[VSneader2]

Well I was sitting here being really bored and decided to see what it would cost to run 3 divisions with what I would consider a decent payout compared to what tracks are paying now. If you can see though all the numbers, do you think something like this would work? Or would the track go broke in a heart beat? I have no idea what the tracks around here average for weekly attendance, nor how many people each driver brings to the pits with him. So I ran the numbers based on the driver and 2 crew members and that's it. Also keep in mind I did not include operating cost for the track as I don't know what those would be either. The below is just Total Purse and attendance needed to break even on the purse. Like I said I was bored.

Feature 
 Finish  	Sprints   	Modified	Street Stock

   1	       $2,000    	$1,000          $700
   2	       $1,000    	$600		$400
   3	       $900		$500		$350
   4	       $800		$400		$300
   5	       $700		$350		$250
   6	       $600		$300		$175
   7	       $500		$275		$150
   8	       $400		$250		$125
   9	       $350		$200		$100
   10	       $300		$150		$80
   11	       $300		$150		$80
   12	       $300		$150		$80
   13         $300		$150		$80
   14	       $300		$150		$80
   15	       $300		$150		$80		
   16	       $300		$150		$80		
   17	       $300		$150		$80		
   18	       $300		$150		$80		
   19	       $300		$150		$80		
   20	       $300		$150		$80		

Total 
Purse	     $10,550		$5,525    	$3,430	=	$19,505

Consi (non-transferred cars, all must take green)							

   1          $150		$100		$30 to start		
   2	       $125		$80				
   3	       $100		$70				
   4          $75               $50
on back					
							
Total payout based on all cars starting consi (30 total cars in each class)	

               $900		$600		$300	=        $1,800

				                 Total purse	$21,305
							
Total Cars: 30 in each class						
Pit crew per car:	2	
(270 total people in the pits)
					
Back Gate Fee: 	$30 						
Total From Back Gate:	$8,100 						
							
                                        Purse minus Back Gate   $13,205						
							
Front Gate Fee   	People needed to break even 						
      $13 	                      1016		        $13,208		
      $15                            881			$13,215		
      $20 	                      661			$13,220

Sorry it is in a box, it was the only way i could get the formatting correct.

[sprinter25]

You'll never get a track to run at your hypothetical "break-even" numbers. You've forgetten to include the obvious - the track acquisition costs, as well as the costs for upkeep, personnel, advertising, insurance, equipment, etc....Most likely if you double the purse number, you'll approach what it costs to run a race track and break even.....And I can't think of anyone who'd do this for FREE....IMO, a track has to turn a profit for the promoter, or he'll be gone...most track owners/promoters run a race track as their secondary/tertiary business

[thebus79h]

Originally Posted by sprinter25 You'll never get a track to run at your hypothetical "break-even" numbers. You've forgetten to include the obvious - the track acquisition costs, as well as the costs for upkeep, personnel, advertising, insurance, equipment, etc....Most likely if you double the purse number, you'll approach what it costs to run a race track and break even.....And I can't think of anyone who'd do this for FREE....IMO, a track has to turn a profit for the promoter, or he'll be gone...most track owners/promoters run a race track as their secondary/tertiary business

This could potentially work on the basis that a promotor actually promoted and didn't just sit on his ass and say "We are racin, come on over!"

The thing is you wouldn't have to pay the Stocks that much money and they'd still show up, pay the sprints what you propose, and you'd be set. The way most insurance works is you pay per person that comes thru the pit gate, and I've heard that you can pay as little as 3 dollars a person, up to 8 dollars a person and maybe more. But you're also not counting in concession stand income, along with 50/50 income, along with local sponsorships for each race. You find a title sponsor for each division that gives a thousand dollars or so for a points fund, and you'll build more cars that way. A lot of the micro sprint tracks used to just have "Mac's chesseburger stand night" or whatever it may be, and make some extra money that way.

