Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

I guess you missed my point here! They can build tires to run more then one race! And be just as fast the second time around! Now they build tires for time trails and heats - semi and then the feature! Too many compounds!!!!!!!!!!!!! Build one for the left side and one for the right side! Today just like nascar you can sell them junk and they will say the tire cut down! They have no competition! In my days with firestone we loved to kick goodyears ass! I remeber the usac twin 50's at the indy mile one night aj foyt was on new goodyears and after hot laps! Drove to my van and told his guys to get this f-in tires off and put on what duke says! He beat pancho in both races! Pancho had the same white dot 16's! And run 2nd. Same rr in both races!

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

It's not just $5,000 for the year. It's roughly $1500-$2500 a pavement race. Not including races that have a practice night before and not including testing.(Which is a whole other subject)

It isn't that they have so many different compounds that you go through a night, it's that you go through so many tires period of the heat cycles.

I would be in favor of first a limit of tires used by stamping them before the first practice before developing all new tires. Someone mentioned they did it in Vegas and it worked out well.

Instead of 2-3 sets a night you are looking at a set with a LR or two added because of stagger.

I'm not saying that this is the ultimate solution, but it is one that I believe is a step in the right direction and could lead the sport down a path that can keep it more than just viable, but thriving as well.

If you can save $700-$1,000 a night on tires, that is a huge impact on the smaller teams ability to get to the next show or repair whatever might be wrong with their cars.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

I agree, and because Don doesn't run pavement, I was speaking more about dirt than pavement.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

If I can save a dime, that would be a victory considering the sport has absolutely no committed effort to reduce costs and no vision of where we are going in the future.

Doing nothing results in nothing.

Really quiet from all the midget rogs.

Read the Dave Argabright article in current issue of SPRINT AND MIDGET MAG.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Don maybe u can find some rich parents thats thinks little billy or sally is the next tony stewart !!!

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Hold it right there, did you catch that? 20,000 people at a midget race?
If we could be racing midgets in front of 20,000 people today, I think the payout would be such that we wouldn't be bickering about the cost of tires or how long they last.
The question should be.... How do we fill the stands again?
I personally think those days are LONG gone.
Racing is not chaep. If you can't afford to do it at a certain level, be humble and step down a notch or two. Winning is still fun whatever "level" you are at.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

During that era at the Ohio State Fair, admission to all events inside the grounds was free.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

As far as i can tell, everyone on here has a valid point, but i think the biggest issue is still getting the fans in the grandstands. Unfortunatley midget and sprint car racing are both dying, and its not something that can be reversed just by cutting a few costs for the teams here and there. There seems to be lack of promoting with some clubs or tracks. If the decline of fans in the stands does not stop, we wont have to worry about tires anymore, becuase the tracks just wont run.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

What needs to be done is too educate young kids to the fact that "drifting" was pretty much invented by dirt racers and is alive and well at the local dirt tracks across America. These kids are going crazy over this "drifting" sport and it is attracting big corporate $$$$ but, if you ask a kid if he's ever been to a sprint car race, he'll ASK: WHAT IS A SPRINT CAR? I taught school for 30 years and talked to kids about racing. Young kids simply are not being exposed to the sport. I went to the non-wing races at East Bay, each year they had them, and the crowds were terrible and very, very old. I was 53y/o the last show they had, and I brought the average age in the stands down by 10-15 years!!!! It really was sad. Not that there is anything wrong with us "older" fans but, as we die off no one is replacing us. It is a huge promotion problem. There are great resources out there to tap, but it takes lots of leg work and being on the phone to get it done. Most promotors today either don't have the will or, the ingenuity to get it done. They would rather simply add classes of cars that bore the fans to death.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

WE STARTED OUT TALKING TIRES! NOW FANS? LET ME SAY THIS! THERE IS TO MANY TRACKS IN INDIANA RACING SPRINT CARS! THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU GO OFF ON ME! FRI SAT SUN YOU CAN GO TO 10 TRACKS IN A 90 MIN. DRIVE FROM INDY! FIRST HOW MANY FANS CAN AFFORD TO GO 3 OR 4 TIMES A WEEK? THEN HOW MANY CAR OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO RACE 3 TIMES A WEEK FOR $1000 -$1300 TO WIN? YOU HAVE DRIVERS THAT CAN'T WIN AT SOME TRACKS SO THEY RACE WHERE THERE THE BIG FISH! SO THE FANS DON'T SEE ALL THE DRIVERS AND CARS AT ONE TRACK RACING FOR MORE MONEY!!!!!! AND YES THERE IS NOT VERY MANY PROMOTERS LEFT IN THE USA! NOW BLAST AWAY!!!!!!!:angry-smiley-007:

