The End

openwheelKT · 2/12/08, 9:07 AM

Like I said before, wait, and you can have it all for free. Merger talk has been going on for 12 years. This time it's a done deal one way or another.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...or-bankruptcy/

Charles Nungester · 2/12/08, 9:13 AM

I thought they filed two years ago. I thought some tracks were witholding dates until Champ Car paid money owed. Guess Kokoven bailed em out then.

If I was Tony George, Id say we'll seriously look into some of your dates and probably agree to take on four or five of them (Potentially successful markets) but as far as Schedualing IRL existing takes priority.

Chuck, Who agrees with King Richard Petty, Without hometown hero's in the sport intrest will be lost. AND WAS!

interpreter66 · 2/12/08, 9:20 AM

:applaud:

Mud Packer · 2/12/08, 10:28 AM

Don't tell me that Kalkhoven & Forsythe ran out of money?:rolling:O: Arrogance finally did them in.:thumb

Great Scott · 2/12/08, 10:43 AM

RIP Champ Car!

2/12/08, 10:45 AM

I'm glad that it looks as though Indy Cars will only have one series.

My question though, what was solved in major open wheel racing as a result of the split?

I am a huge fan of the IRL and I think the racing is fantastic. However there are still few grassroots open wheel guys getting rides, there is one engine supplier, a formulated car, more road courses, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original goal of the IRL to run on ovals, lower the costs, and give the Dave Darlands and Jay Drakes of the world a chance to run Indy Cars?

I'm all for unification of open wheel racing, but what did the split solve?

Bruce Harrison · 2/12/08, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses

I'm glad that it looks as though Indy Cars will only have one series.

My question though, what was solved in major open wheel racing as a result of the split?

I am a huge fan of the IRL and I think the racing is fantastic. However there are still few grassroots open wheel guys getting rides, there is one engine supplier, a formulated car, more road courses, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original goal of the IRL to run on ovals, lower the costs, and give the Dave Darlands and Jay Drakes of the world a chance to run Indy Cars?

I'm all for unification of open wheel racing, but what did the split solve?

Agreed. Even when this shakes out (1 way or another) the current state of Indy-type open wheel racing is no different than it was in 1995, especially when it comes to short-track drivers getting a legitimate shot at a ride...:thumbsdown:

Charles Nungester · 2/12/08, 10:55 AM

What Champ car fans? The majority IMHO realized without INDY. They had nothing

2/12/08, 11:20 AM

[QUOTE=aussiemidgetfan;28960]-Drop St Petersburg, Infineon Raceway & Watkins Glen because nobody attends them.
-

aussiemidget - were you one of the 40,000 that were in the stands for the St. Pete Grand Prix last year? Or were you one of the few thousand
general admissions? - There were twice as many as when CART ran that race....How many were at Road America last time the Champ cars ran there? 25k if they were lucky? yes the Champ Cars are tricker...they just didnt promote the events like the IRL does...and this is the result....their leadership and direction was seriously flawed....now there will be multiple manufactures and corporate support back into openwheel....just not overnight.

openwheelKT · 2/12/08, 11:47 AM

Nothing was gained by the split as we can see. The thought was to get back to what the Indy 500 used to be. A series could then be built around that. Obviously it didn’t work so here we are. I do think it had a chance to work if there had been one series.

Somewhere along the line, IndyCar owners started to think guys coming from grassroots open wheel cars couldn’t drive their cars so they stopped hiring them. History shows that to be false, but it didn’t matter. Foyt won on road courses, not because he was a great road racer, but because he was a great race car driver, period. You had to be a karting guy or a foreigner that had IndyCar style car experience. Owners didn’t want to spend the time to have a driver learn anymore. Popularity then started going down. Sponsors then started going away. Owners then had to hire some guys based on money they brought, not talent (almost every single Champ Car seat is like that now, IRL not as much but still happening)

I liked the old CART schedule personally. I do think an American series should be no more than 70/30 oval/road course split. Overall, Americans like oval racing better, that’s just a fact. Road racing is fine if done at the right track and not an entire race schedule. The only race I would keep for sure is Long Beach. I MIGHT consider some run on a permanent road course. The rest are garbage. There is NO WAY somebody goes to a street course race to see “racing” because there is none. It’s just a party for people to get drink and watch a parade. Sorry, but that’s all it is. The markets Champ Car was trying to get into shows that they knew their philosophy does not sell in America. Period. Sorry, but the problem with Champ Car WAS on track. Boring parades, drivers nobody in the US knows, all road racing, and 80% of races ran outside the US is not a good series to Americans. If that is supposed to be the main fan base, that doesn’t work.

I do agree Michigan needs to return. I’d like to see the ladder series be named Indy Lights. I always liked that name.

Take the top five USAC drivers in stockcars, add them to Indy Cars, they matter again. If not, everything stays the same on a national level. Unless you are a real fan, you don’t care. For oval racing, the IRL’s racing product is as good as any on the top level. The general racing population doesn’t care because of drivers in the seats. Unless that changes (which I don’t see it doing) it won’t change the popularity. The need of one series has to happen, but without some sort of a change in drivers it pretty much stays the same.