[VSneader2]

Originally Posted by sprinter25 You'll never get a track to run at your hypothetical "break-even" numbers. You've forgetten to include the obvious - the track acquisition costs, as well as the costs for upkeep, personnel, advertising, insurance, equipment, etc....Most likely if you double the purse number, you'll approach what it costs to run a race track and break even.....And I can't think of anyone who'd do this for FREE....IMO, a track has to turn a profit for the promoter, or he'll be gone...most track owners/promoters run a race track as their secondary/tertiary business

Yes I know I did not include operating cost, as I stated I do not even know what those numbers would be. I was just seeing what the numbers at the front and back gates had to be to break even on the purse alone. I know no one in there right mind would do this for free. Like I said I was bored and just running some numbers. It was a nice eye opener for sure.

[Motormasher]

That would be a GREAT payout for "special" event or a 2 day show "Nationals event".

It would be neat to see a track (probably like Terre Haute even though Haubstadt could host it too) have a special 2 day show where you had to run the 1st day to qualify for the 2nd day.

That would be alot of racing!!!

[Chris Nunn]

Ill say it now. Modifieds and Super Stocks run for 700 to win at most tracks
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[Dick Monahan]

Originally Posted by thebus79h ... The way most insurance works is you pay per person that comes thru the pit gate, and I've heard that you can pay as little as 3 dollars a person, up to 8 dollars a person and maybe more. ...

Unless things have changed since I was buying insurance, that is not how it works. The insurance companies charge a flat price for the show for the competitor insurance (essentially accident/death insurance for people who sign in at the back gate), and a second flat price for the general liability insurance (spectators and anyone else). A race that includes open-wheel cars costs more than one that doesn't, but I was surprised to find out that non-wing shows didn't cost more than winged shows. This info might be out of date, so there must be someone on here who knows the current situation.

[thebus79h]

Originally Posted by Dick Monahan Unless things have changed since I was buying insurance, that is not how it works. The insurance companies charge a flat price for the show for the competitor insurance (essentially accident/death insurance for people who sign in at the back gate), and a second flat price for the general liability insurance (spectators and anyone else). A race that includes open-wheel cars costs more than one that doesn't, but I was surprised to find out that non-wing shows didn't cost more than winged shows. This info might be out of date, so there must be someone on here who knows the current situation.

When promoting a race last year at Camden Raceway for a micro sprint, that's how it was for us. But there is another track in the area that does it the way you describe where you pay for a certain number of races, and it covers up to a certain number of cars, and you pay a flat rate. You can still do it the way you describe, but in the cases that I've been involved with that's how it was explained to me by the track owner.

[Jonr]

I remember a promoter commenting on a thread like this before. He stated that the insurance was a set price, and the type of cars did have a bearing on the cost (open wheel vs stock cars). The other thing that was interesting was the sunk cost for the rain outs.

His comments was that unless you cancel a day or two in advance all rain outs are a money loser. You have all the time and money spent working the track. In order to guarantee that he had all of the hot dogs, hamburgers, breads, etc at the track that he had to place his order earlier in the week. Once the order was placed, he had to accept the order on race day. Some of the items he could hold till the next week, some of it he had to dispose of. It did not matter to the vendor that it was raining. He had an order to deliver.

The other sunk cost was the insurance of a rain out. While I forget the numbers, it was something like he had to pay 25% of the cost just to open the pit gates. 50% payout if the cars packed the track, and 100% if there were any green flag laps.

Two more major cost are your utility bill (electricity for the lights, fuel for all of the track vehicles) and your tax bill. While I have no idea how much the tax bill would be. I do know that you have both the taxes on the revenue (the business) and also the property taxes. I was at a track once where the sheriffs were sent out to on race night to collect the back due property taxes. I belive that the promoter had to pay the tax bill for the track owner in order to keep the races going.

The last major cost that you are leaving out is the hired help. While most of the positions are mimimum wage and some are volunteer. There are some that are high cost. Security, ambulance service, fire service, flagger, pit stewart, etc.

I also agree that the whole operation has to make money. It is not worth the time or the headaches to the promoter unless he is making money on the deal. Also, if it is making money, then there is a chance for improvements to the facility. If the guy is only breaking even, he is not going to paint the place, work on the toilets, improve the lighting, and do all of the other things that seperates a decent track from a great track.