Interesting topic going on on FB for lightning sprints.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nation...528778?sk=wall

They would probably get more hits on "IOW". Sounds like a couple of guys wishing they could make the 1000cc Sprint world perfect. By the time they are done they will have a 250 page rule book that makes sense to no one. The best way to keep racing less expensive is to keep the rule book short.

There is also only so many 1000 cc motors out there, when everybody has to have one that will make them more expensive and harder to find. The 600 and 750 and even 1200 and 1400 cc motors work well in these cars. We either need a class or a way to handicap these motors into use to keep the sport in-expensive.

The guy up in "Canada" who invented the name "lightning Sprint" also chose 750cc motors instead of 1000 or 1200 cc motors. If you Ebay for 750cc motors they are cheap because nobody wants them the same holds true for 1200 and 1400 cc motors. The person who figures out how to put all of these motors together and make a competive class will have really done something. The reason we raced 600 cc motors back in the 80's and 90's is they were a lot cheaper than the all out 1200cc motors. Then a guy invented the sidewinder and made the cost of 600cc motors go up. So we went to 1000cc motors. Now they make a 1000cc sidewinders so we had better be looking for another motor pretty soon.

Not sure how much intrest this has. Lots of views on here, few comments on FB I will throw in my 2cents in.

1. Motor: stock 1000cc, no non oem parts added or taken out internally, no material added or taken off cases and head. Gas or Alky weight 925#

2. Motor: Any motor over1000cc or any mod's Gas or Alky 975#

3. Safety: Bladder must be used, approved head and neck restraint system must be used.
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You know,,,,,, it still amazes me that someone who has nothing to add to a topic wants to jump in. If you have nothing to add DONT. There are plenty of other topics on here you MITE be qualified to respond to Jim

Some newer motors have balance shafts in them. These things are blown motors waiting to happen. Our motors are making almost 200 HP stock right off the bike, the next 20 HP is going to cost you 10 grand that would be $500.00 per HP. I dont know about you but it's a job hooking up my 200 HP right now.

If I was rich I would spend my money on Chassis, Tires, and Shocks in that order. If you wan't to spend another $10,000.00 in your motor go right a head we have been beating these guys for years. If you exit the turn 5mph faster than the other guy you will probably be 10 mph faster than him going into the next turn. If you want to see why the other guy is faster just clock his time in the turn that is usually where he makes his time. Most of this cheating people see is usually all in "The set up of the car" and drivers ability to stay hooked up.

Any time you make a motor rule it is probably going cost some one more money. Probably the best motor rule is stock apearing on the outside.

We need to spend more time helping the new guy's out and getting them up to speed more quickly. No body wants to be an also ran.
"We" keep on racing because we enjoy it and we know we can run up front at any given race. If a new racer doesn't see some success they usually quit and we lost another racer.

Keep the rules simple, don't try to keep the rich guy out, and help the newer people along the best you can. If you want to handicap do it with weight and by all means "HAVE FUN"

By the way "racerJIM" we do it with a whole lot less. How can we take a little old 200 hp motor and run with a 350 hp motor in the same kind of car?
We do it with "CHAIN and SPROCKETS". I think the Indy 500 was even won by a chain drive car once or twice. The HP loss of the drive shaft and rear end gears eat up about that much horsepower. WE just so high tec I can't stand it.

I went back to check on "racerjim2". This guy can say anything he likes about race cars and it ok by me. For anyone wanting to study the true history of our sport this guy has "the" web site. GOOGLE
"Jimmy's old time racing photos" . Jim if you are ever around where we are racing our "1000cc sprint" I would sure like to meet you and maybe try to convince you that a race car doesn't realy need a driveshaft.


DAD
DAD'S MUFFLER SHOP #37 1000cc Sprint
ps. I used to work with ol Roy Robbins

Jim has THE BEST site on the net when it comes to racing history and nostalgia...he even had one of my old "SKEETER CARS" from the '60-'70s on there

]http://jimmiesoldtimeracing.mywowbb.com/

I don't think anyone is looking for a "250 page" rule book nor should there be one required. Common sense rules. I think this whole thing was generated to standardize weights and get this fuel situation "understood" and under control. Are all groups rules the same. Hell no. Could they be? Maybe? Let's start out only talking the 1000cc class/motors. Grandfather out the larger existing motors over time and by weight allowances. Basic chassis rules and safety rules could easily be agreed to. This weight and fuel situation is what needs to be addressed for standardization. Tire rules could boil down to a simple durometer check after the race is over. Check it after the heats and the feature. Maybe mandate the same tire for both races unless it is damaged and then replaced with the approval of the race director? If a group has a tire deal going with a manufacturer, that can be addressed locally and anyone going there will be on their own to comply but a "suggested" minimum tire durometer is a good start. Now we have the issue of alky versus gas. Somehow, it has been determined that alky is has as unfair advantage. Obviously, I disagree if you read the posts on the facebook discussion. I was simply asking for reasoning that puts unjust amounts of weight on alky cars. I have yet to see anyone produce documented information that validates this. A produced unbaised dyno test shows a 3-4 hp gain at certain rpm ranges. Is that enough to warrant the amount of weight some groups are trying to add? The idea that alky is undermined "to reduce costs" has been debunked repeatedly. While the initial cost is minor ($350-$750 one time investment) it is not that much more expensive than the gas guys buying aftermarket power commanders and elaborate radiators and fans. I would just like to see some standardizations on fuel and reasoning behind it.

Weight.........keep it simple. One weight for either fuel provided it is that 1000cc motor rule we are all trying to work toward. Some racers are running midget style cars while some are running "specific built" cars for this class. Obviously those cars are going to be slightly lighter and mainly........cheaper. They are just as safe especially since here in the midwest, we run on 3/8 miles or less. Usually 1/4 miles. Anyway...to each his own. The 925# minimum weight (winged) worked for years in various groups. Personally......I get aggrevated when I see the 600's faster than our class because we are adding so much weight to our cars. How much we need to slow these cars down to see how many racers we can push toward that 600 class? Or any other class for that matter? I haven't noticed any other class out there that runs a mixture of gas and alky cars differentiating weights to compensate for the type of fuel.....why this class?

Motors...........Stock appearing sounds convienent but I think we all know.......that can get expensive. Most of us have a clue what can get spent INSIDE a motor. Tech is an ugly, ugly word but if you want to control costs, maybe box stock is the way to go? Already have heard of a gas motor that has about $7000 added to it internally coupled with an aftermarket ignition/fuel system. So we all know there probably are quite a few motors out there with something in between that and stock "costs" already.

I am passionate about this class since I have been involved since 1986 and one thing I am EXTREMELY thankful for........The group I run with, Midwest Lightning Sprints, has stuck by their guns and maintained reasonable and fair rules for all. I just don't want to deal with this gas/alky cluster f&#% here. Besides..........Years ago, there was a National Organization (National Outlaw Minisprint Association) that headed this class in the right direction and helped maintain some degree of sanity. No one expects this to be to a way to control "local" racing but it's more for the big races throughout the year that has the potential to draw some travelers. Like National races or "special races" at pre and post season so everyone know what they are driving into. That is if the economy lets any of us actually travel........