2/12/08, 9:13 AM	#2 Re: The End
Charles Nungester Senior Member Race Count This Year: 6 Race Count Last Year: 14 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 22,012	I thought they filed two years ago. I thought some tracks were witholding dates until Champ Car paid money owed. Guess Kokoven bailed em out then. If I was Tony George, Id say we'll seriously look into some of your dates and probably agree to take on four or five of them (Potentially successful markets) but as far as Schedualing IRL existing takes priority. Chuck, Who agrees with King Richard Petty, Without hometown hero's in the sport intrest will be lost. AND WAS! __________________ Charles Nungester

2/12/08, 10:55 AM	#8 Re: The End
Charles Nungester Senior Member Race Count This Year: 6 Race Count Last Year: 14 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 22,012	What Champ car fans? The majority IMHO realized without INDY. They had nothing __________________ Charles Nungester

2/12/08, 9:07 AM	#1 The End
openwheelKT Senior Member Race Count Last Year: 73 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 742	Like I said before, wait, and you can have it all for free. Merger talk has been going on for 12 years. This time it's a done deal one way or another. http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...or-bankruptcy/

2/12/08, 9:20 AM	#3 Re: The End
interpreter66 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,382	:applaud:

2/12/08, 10:28 AM	#4 Re: The End
Mud Packer Senior Member Race Count Last Year: 59 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 5,093	Don't tell me that Kalkhoven & Forsythe ran out of money?:rolling:O: Arrogance finally did them in.:thumb

2/12/08, 10:43 AM	#5 Re: The End
Great Scott Senior Member Race Count This Year: 48 Race Count Last Year: 63 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 740	RIP Champ Car!

2/12/08, 10:45 AM	#6 Re: The End
Moses Posts: n/a	I'm glad that it looks as though Indy Cars will only have one series. My question though, what was solved in major open wheel racing as a result of the split? I am a huge fan of the IRL and I think the racing is fantastic. However there are still few grassroots open wheel guys getting rides, there is one engine supplier, a formulated car, more road courses, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original goal of the IRL to run on ovals, lower the costs, and give the Dave Darlands and Jay Drakes of the world a chance to run Indy Cars? I'm all for unification of open wheel racing, but what did the split solve?

2/12/08, 11:20 AM	#9 Re: The End
rt9906 Posts: n/a	[QUOTE=aussiemidgetfan;28960]-Drop St Petersburg, Infineon Raceway & Watkins Glen because nobody attends them. - aussiemidget - were you one of the 40,000 that were in the stands for the St. Pete Grand Prix last year? Or were you one of the few thousand general admissions? - There were twice as many as when CART ran that race....How many were at Road America last time the Champ cars ran there? 25k if they were lucky? yes the Champ Cars are tricker...they just didnt promote the events like the IRL does...and this is the result....their leadership and direction was seriously flawed....now there will be multiple manufactures and corporate support back into openwheel....just not overnight.

2/12/08, 11:47 AM	#10 Re: The End
openwheelKT Senior Member Race Count Last Year: 73 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 742	Nothing was gained by the split as we can see. The thought was to get back to what the Indy 500 used to be. A series could then be built around that. Obviously it didn’t work so here we are. I do think it had a chance to work if there had been one series. Somewhere along the line, IndyCar owners started to think guys coming from grassroots open wheel cars couldn’t drive their cars so they stopped hiring them. History shows that to be false, but it didn’t matter. Foyt won on road courses, not because he was a great road racer, but because he was a great race car driver, period. You had to be a karting guy or a foreigner that had IndyCar style car experience. Owners didn’t want to spend the time to have a driver learn anymore. Popularity then started going down. Sponsors then started going away. Owners then had to hire some guys based on money they brought, not talent (almost every single Champ Car seat is like that now, IRL not as much but still happening) I liked the old CART schedule personally. I do think an American series should be no more than 70/30 oval/road course split. Overall, Americans like oval racing better, that’s just a fact. Road racing is fine if done at the right track and not an entire race schedule. The only race I would keep for sure is Long Beach. I MIGHT consider some run on a permanent road course. The rest are garbage. There is NO WAY somebody goes to a street course race to see “racing” because there is none. It’s just a party for people to get drink and watch a parade. Sorry, but that’s all it is. The markets Champ Car was trying to get into shows that they knew their philosophy does not sell in America. Period. Sorry, but the problem with Champ Car WAS on track. Boring parades, drivers nobody in the US knows, all road racing, and 80% of races ran outside the US is not a good series to Americans. If that is supposed to be the main fan base, that doesn’t work. I do agree Michigan needs to return. I’d like to see the ladder series be named Indy Lights. I always liked that name. Take the top five USAC drivers in stockcars, add them to Indy Cars, they matter again. If not, everything stays the same on a national level. Unless you are a real fan, you don’t care. For oval racing, the IRL’s racing product is as good as any on the top level. The general racing population doesn’t care because of drivers in the seats. Unless that changes (which I don’t see it doing) it won’t change the popularity. The need of one series has to happen, but without some sort of a change in drivers it pretty much stays the same.