Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
and the tracks will continue to keep closing............

So, what tracks have closed exclusively blaming FLO? That's an honest question. I don't profess to know everything. If you know what tracks closed DUE to FLO, list them. I guess bad management, poor promotions, operations, local car counts, and expenses don't play into your reply. Just FLO. ???

I watch parts of the shootout, most of the chili bowl, all usac sprints and silver crown races on FLO. There’s a ton I don’t watch obviously….that said they’re a long way from a price that would make me reconsider. In fact, I’d probably pay the annual membership just for chili bowl.

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by Grocery Guy:
So, what tracks have closed exclusively blaming FLO? That's an honest question. I don't profess to know everything. If you know what tracks closed DUE to FLO, list them. I guess bad management, poor promotions, operations, local car counts, and expenses don't play into your reply. Just FLO. ???

I don't profess to know facts about everything and I'm probably wrong on a lot of stuff.
Gas City Now Gone
THAT several times
Bloomington four promoters in ten years?
Burg.
PRP who still had LUCAS and All star races this year with FLO but lost DTWC.

Take your pick. No, Not all of it's from FLO. But it's not helping. at least at current royalty payments. I got no clue what the real numbers are for Royalties to the tracks. But they hold the event, The sanction operates it and the racers are the reason the viewers watch. Kevin Miller in his 2023 Banquet speech gave some numbers such as 50k viewers per USAC Race 2hrs 27 minutes timestamp https://www.floracing.com/events/114...aying=11628088
And almost 150k for the BC39 Almost 374 million total views for the season.

I also don't know what the royalty is. But I was told by two promoters that they almost never made a profit and often lost on Local shows and the only way they could do local shows was selling track and class sponsorships. That they're specials (Both mostly USAC) is what made promoting and operating worthwhile.

Don K of Perris said they paid 1000 per race and that he was losing 400-600 attendees per FLO shown event. This led to most of the other USAC/CRA tracks kicking FLO out If a tracks losing 11,000 worth of attendance in a event how does that make it possible to operate? That's just gate. Not concessions, souvenirs, parking (Which perris charges)

Other series and tracks are dropping flo. Anderson, 500 Sprint tour and others.

Im sure it cost flo a bit to put a two man crew and announcer at all the races I don't know what it is. But whats fair compensation to the tracks? Put it dollars and cents terms. Flo gets 50% cost, tracks and sanctions the other 50%?

If a USAC Race has 50k viewers does 20Cents a view sound fair to the track?

IDK, It's mind boggling and I know it's the future, Right now it's a slowly sinking one because In my mind, Most of this money is going to races just for flo and not spread among what made flo successful in the first place.

I was told by a former promoter that they thought racing would come down to a couple of dozen tracks. Mostly all owned by the sanctions and that each sanction would lease the others tracks to hold events.

As I said, Im probably wrong on some of it, What I know I'm not wrong on is Im seeing many tracks that regularly had two to four thousand in the stands almost every week, Had 30plus car counts every week, Now many are gone or run very limited special events only and only a top Sprint or LM class most bi weekly for those running weekly..

I can sit here any race nite and watch people posting pictures on facebook of them watching two or three races at the same time on two or three TV's or watching on their decks. The tracks and the racers are the one's that suffer. Without the gate or fair compensation. They will cease to exist.

Been watching racing or over 55yrs, My childhood racers racer just passed (Wilkerson) I don't post this stuff to boost my ego. I post it because I care. Less tracks will mean less memories for others. It was always a family affair until recently. Still got to watch midget week at Burg (But there were 50K watching on FLO) with Dad last year (Two of the few who saw it in person) It kept me out of trouble in my teens and twenties watching or working on race cars and it's one of the few in person sports or activities I still enjoy today at 60

Visit in person if you can, Good, bad or so so, it's always a memory you can share.
I blame a lot of things, The cost of everythngs gone up and the gate haven't matched it. But Flo is one of them. If it's taking away from the front gate because people are watching it rather than attending. It's not FLO that's hurting. It's the tracks.

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by TQ97:
I watch parts of the shootout, most of the chili bowl, all usac sprints and silver crown races on FLO. There’s a ton I don’t watch obviously….that said they’re a long way from a price that would make me reconsider. In fact, I’d probably pay the annual membership just for chili bowl.

Remember when we paid a hundred just to watch everything up to the C mains and he C's B's and A were not included?

