (I think it may have been the night Vince Osman was killed in a sprinter) but we by-passed a 16th street race for a show at Kokomo and I believe that in the state of Indiana that night there where over 80 midgets running between the two. The reason wasn't that the tires where any cheaper or the motors much cheaper(A Gearte or Brayton was about $20,000/Esslinger was $18,000 I believe/Pink Ford was $30,000 and I'm not sure about Fontana) it was because there where two other organizations PROMOTING midget racing in pretty much the same platform it is today.(The show at Kokomo may have been A NAMARS Five Crown race. Which has basically morphed into Indiana Midget Week. So between Wisconson,Illinois,Indiana, and Ohio/Michigan area you had 4-6 organizations promoting midget racing.(Depending if you put UMARA and The All-Star Midgets in there.) According to my numbers(Which are a guestimate at best) between 16th Street Regulars, USAC Regulars, and NAMARS regulars, that made up around 50 of the cars that Attended the 1999 Hut 100. Last year on the night of the Hut 100, there where over 50 cars partcipating in midget events witin 300miles of each other as well as a Sprint Car race that drew a large car count and paid more to win than both races combined. I personally think that that is alot of midgets considering the other options people had. I may be completely wrong about this, but I do not believe we will be able to find promotors to put on IRS type shows(I use them as the example as this is basically the series who's rules pkg. we are talking about) for the purses we see midgets running for today. The Focus series couldn't command higher purses and I do not believe that IRS series will be able to either. People already have a hard time getting promotors to put on Midget shows for the higher Powri and USAC purses because it is hard to show them that these classes justify the higher amount. With so many Local sprint shows and then throw in traveling sprint shows that will undercut purses for the sake of a date, it's hard to sell this product. In many ways Sprint Car racing today is what Midgets where in the 40's-50's. Now, If the ASCS puts together a pkg. and the costs are cheaper and they are willing to pay equal purses to Powri and USAC and if Iaia can keep up with motors and they schedule the shows with their sprint cars, then that may work because of their reputation and their dedication. |
Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
It seems to me that people think things just "happen". Like costs of racing and decreases in purses just "happened", like they're an act of God and there's nothing anyone can do about it. People are responsible for the direction that everything goes. Racing has always been about a man's ego and they will spend almost anything to beat the next guy, regardless of the purse. Why do you think people are spending $30,000 on a motor alone to win $4,000 or less?
Don, unfortunately there are too many people with more money than you who choose to spend it on a race team. If you believe there are enough owners out there who are tired of spending money, then your efforts would be better focused trying to organize this group of owners and promoting yourselves to area tracks instead of posting on a message board that clearly doesn't want to be part of anything you have to say, regardless of its validity. |
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