This engine combo is nothing new to me and my family we have been running this engine in varied combination's for the last 17 or 18 years. We have always used a steel block out of a Ford Pinto or a Ford ranger. We started with a steel head and changed to an aluminum head. For the money we have we had a lot of success. I have for years believed that midget racing has priced itself out of business. Now I'm sure they have. At last estimate we were building our engine for around $10,000 to $12,000 dollars ready to run. That is with us letting a machine shop do the prep and us assembling the engine. Now someone wants to charge you $22,000 dollars for the same basic set up. Go figure it's no wonder midget racing is dead not dieing dead.

You can go buy a good used sprint car for $22,000 and go racing 3 nights a week in Indiana. Why would you spend that on a engine to run a handful of races a year. Don't get me wrong I love midget racing but quit shooting yourself in the head and saying your making things cheaper.

If racers would learn to do some things for themselves and not rely on someone else to do the work for you you can race for less. Assemble your own engine learn how to set up your own car, for that matter learn how to work on your car and quit paying someone.

Okay I'm done ranting now feel free to beat me up.

Id rather see them drop $22k into a Honda B18 non Vtec engine.

More parts available from more sources, and ask the Swanson brothers - you can go fast with a Japanese engine.

I had to wonder the same thing. The theme of the press release was to reduce costs which is a good thing. Publishing a price of $22,000... isn't that what the current "cheap" version of the Esslinger costs already? Something is wrong with the picture. Maybe the press release just did not explain in simple terms how this is going to work. IDK. I don't see people lining up for this. If a published price was between 10-12K, that would maybe get the attention of a lot of people. But, on the other hand, you can go out and buy a good used midget engine these days for less than $10,000, even in the 6-8K range. If the current top of the line big buck engines are still going to compete... uh..... I just don't see how this new formula is going to further midget racing. IDK.

Something that would really be earth shaking would be to announce that tires can be bought for $50-60. Trailer tires ( buy for $50- $70) are about the same size as a midget tire and midget tires cost 3 times as much. ***.

Four things need to happen for midget racing to revive, IMO:

1. The midget organizations need to come together and come up with a formula engine that costs around $10,000 using OEM parts that can be bought at any parts store and announce that the formula with begin in 2012. Everything current would be illegal at that point. The cost of the proposed engine is not far off from what many pay for a rebuild. For example, I have an engine in my garage with a rebuild bill of sale for $7600.

2. Come up with a plan for 2012 to run a combo car only. This can be done.

3. Stop the nonsense with the tire costs. Reduce the price of tires to around $50-70.

4. Stop charging midget owners and drivers to entertain the race fans, including pit passes and entry fees. This is a totally rediculous practice that needs to come to an end.

I like this development. Before you guys all decide that it represents Midget armegeddon, the way I read it is;

$22,000.00 is the MAXIMUM amount that can be charged for an engine. Think about it - right now, there IS NO maximum. These guys are putting a lid on cost. This is not a bad first step IMO. I do believe there is more to be done, but I also believe these boys are aware of that....

For the guy who is moaning about why more guys don't build their own engines, you have hit the nail on the head my friend. Right now, today, there isn't a midget group in the country that won't let you build your own engine, which as you say, can be done for between 12-15k for many clubs. So why dont we have a zillion guys doing that right now? There can be no argument that we just don't have enough guys willing to do this to keep midget racing going. If we did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. So therefore, as a minimum, we need to develop ANOTHER way to get ADDITIONAL people into the game. The truth is, in 2010, not very many people build their own engines anymore. Certainly, not enough to keep Midget racing healthy.

We are taking a close look at this USSA thing. We think we have an engine that can be competitive - perhaps with a few tweaks. Our price for a brand new engine from air cleaner to muffler is $11,000 - exactly HALF of the USSA maximum. And, most guys will get about 100 races out of this engine before rebuild. Right now we are mostly just racing them right in with traditional midgets - we won a midget race in Medford Oegon with one on Saturday. We also of course have the new ASCS program, and now it looks like the USSA format will be a good match as well.

Competitive racing. Low cost. Great reliability. Some of you guys need to cheer up a little.

I follow the "maximum price" thing, up to the point where little Billy pays $22 for his engine and little Tommy pays $22 for his engine "on the deal". Tommy has the better parts, and little Billy has a boat anchor. My point is this: sooner or later $22 is going to buy more or less engine than it did in the beginning.

I would be more ok with a sealed Ecotec type engine as an alternative, but it still takes engine builders out of the game.

Sorry I don't have THE answer, but I am curious if anyone else can follow my line of thinking here.
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Don,
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Esslinger ST currently available for around 17 K? My buddy Dave Thurston has one,he put 35 races on it, sent it down to be freshened, has won a couple of features out here and would likely have won more were it not for some non motor related bad luck. Want something a little cheaper? edpersh has a Fontana on the classifieds for I believe $3850.00 and it's a good motor. I sold it along with my Edmunds Midget to Toby Alfrey and he beat Chris Hettinger out of a Main first night out, then finished 3rd in a U$AC regional race. Used motors are available all over and it's usually not hard to find out the history before you buy.
Tires, ahhhh, the Elephant in the room. Several years back a certain high ranking Western States official told me flat out that "Dirt is Dead" Without saying who this is it would not suprise me if he is on the Hunt....for pavement cars right now. IMHO, if Pavement Midget racing is to prosper something MAJOR MUST BE DONE concerning the cost and repeatability of tires. Best of luck with that one.... As a side note, it seems that the most succsesfull associations are Dirt only. Might be something there.
Combo cars seem like a good idea. I was on the BCRA board in '01-'02 and brought up the subject as something to look at down the road. It was knocked down like a bowling pin. It didn't help that the President and his buddys all had dedicated Pavement Cars sooooo..... (lots of that in this sport huh) BCRA is now headed in that direction but they may figure out that they need to go back to dirt and RUN LESS EVENTS before that happens.
Where you and I differ is that I am TOTALY opposed to banning all existing motors. These teams have far to much money in their bullets to knock them out for the cost of a postage stamp. IF, and I do mean IF the answer is to detune these motors why not start by restricting the airflow? You can run an Esslinger with the IRS. Ya just gotta choke ,em down to 1". It would take some time and effort but couldn,t it be done? Make no mistake, National Midgets,360 and 410 Sprints are an ELITE FORM OF MOTORSPORTS. Joe lunchbox need not apply. One more sidenote. Yes, Midget Racing is going through some tough times but so are most other classes.
how many tracks to you go to where there are 4-5
divisions and maybe 1 if any b-mains? It cost the same for everyone to get there and getting in free sounds like a good idea but I will defend a prmoters right to make money. They work very hard, spend long hours so we have a place to play. I'll be moving back there soon and hope to meet you somewhere along the trail. Good Luck if you run this week.