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

YOUR RIGHT! WITH ALL THIS TEENAGE DRIVERS YOU HAVE NOW HAVE THEM TAKE THERE CARS TO SCHOOL WITH SOME GREAT VIEDO! AND TAKE ABOUT SPRINT AND MIDGET RACING AND THEN WORK WITH THE PROMOTERS FOR A STUDENT PASS FOR $ 4-5 DOLLARS! SOLD AT THE SCHOOL! I WAS WITH JIMMY CARUTHERS AND RICK GOUDY WHEN AGGIE HAS US AT A HIGH SCHOOLS IN LONG BEACH AND ANAHEIM PROMOTING THE TURKEY NITE RACE WITH MIDGETS AND WE RUN THEM AROUND THE SCHOOL TRACK! VERY SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!:checkered:

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Agreed! There are other factors keeping fans out of the stands (like gas prices, too many other options, etc.) but I think the main issue is lack of promotion. When was the last time you heard a 30-second radio spot advertising the weekend's action at your local track? When was the last time you saw a flyer posted somewhere? When, if ever, have you seen a TV ad for a dirt race? And promotion doesn't even have to be on that scale; you can start with simple things like half off admission for a group of people, giveaway nights like baseball parks do, bands during intermission, etc.

I know Barhorst ran a TV commercial for his Kamp midget week show a couple years back, and someone said something about Helfrich doing radio ads down south, but the fact remains that promotion is a lost art. Sprint car racing is such a good product that it sells itself, but you've got to get new faces in the door that first time to get them hooked.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

I hate to see this go off-topic, because I still believe that the pavement tires need to be addressed.(Although when you see car counts like T-Nite, it's a hard argument to make. Might as well be fighting windmills)

That said, I agree with Duke. Too much of a good thing. Great for drivers wanting to make laps, but tough for racers and promotors wanting to make money.

We are also living in an age where people would rather "do" than "watch" and I can't blame them. The sport of racing is so diversified today with all of the different racing options that many of the people who would have been sitting in the stands on Fri.-Sun. are off racing something themselves or their kids are racing.

There are the rare days such as the sometimes rescheduled Oct. day race at Winchester when all of the other racers aren't racing and it's a nice Oct. day when you are reminded just how good the crowds can be. It is more of a mirage than anything because of the reschedule, but as a longtime fan it makes you feel good to see so many people enjoying the same thing you are.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

in reply to mr. moore's statement about ARDC not allowing esslingers and the bigger fontana...the 172 fontana and the rhino spec motor are not allowed. as far as the essingers, there is discussion about not allowing any overhead cam motors but as of now, the 155 is still legal. the rhino and the ST were voted down because of not having the ability to properly police the tech aspect of the motors.
ARDC is a working mans club...plain and simple. they try to keep a strong watch on costs and do what is best for the club and the racers. there is money being spent, but not at the rate of some of the more national level org's.
the difference, IMO, is that you dont need to run new tires every night out, or a new "national" engine because the majority of the tracks we run on are slicked up modified or late model tracks where horsepower isnt the most important thing.
since the club has grown over the past few seasons, there is more of a demand for bookings and the money is getting better...both are factors in the continual growth.
taking the wings off a few seasons ago has lead to more of a fan following and a very unique presence in an area where most everything else runs wings.
promoters and tracks are starting to promote ARDC races and are seeing the results pay off at the FRONT gate, which leads to them wanting more shows and the willingness to pay more for those shows.
i know this reply is not in direct response to the original post. it is more directed towards everything discussed in this thread and how, by not doing everything "the way usac does it", ARDC is one of the few clubs to be growing as others lose cars.

usac seems to control how all the sprint and midget groups do things, just like the world of outlaws seem to control all of the 410 winged sprint stuff around the country.
both usac and the WoO are controlled by a few well financed teams/manufacturers whose interest isnt the local 410 racer or the ARDC midget guy....their interest is to sell their products....so they leverage the org's to make things legal so they can make a nice profit but from where they sit all the way down, it costs everyone else more.....the ford focus series is the textbook on how the system works for those with influence....and also how those with influence took a perfectly good concept and series and destroyed it.
maybe its time for racers, teams, clubs and org's to stop worrying about usac's "guidelines" and worry more about how to get more cars in their pits or signing up with their club.....then promote the hell out of it locally. only then can you expect to be able to get the purses up. the best racing in the world doesnt mean a thing if there is no one there to see it.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

When was the Rhino voted down? Why was it voted down? It's a restricted motor with low RPM's. Whats the difference in the tech of a Esslinger ,Fontana or Gearte? Why not allow an overhead cam motor? To me it's all the same.