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

"Other series and tracks are dropping flo. Anderson, 500 Sprint tour and others"

Maybe Flo dropped them? :16

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by Grocery Guy:
So, what tracks have closed exclusively blaming FLO? That's an honest question. I don't profess to know everything. If you know what tracks closed DUE to FLO, list them. I guess bad management, poor promotions, operations, local car counts, and expenses don't play into your reply. Just FLO. ???

Why don't you and Stevensville Mike tell us all HOW MUCH FLO PAYS THE TRACKS for the streaming rights? Because that is rally capitalism, having to pay for broadcast rights to an event.

NASCAR has deals with TV networks, then makes sure the tracks get a piece of the pie.
Some sanctioning bodies have a deal with FLO, and I have yet to have one promoter tell me that they get a piece of that pie.

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by B99:
Why don't you and Stevensville Mike tell us all HOW MUCH FLO PAYS THE TRACKS for the streaming rights? Because that is rally capitalism, having to pay for broadcast rights to an event.

NASCAR has deals with TV networks, then makes sure the tracks get a piece of the pie.
Some sanctioning bodies have a deal with FLO, and I have yet to have one promoter tell me that they get a piece of that pie.

I have no idea what Flo pays the tracks.

This discussion came up quite a few years ago and we batted back and forth is Flo good for our sport or bad for our sport.

It is good for me for I can sit here and watch things without going to the track. Like buying off of Amazon or eBay without going to the store.

It is bad for the track for I am not going there and buying a ticket. Like not going to the store and buying off of Amazon or eBay.

Choose your side, '99. I think Flo has the leverage and the tracks will eventually take the bath. But hypocritically speaking, I enjoy watching Flo.

Still a good price. I can remember paying $75 for 3 day shows many times. Dirtv and some others don't have many races for your $ If u watch a lot of races on flo it is a great deal. Less than a dollar a show.

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by B99:
Why don't you and Stevensville Mike tell us all HOW MUCH FLO PAYS THE TRACKS for the streaming rights? Because that is rally capitalism, having to pay for broadcast rights to an event.

NASCAR has deals with TV networks, then makes sure the tracks get a piece of the pie.
Some sanctioning bodies have a deal with FLO, and I have yet to have one promoter tell me that they get a piece of that pie.

Why do I have to tell the world how much FLO pays the tracks? I go to races every week. I asked a simple question on what tracks FLO closed BY THEMSELVES. Gas City closed by FLO? Come on. How many races at Gas City were on FLO, besides USAC? Gas City suffered when Jerry left. Terre Haute, ask the fair board. How about some improvements at TH. Let's hope Bloomington and the new owners make simple improvements like lights and new speakers. Credit Paragon for investing in the future. How many young people are at home watching FLO? How many tracks has Dirt Vision closed?

Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
and the tracks will continue to keep closing............

I get tired of this argument.
The tracks don't close because of Flo and DV.

Lets take a look here in Indiana at our own case study, Gas City, since it is the latest track to fade away. The only time Gas City was on Flo was when USAC came to town. Stands, pits, and parking lots were full during those shows.

Tracks need to look at streaming as an opportunity. If every time a national series comes to town and a good show is put on then maybe a few extra people may show up to a weekly show to come check the track out in person. Or maybe they will come to the next national series show in person because the last program was exciting.

I am at the track every weekend possible. When I can't be at the track, I like to watch USAC on Flo and occasionally High Limit. Some times I am at the track and still watch USAC at another track on my phone from the pits when I can.

I also will occasionally watch NARC stuff when I am up too late. That isn't robbing the track of a paying fan, because I am not in California, but if I do make it out there and have a free night and am close enough to a track I might check out a NARC show because I have seen the tracks and am familiar with some of the cars/drivers because of Flo.

Justin Fiedler of Dirtrackr has discussed this off and on the past few years.
"People have three options when it comes to consuming dirt racing. They can either go to the track, they can watch it online, or they can do nothing. If for whatever reason they first option doesn't happen, either through distance, cost, or anything else - if you give track and series people the choice would you rather those fans not at the track watched online or didn't consume the sport at all? To me the answer seems pretty clear; I'd rather they were doing absolutely anything to be involved versus nothing at all."
I've included a link to the video so you can watch his discussion further.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOtO...nnel=DIRTRACKR