That ST Esslinger possibly could be for less money than $22,000 but apparently that is what they are going to get for this series. The engine prices I have heard recently for an low end Esslinger that is competitive but yet "cheap" is around $22-23. I don't know of anyone running the cheapest Esslinger available. Maybe someone can clear up the exact price for us. Regardless, I'm still standing by my proposal that the engines cost no more than $10-12,000 considering the purse that is offered.

Regarding banning of current engines: Go back and read what I have to say about rebuild costs. Let's assume that you must rebuild the engine every 15 races. I have a fresh Mopar engine in my garage that has a bill of sale of $7600 for a rebuild that took place on the West Coast before I bought it. Nothing special was done to the engine for the price. A standard rebuild. That's $2400 short of a new engine according to my proposal. And BTW, this is the same money figure that is proposed by Kevin Miller of USAC.. this was heard on the D.O. radio show several months ago. If a new engine is available for $10-12, it would make sense to discard the current engine for the long run. AND LOOK AT ALL THE MONEY TEAMS THAT GET FREE ENGINES!!! YEAH... FREE ENGINES. Somewhere along the line the terminal cancer that is eating away at midget racing has to be stopped or we will never move forward. That is a fact. THE MIDGET RACING COMMUNITY IS IN MAJOR DENIAL RIGHT NOW! Yes, there will always be the 10-12 zillionaires following the National Trail, but if you look at the trend of midget racing in general across the country there are more deals going down than up. For example, the Wisconsin group has been in decline for 10 years now. did they see the end coming along the way? I guess not. I was totally blasted on the internet a couple years back for predicting what they are going through. If they would have listened instead of continuing on their merry way, maybe things would be different.

Regarding the pit pass and entry fees: I am hearing MORE AND MORE from owners and drivers at the tracks talking and OBJECTING to the scam that takes place at the back gate. Would somebody please step up and tell me what promoter has ever publicly defended this practice and gave some hard evidence of why they have to do it? I guess not!!! So all you people that are left defending some promoter doing this... you are speculating with no evidence. There are several promoters that publicly post on here and I have never read one word why this practice continues.

Short track - you make a good point about "special deal" engines. I got a fair amount of questioning about that in the focus days- guys accusing me of building a "special motor" for one team or another, and it always made me laugh out loud because in a sealed, "one engine" program like the focus there is no incentive for a builder to do a "special". After all, who would I be trying to beat? Myself????

But, as soon as you introduce more than one engine supplier, the possibility of the "special engine" becomes real. I do believe there is a way to control that and I do believe that the USSA guys have that figured out. By requiring each manufacturer to seal his engine, they are requiring that manufacturer to prove that each engine is the same - to be caught building a "special" at that point would amount to undeniable cheating on the part of the builder and should subject that builder to being shot on site by Eric Bunn.

KEN - good to hear from you on here. As always, words of wisdom.

MR. MOORE -always a pleasure. I get what you are saying about costs, particularly cost of entry for the actors putting on the show. However, we must keep in mind that the current business model employed by racetracks really requires that this fee be collected. We can't just change this without coming up with another way for the operator to be properly compensated - if we did, we'd just have more tracks closing than we already do. At the risk of being just another A-hole with an opinion, allow me to float an idea;

Car counts are low - we need more cars at the track. Costs are high - especially for those poor souls toiling at the back of the pack who don't get squat for their effort. Most of us agree that these guys are the ones who are having the hardest time just making it to the track each week, so how about this... Don't change anything about the payout or the cost of entry except for one thing - take the bottom finishing 8 cars, or 25% of the field, whichever is greater - and have a drawing among those cars. Pick maybe 3-5 cars out in this drawing, and give those guys free entry to the next race.

This idea will help keep cars coming to the track - something we really need right now - and by doing the drawing it will prevent anyone who is having a bad night from just throwing in the towel for a free pass next week.

OK I don't usually stray from my regular schtik but that one just kind of came to me....

1. What is the business model that demands a promoter to charge car owners and drivers for entry and pit passes? I haven't seen it. WHERE'S IT AT? Do they pass out all the goodies on how to do it at a promoter's convention? If you have a copy of this business model, please post it for all to see. Since you're defending this practice, give us the cold facts.

2. Whatever happened to "promoters" actually promoting a race? I'm reading page after page on this message board about the lack of promotion for all kinds of races across the country. Seems to me the easy way out for a promoter is just live off the back gate and run to the bank. That's the business model today big time. There is no union for car owners or drivers to group together and stand up against some of these practices and the promoters know it.

3. I still have not read one word on any message board regarding why they continue this practice with some kind of evidence to back it up.