Don't think for one second that a new GB Series Gearte style isn't an expensive motor.

ARDC is a thriving club, but it is because they have found a place where they are unique. They run non-wing when no one else does. They also where lucky to have someone like Mike Miller who was willing to bring 3-5 cars to the races and run the club when it was in trouble and had low car counts.

I'm not saying that ARDC isn't on a good path as it is a great club, but too much regulation can back fire as well.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

I could not have said that any better!!! Congratulations on a GREAT POST!!!

This is the EXACT REASON that you haven't heard from USAC or any other midget organization on this subject.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

the rhino was voted down at the last rules meeting, a couple weeks ago.
the 2 issues were that SOME people claimed the motor was too fast, which it is, under the right conditions and the right setup under the car (discussed in my previous post) and that it would be a lot harder to tech due to it being sealed in 3-5 places...among other reasons. the opponents of this motor felt it would be to easy to cheat it up and reseal it. my thoughts are that if it starts to show a performance advantage on tracks where it is at a disadvantage, that would be a pretty good tip off that someone was playin dirty, but if it continued to run well on the slicked up, no bite tracks, it is doing what it was built to do.

there is a line of thinking regarding this and other motor issues that i wont get into here due to lack of space, but would gladly discuss on the phone with you, if you would like. nothing real dramatic or negative but it all goes back to trying to keep the playing field as close to level as possible within the club. IE...not allowing motors that would immediately obsolete anything currently being run (NEMA allowing esslinger XT's, for example)

mike miller did a fantastic job helping the club to get back on its feet. but the "burnout factor" became too much and he took some time off. it was nice to see him get back out with his daughters and run a few shows again this year.

"I'm not saying that ARDC isn't on a good path as it is a great club, but too much regulation can back fire as well."

absolutely! i dont attend the meetings very often because i hate the ******** of racing. i did go to the last one and it seems that most of the problems of the past year were discussed and measures taken to rectify. the biggest problem i see is that the club went from 16-17 cars per race to 25-35 and with it brought a lot more people, personalities and ideas to have to deal with and keep as happy as possible. showing again the importance of the saying "shut up and race"

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Just remember that the Esslinger XT is still cheaper than any Gearte, Mopar and Toyota.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

You can buy a new Sesco Mopar in the very low 20's. That's cheaper than all of them, I believe.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Duke - That is the most intelligent thing I've ever heard you say.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

THANKS I GUESS? THEN AGAIN I MITE HAVE A LOT OF INTELLIGENT THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN RACING TODAY! BUT THE POWERS TO BE HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS AND DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO OLD MEN LIKE ME!:angry-smiley-007:

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Sorry Duke im not trying get off subject, all i was trying to say is that when ur not getting the fans in the stands for whatever reason, the track owners are not going to pay more. But you are still going to have teams and owners spending big money to win. The only thing that makes running a team or a racecar justifiable for the little guy is that he/she just has that absolute passion and love for open wheel racing. And yes tires are one reason that the little guy is dropping out of racing or running a restricted schedule, but tires are not the only reason.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

I heard radio adds on my driving travels for both the Liberty midget week and Kamp Sprint week shows.

But other than that, I don't hear or see much.

I think you need more than to get them in the door once to get someone hooked, I've taken people who never came back. I think the more access to drivers and cars they have the better. I really don't think I became hooked until I met Greg Staab although I had gone for years. ALso you used to be able to get back to the teams pretty quick after racing was over and they stayed around a bit. NOT NOW!

Chuck

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Anyways, back to tires. I think the cost of tires (while still expensive) are trivial as compared to other costs in racing. As far as tire performance, I'd have to say i dont think they are that bad. Im saying that based on how chassis technology has evolved and the setups have varied. And there is also the driver preference, however he/she likes the car setup, and the finesse on and off the throttle.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

It's already been pointed out by several experts that post on here that tire costs are a major problem.

Re: Racing tires! Midgets & sprints!
 

Duke's $55.00 midget tire in 1975 is equivalent to spending $209 today due to inflation. I think you stated you are buying tires for $160 now. If so how is that a bad deal?


It is if the 209 dollar tire lasts 5 races and the 160 dollar tire lasts one