[sprinter268]

I was talking to one of the ARDC guys at the Chili Bowl and he told me about this. The guy was talking like it was a good thing and said that the 155TST that was running with the club was dominating. I didn't pay much attention to him because I thought there was no way that they would limit a 155 TST Esslinger more than a 161XT plus the guy didn't sound like he had his facts straight. There has to be more to this story. Could you imagine if USAC would come out with this rule?

"Attention Car Owners:

As discussed at the Spring 2011 General Meeting, in attempt to prolong engine life and preserve the level of competition in ARDC, the Board of Governors has agreed that the following RPM limits will be enforced in 2012:

All pushrod engines (166ci): 8500 RPM
All Overhead Cam engines (155ci): 9500 RPM

Please note that 2012 is the final year in which Esslinger’s “TST Head” will be legal. Starting in 2013, the 155 Esslinger will only be legal with the “ST Head,” making the XT, TXT, and TST heads illegal. It also important to recognize that OHC engines (whether iron block or aluminum block) may not exceed 155ci."

[c47]

sounds like the guy had his facts straight.....except for the statement about "dominating"
and if you knew anything about ardc and WHY they make rules like that, you would understand.
and yeah.....maybe usac's midget program would be a lot stronger if they DID make that rule.......

[Gene Franckowiak]

I just bought a midget and parked my sprint car to race with ARDC as they are dedicated to keeping racing affordable. USAC has killed Indy, Silver Crown, Midgets..........I always notice too, the guys who are really into not changing the rules, allowing costs to go up.....don't own a car or have any investment in the sport. It would be interesting to see how they would think if they owned a car or wanted their kid to race.

[sprinter268]

Wait a minute. OK I might be a little ignorant to ARDC but tell me that they have done something to limit the spending on the Chevy's that they are most likely trying to protect. What about the other push rod motors? Toyota? Mopar? What is keeping someone from spending $40000 on a Chevy? Sounds like they are just singling out Esslinger. It is not like a 155TST is $30000, a XT might be and I would understand outlawing them. I can not see a TST head putting out the HP an XT does, a 155 for that matter. I would like to see how they determined 9500 as the limit. Did they do dyno runs? I am not against rules that prevent over spending. I am going to have to do some research to check costs but I would bet you could buy a 155TST cheaper that most new Chevys, Toyotas, Mopars. Just seems like they are fighting the wrong battle. Isn't Buckwalter to be the dominate one in ARDC and doesn't he run a Don Ott Chevy. The same Chevy that can keep up with our best 161XTs. Just seems odd.

[billw]

looks like someone just hit the nail on the head

[Gene Franckowiak]

Well.......you guys have all the answers but ARDC has over 30 races booked and averages more cars that USAC.....sometimes I see they have twice as many cars as USAC....so with that being said... I would think what ARDC is doing is working. We are a bunch of guys who want to keep racing affordable. You USAC types have run most of the midget guys out of business.......don't worry about ARDC...they are fine, if I were you guys, i'd worry about the USAC midgets.....they're vanishing,

I just bought a couple of Gaerte -12 midget engines and paid less for two engines than I could buy one of those economical pieces I would need to run USAC........really guys......you need to spend your time discussing how to stop USAC from really killing the midget division because ARDC will be just fine....I am confident of that.

[c47]

Originally Posted by sprinter268 Wait a minute. OK I might be a little ignorant to ARDC but tell me that they have done something to limit the spending on the Chevy's that they are most likely trying to protect. What about the other push rod motors? Toyota? Mopar? What is keeping someone from spending $40000 on a Chevy? Sounds like they are just singling out Esslinger. It is not like a 155TST is $30000, a XT might be and I would understand outlawing them. I can not see a TST head putting out the HP an XT does, a 155 for that matter. I would like to see how they determined 9500 as the limit. Did they do dyno runs? I am not against rules that prevent over spending. I am going to have to do some research to check costs but I would bet you could buy a 155TST cheaper that most new Chevys, Toyotas, Mopars. Just seems like they are fighting the wrong battle. Isn't Buckwalter to be the dominate one in ARDC and doesn't he run a Don Ott Chevy. The same Chevy that can keep up with our best 161XTs. Just seems odd.

most of the motors that currently run with ardc became available when all the other groups allowed the esslinger in its current form. one guy gets one and runs good, thus obsoleting all the affordable push rod engines......and they pop up all over the classifieds at real good prices.
wanna run a toyota or mopar? bring it! there are/were hawks and mopars that run with the club but they really didnt run away with anything.
and as far as buckwalters "161 killer chevy".....thats his usac and chili bowl motor. the motor he runs with the club probably dynos 40-50 hp less and more importantly, it lasts because its enough power to win with steve driving it.
the couple 155 slingers that run with the club are being run by guys that already won races with whatever they had in the car before....so its not like they became instant heros by changing over to a slinger.
the club allowed the slingers because they always have been able to run with the club. they are just fine tuning the playing field by making the 2 that are out there now change the heads to the st head.

oh....yeah......buckwalters first midget was a stealth with a 151 esslinger. he won rookie of the year and a few features his first season with that combo.....so its not like the esslinger just showed up in ardc competition.

ps.....welcome back gene.

[wobbler]

Can anybody inform me what the difference is between a TST head and and and ST head. Other than Ti valves i thought they were the same head?? Perhaps I am wrong?

[darnall]

THe thing that has always impressed me about ARDC is that they continue to have full fields in spite of some of the tracks they run on....isn't over half the schedule on half miles or big 3/8 miles?...you would think that would be the opposite of what you wanted to keep midget motors alive but like mentioned above, it's working very very well.

PowrI does just the opposite...lots of little tracks with basically wide open motor rules...and they thrive as well...but in reality half the cars at a PowrI show really have no chance of winning over the 10-15 big teams with multiple fresh slingers or Toyotas.. Don't get me wrong, I am not at all griping about PowrI because there are quite a few smaller teams that can win races with them, and obviously they are doing something right because their shows and car counts are usually stellar....

But I wonder what would happen if somebody blended the ideas of both series.....a short track only series in the middle of a strong racing area...a series where the 12 head Geartes or Pontiacs or the older Fontanas ruled the roost....

[c47]

Originally Posted by darnall THe thing that has always impressed me about ARDC is that they continue to have full fields in spite of some of the tracks they run on....isn't over half the schedule on half miles or big 3/8 miles?...you would think that would be the opposite of what you wanted to keep midget motors alive but like mentioned above, it's working very very well. PowrI does just the opposite...lots of little tracks with basically wide open motor rules...and they thrive as well...but in reality half the cars at a PowrI show really have no chance of winning over the 10-15 big teams with multiple fresh slingers or Toyotas.. Don't get me wrong, I am not at all griping about PowrI because there are quite a few smaller teams that can win races with them, and obviously they are doing something right because their shows and car counts are usually stellar.... But I wonder what would happen if somebody blended the ideas of both series.....a short track only series in the middle of a strong racing area...a series where the 12 head Geartes or Pontiacs or the older Fontanas ruled the roost....

the easiest way to explain this is the sheer amount of tracks and classes running in the pa/nj/ny area. and each class is competition for the promoters money and bookings.
and....if you go to the sprint tracks, its a sprint car crowd.....everything else is just filler to them.....same with the modified tracks.
its not that ardc really wants to be on the bigger tracks, its more that the bigger tracks happen to want ardc to race there and ya gotta fill out the schedule.......
but you get the club out on a slick, small track that they belong on and it does even out all the motors and puts it back in the drivers hands (and feet)