[TQ29m]

Not looking for a fight, or to stir, just a question for my own, what is the deal with these cars, no car count, is it like other factions, all good, but to much cost, and no pay out, kinda sounds like it might be fun, we all like midgets, don't we, has the cost just gotten so hi, it isn't even budgetable? I know, I loved racing, but there comes a time, I raced for the fun of it, the thrill, out of my own pocket, I felt like I did what I accomplished, met new people, went to a lot of places I probably would never have gone, and had a good time, never put any numbers on any paper, just went and had fun, then old age caught up with me, I can still remember a lot of good times, and good friends, and that was my goal, my wife enjoyed it too, or at least she acted like it, and that made it just that much better, but when I see car counts less than 10, it makes me wonder, wherein lies the problem. Thanks

[Blackduce]

Check out 600cc midgets. Peru, Logansport and many others. Great car counts.
Classes non wing. wing, and youth. Many greats today have come from here. Great family values. Purses of special races were $8,000.to $10,000. They race the weekend before the Chilli Bowl. And heard car counts of 750 or more.

Lynn

[jjones752]

Not sure where you're getting the numbers but our car counts were consistently in the mid-20's last season and there are several new teams joining in this year. The last 3-4 years have seen steady growth and excellent competition.

[Pitdad]

I don't consider this question picking a fight. It's a worthwhile discussion.

I will question your assessment of low car counts. Badger adopted a 2.4L production engine platform several years ago and has seen steady increases in car counts. Got rained out last Sunday at LaSalle, but there was speculation that we could have seen 30 cars or more. Part of that is the location being within striking distance of the IMRA guys in central Illinois & Iowa and the Badger guys in Wisconsin, northern Illinois (and Indiana), but it would have been a reasonable assumption. When we weren't competing for dates last year, we had upper 20s showing up at Sycamore and putting on a very exciting, competitive show. We've got several new cars being built for the year, so even on a competing weekend, we expect 26-28.

[TQ29m]

I'm referring to the ones reported on this website over the last couple of months, I don't recall now where they were, but they were on Iow, I'm sure I wasn't the only one reading them, yes, I know the other groups are doing well, like I said, I didn't know, and was just asking a question. Thanks

[Pitdad]

Originally Posted by Blackduce Check out 600cc midgets. Peru, Logansport and many others. Great car counts. Classes non wing. wing, and youth. Many greats today have come from here. Great family values. Purses of special races were $8,000.to $10,000. They race the weekend before the Chilli Bowl. And heard car counts of 750 or more. Lynn

So the difference with 600s is, you need a track size that's conducive to 600s. Circus City and US 24 are 1/8th mile and 1/6th mile, respectively, and that's perfect for micros. You don't find those everywhere. We were trying to race them on 1/4, 1/3rd, even a 3/8th tracks and those are just too big. Plus, when you're on those sized tracks, you're the companion show to big cars, and that doesn't make a good formula either. Micros on a sprint car rutted track are a danger. You just end up tearing up equipment. Circus City and US 24 are micro only shows, just like we had back in Oklahoma at Port City and I-44. That's one of the main reasons why it works for those two tracks.

Midgets, even D2 midgets work on the larger tracks. While we spend considerably more on our D2 than we did on the micro, we still don't spend anywhere near what a national midget or sprint cost. Even a 305 sprint would be more costly than a D2. We're not in it for the money. We weren't when we ran a micro. It was and is about personal satisfaction and the thrill of competition. Same thing with the midget. There are those that are using it as a stepping stone to bigger things, and that's fine too.

Clubs that are struggling with D2 car counts need to keep working at it. Keep the rules consistent year over year until a base of local engine builders is established. These aren't junkyard motors. They're race built, just not with billet, knife-edged cranks and ported heads. Then you need access to chassis and set up knowledge. That's hard to pull from thin air if there isn't a history of midget racing in the area. Midget chassis and components used to be all specialized and custom fabricated, which meant you must have a builder locally. Spike, Triple X, Boss, etc. are becoming mainstream enough that you can have access everywhere.

Beyond that, it's up to the promotion and operation to grow the car count. If shows are run poorly, track prep is bad and promotion is shoddy, then it doesn't matter what class you're running.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by Pitdad I don't consider this question picking a fight. It's a worthwhile discussion. I will question your assessment of low car counts. Badger adopted a 2.4L production engine platform several years ago and has seen steady increases in car counts. Got rained out last Sunday at LaSalle, but there was speculation that we could have seen 30 cars or more. Part of that is the location being within striking distance of the IMRA guys in central Illinois & Iowa and the Badger guys in Wisconsin, northern Illinois (and Indiana), but it would have been a reasonable assumption. When we weren't competing for dates last year, we had upper 20s showing up at Sycamore and putting on a very exciting, competitive show. We've got several new cars being built for the year, so even on a competing weekend, we expect 26-28.

The best part about Badger and ARDC is that they are not D2. Badger/ARDC legal cars are capable of running in the top 10 and on a really good night the top 5 in a POWRi or USAC show for a fraction of the cost. This was evidenced by a top 5 at the Tom Knowles Memorial with POWRi for Tyler Baran a couple years ago. As well as Chase McDermand at Jacksonville last year (might have been 6th in the feature but I think he actually won a heat). The D2 cars cost just as much as Badger/ARDC but then don't run nearly as well. Not to mention when you label yourself a lesser class, you can't ask for near the money you need. Badger/ARDC pay $1,000 to win every race whereas D2 pays $300 and on a good night pays $500 to win. I realize its not about the money but yikes. You're worth what you're willing to race for I guess.

This is probably why Badger has grown at a much better clip than D2 has. Better performance, better pay more competition and you can be competitive at a USAC & POWRI race.